2020 Census Citizenship question

TexasFilly
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#376

Post by TexasFilly »



The above tweet has a link to a very good article on Talking Points Memo regarding John Gore's false declarations in the Census case :
The apparent memory problems of a former Trump Justice Department appointee have continued to haunt the department since the official left the administration.

Last week, in two separate cases, the Justice Department had to tell courts that the former official, John Gore, had issues remembering key communications related to the disputes in front of the judges.

One of those cases is the lawsuit that was brought against the census citizenship question, where the ACLU is seeking sanctions against the administration for allegedly withholding evidence in the case. The Justice Department in a Friday filing said that Gore had “no recollection” of texts sent to him that were related to the failed push to add the question to the census.

And in a separate case, arising from the now-disbanded Trump voter fraud commission, the Justice Department had to “correct” a declaration previously filed by Gore. According to the DOJ’s new filing, Gore now no longer remembers when he first came into contact with a GOP operative who was seeking that the commission investigate alleged voter fraud in Chicago. Gore also didn’t remember an email thread with another DOJ official and the White House referencing the operative.
Senators Whitehouse and Leahy want this referred to DOJ's Office of Professional Responsibility. No doubt the response will be: we have no jurisdiction as he doesn't work here anymore.

So, where did John Gore go? Jones, Day of course! Here's part of his bio page on Jones, Day's website:
Throughout his career in private practice and as a senior U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) official, John Gore delivers results for clients in high-profile litigation, investigations, and crisis matters. John's broad range of litigation experience includes 10 arguments in federal appellate courts and numerous arguments in federal and state trial courts across the country. He also has successfully advised high-ranking government officials facing legal, political, and public relations crises.

Prior to rejoining Jones Day in 2019, John served in the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) as the Acting Assistant Attorney General and Principal Deputy Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Rights Division. As the acting head of one of DOJ's most significant litigating components, John led the Department's civil and criminal civil rights investigations and enforcement actions nationwide. During his tenure, John launched several successful law enforcement initiatives, including a record-setting initiative to combat housing discrimination and initiatives to eliminate employment discrimination, to protect religious liberty, and to uphold First Amendment freedoms. Moreover, under John's leadership, the Civil Rights Division prosecuted several high-profile hate crimes and contributed to DOJ's record-setting numbers of human trafficking prosecutions. John also advised the Attorney General and other high-ranking officials on civil rights issues, and he testified twice before Congress on DOJ's civil rights enforcement efforts.

John has particular experience litigating complex questions of constitutional and statutory interpretation. He has briefed and argued novel legal questions under the Voting Rights Act and Americans with Disabilities Act, presented arguments and a witness before three-judge district courts in voting rights cases, and briefed numerous cases in the United States Supreme Court.
https://www.jonesday.com/en/lawyers/g/j ... b=overview

:sick:
I love the poorly educated!!!

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Notorial Dissent
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#377

Post by Notorial Dissent »

Only the best. :sick:
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Sterngard Friegen
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#378

Post by Sterngard Friegen »

Sounds like John Gore has a lot of experience at appellate theater. BFG. Forgive me, but real lawyering is before juries and occasionally before trial court judges.

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fierceredpanda
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#379

Post by fierceredpanda »

Can I just add here that Jones Day seems hell-bent on giving the Skadden Crime Family a run for their money for the (much-coveted, I am sure) honorific of Sleaziest Law Firm on Earth?
"There's no play here. There's no angle. There's no champagne room. I'm not a miracle worker, I'm a janitor. The math on this is simple; the smaller the mess, the easier it is for me to clean up." -Michael Clayton


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fierceredpanda
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#380

Post by fierceredpanda »

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:24 pm
Sounds like John Gore has a lot of experience at appellate theater. BFG. Forgive me, but real lawyering is before juries and occasionally before trial court judges.
Agreed, but so much of law school is dedicated to appellate courts and proceedings that I think Biglaw just has this tunnel-vision focus on higher courts.

Also, it's probably to be expected when the attitude of pressure groups like the Federalist Society is (more or less) the following: "Who cares what happens at the trial level when you can just cram the courts of appeal full of ideologues who will gleefully undo whatever was done below that we don't like?"

Come to think of it, I was talking with a client the other day about certain release regimes in county jails in my area. They are totally within the discretion of each county's sheriff's department as administrator, and not subject to judicial process. Basically, you can get let out of jail early on a GPS ankle monitor if you pay up (natch) and meet certain qualifying conditions. I was telling my client that we lawyers (and judges too) don't like to think about or acknowledge the existence of things over which we exercise no control, so we just pretend they don't exist. Sometimes I think a lot of lawyers (specifically, the class of lawyers who get paid obscene amounts to sit in an office all day moving someone else's money from column A to column B) apply that reasoning to juries. We can't control it, so why bother thinking about it?
"There's no play here. There's no angle. There's no champagne room. I'm not a miracle worker, I'm a janitor. The math on this is simple; the smaller the mess, the easier it is for me to clean up." -Michael Clayton


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Sterngard Friegen
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#381

Post by Sterngard Friegen »

The super power of excellent lawyers is that they can control (or at least influence) juries.

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Addie
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#382

Post by Addie »

The Hill
Judge rejects DOJ effort to delay House lawsuit against Barr, Ross

A federal judge on Friday rejected the Trump administration's request to delay a lawsuit against Attorney General William Barr and Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross for defying congressional subpoenas as part of a probe into officials' handling of the 2020 census.

U.S. District Judge Randolph Moss in Washington, D.C., said in a status conference that with the census approaching he recognizes the urgency of the case from the House Oversight and Reform Committee and has set an expedited schedule for both sides to brief the court. ...

The schedule that Moss set for the case would have both sides briefing and arguing before the court by the end of January.

The Democratic-controlled Oversight panel sued Barr and Ross late last month, accusing them of continuing to defy document requests in the months since the House voted to hold the two Cabinet members in contempt over the census dispute.

Douglas Letter, the House's general counsel, told the court that the committee has an urgent need to get the documents in order to decide whether it needs to legislate in order to protect the census against further political interference.

Democrats have weighed taking legislative steps after the Supreme Court blocked the administration's effort to add a citizenship question to next year's surveys.

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SLQ
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#383

Post by SLQ »

I just checked on the status of the sanctions motion against Wilbur Ross, et al, for concealing evidence regarding the motives behind the census immigration question. There are some updates, so I'll post them here (leaving out attorney withdrawals, etc.):
675 Dec 13, 2019
ORDER granting 674 Letter Motion for Leave to File Letter Responding to Plaintiffs' December 3, 2019, Letters. Defendants' letter to Plaintiffs' counsel dated November 25, 2019, stated that they were "still investigating... to determine whether any other documents were similarly inadvertently omittedfrom production." ECF No. [669-1], at 2. Defendants' letter of yesterday reports that Defendants have been "unable to discover the cause" of why the documents disclosed on November 25th were not disclosed earlier - whether it was "human error or a technical snafu," ECF No. 674, at 4 - but says nothing about the status of the investigation into whether there are "any other documents" that "were similarly inadvertently omitted from production." No later than December 19, 2019, Defendants shall file a letter indicating the status of that investigation, including but not limited to when they expect the investigation (and any further production of previously undisclosed documents) to be completed. (HEREBY ORDERED by Judge Jesse M. Furman)(Text Only Order) (Furman, Jesse) (Entered: 12/13/2019)
676 Dec 19, 2019
LETTER addressed to Judge Jesse M. Furman from James J. Gilligan, Counsel for Defendants dated December 19, 2019 re: State of New York v. U.S. Dep't of Commerce, No. 18-cv-2921. Document filed by Bureau of the Census, Steven Dillingham, Wilbur L. Ross, Jr., United States Department of Commerce.(Gilligan, James) (Entered: 12/19/2019)
I'm omitting the letter because this next order pretty much covers it:
677 Dec 20, 2019
MEMO ENDORSEMENT on re: 676 Letter State of New York v. U.S. Dep't of Commerce, No. 18-cv-2921, filed by Wilbur L. Ross, Jr., United States Department of Commerce, Bureau of the Census, Steven Dillingham. ENDORSEMENT: The Court is inclined to believe that, under the circumstances (including but not limited to the pending motion for sanctions), Defendants should be required to complete their review of the new documents more quickly than they have proposed. Indeed, the Court would think that counsel could use software to immediately de-duplicate the documents and then swiftly review any unique documents without the need to even use search terms (which is part of what caused these problems in the first place). Counsel shall confer about these matters, and about whether there are "search parameters... that would allow for a more targeted review of the documents in question and more expedited production of pertinent information, if any," and submit a joint letter regarding next steps (and any other relevant issues) no later than December 27, 2019. SO ORDERED. (Signed by Judge Jesse M. Furman on 12/20/19) (yv) (Entered: 12/20/2019)
They both submitted their letters required by order at 677, and the court ruled:
682 Jan 2, 2020
MEMO ENDORSEMENT on re: 679 Letter, filed by Wilbur L. Ross, Jr., United States Department of Commerce, Bureau of the Census, Steven Dillingham. ENDORSEMENT: Defendants shall review and produce any documents (or portions of documents) that are responsive to Plaintiffs' discovery requests served during the merits phase of the litigation according to the following schedule: No later than January 10, 2020, Defendants shall review the e-mails obtained from the six priority custodians and produce any non-privileged messages (or portions of messages). No later than January 24, 2020, Defendants shall review the attachments to the foregoing e-mails and produce any nonprivileged documents (or portions of documents). No later than February 7, 2020, Defendants shall review all remaining e-mails and produce any non-privileged messages (or portions of messages). No later than February 21, 2020, Defendants shall review all other documents and produce any non-privileged documents (or portions of documents). The parties shall meet and confer after each round of production and advise the Court if they believe that the foregoing schedule should be modified in any way. Further, within two days of the final production, Defendants shall file a sworn declaration confirming that the production has been completed. Within one week thereafter, the parties shall file letters indicating their views on what bearing, if any, the newly produced documents have with respect to the pending motion for sanctions. The Court recognizes that the foregoing schedule is more aggressive than the one Defendants proposed and that it will impose burdens on the Department of Justice. But Defendants have no one but themselves to blame since the documents at issue should have been produced a year and a half ago. SO ORDERED. (Signed by Judge Jesse M. Furman on 1/2/2020) (jca) (Entered: 01/02/2020)
An agreed request to modifiy the schedule:
685 Feb 3, 2020
LETTER addressed to Judge Jesse M. Furman from James J. Gilligan, Counsel for Defendants dated February 3, 2020 re: Agreed Modification of Production Schedule. Document filed by Bureau of the Census, Steven Dillingham, Wilbur L. Ross, Jr., United States Department of Commerce..(Gilligan, James) (Entered: 02/03/2020)
Here's what they proposed in the letter:
Defendants have completed the productions ordered for January 10 and January 24, 2020.
There are approximately 940 potentially responsive documents remaining. The parties
have met and conferred and have agreed that the remaining productions should be
modified to permit Defendants to review and produce emails at the same time as their
attachments. Based on the experience with the first two productions, Defendants believe
this procedure will be more efficient and will not change the final production date. The
modified schedule would be as follows:

• No later than February 7, 2020, Defendants shall review approximately 450
documents (including both emails and their attachments) and produce the
responsive, nonprivileged material.

• No later than February 21, 2020, Defendants shall review all remaining
documents and produce the responsive, nonprivileged material.
The agreed request was granted:
686 Feb 3, 2020
MEMO ENDORSEMENT on re: 685 Letter, filed by Wilbur L. Ross, Jr., United States Department of Commerce, Bureau of the Census, Steven Dillingham. ENDORSEMENT: SO ORDERED. (Signed by Judge Jesse M. Furman on 2/3/2020) (ks) (Entered: 02/03/2020)
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Kendra
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#384

Post by Kendra »

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/ ... ssion=true
WASHINGTON — The Republican National Committee is sending documents labeled “2020 Congressional District Census” to people in California and across the country just weeks before the start of the official nationwide count of the country’s population.
Critics say the misleading mailers — in envelopes labeled “Do Not Destroy. Official Document” and including a lengthy questionnaire on blue-tinted paper similar to the type used by the real census — are designed to confuse people and possibly lower the response rate when the count begins in mid-March.

The top of the mailer states it is “commissioned by the Republican Party.” In smaller print on the second page, below a request for donations, is a notice that it is paid for by the Republican National Committee. Included in the envelope is a four-page letter from National Committee Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel asking for donations to the party and a promise to support Trump in 2020.

Unlike the official census form, the RNC survey is largely made up of political questions, such as whether the respondent supports using military force against Iran, thinks race relations in the country are getting worse and believes “political correctness” has gotten out of hand.

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pipistrelle
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#385

Post by pipistrelle »

Informed Delivery says I’m getting a census form today. Official Business, fine $200. Does that mean it’s not a Republican trick?

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Sugar Magnolia
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#386

Post by Sugar Magnolia »

pipistrelle wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:30 am
Informed Delivery says I’m getting a census form today. Official Business, fine $200. Does that mean it’s not a Republican trick?
Yes. We got ours in the mail yesterday. The real one. It's not actually a census form though, It's a web link and an ID number to log on with.

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neonzx
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#387

Post by neonzx »

pipistrelle wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:30 am
Informed Delivery says I’m getting a census form today. Official Business, fine $200. Does that mean it’s not a Republican trick?
Informed Delivery. The official census is arriving for me today as well.
Polish_20200313_093958975-110.jpg
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To which Trump replied, Fuck the law. I don't give a fuck about the law. I want my fucking money.

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MN-Skeptic
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#388

Post by MN-Skeptic »

I got my 8-page form yesterday. You have the option of filling out the paper form or going online to enter the information. It's pretty basic - name, do you live here, do you own the house, names of anyone else living here, race, etc. Really nothing we haven't seen before. The form is 8-pages long because each resident is given a page to enter their information. Not a big deal. I went online and completed it yesterday.
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Sugar Magnolia
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#389

Post by Sugar Magnolia »

MN-Skeptic wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:26 am
I got my 8-page form yesterday. You have the option of filling out the paper form or going online to enter the information. It's pretty basic - name, do you live here, do you own the house, names of anyone else living here, race, etc. Really nothing we haven't seen before. The form is 8-pages long because each resident is given a page to enter their information. Not a big deal. I went online and completed it yesterday.
Interesting. We didn't have the option, just the on-line.

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RVInit
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#390

Post by RVInit »

I also received a form that I could fill out. A "main" page, really half a page. And another page front and back per person.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA no question regarding citizenship. :bunny: :bwaha:
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#391

Post by Foggy »

Filled out my census form online this morning. Pretty simple, all they want is birthdays and ethnic origin.



I told them I was Ubuntu. :mrgreen:



Close enough!! :boxing:
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Jeffrey
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#392

Post by Jeffrey »

Lani wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:53 am
There have been comments here about census workers secretly being told to ask about citizenship anyway or cause other problems like reporting discriminatory information. LOL no.

I worked part time for the Census in 2000 and 2010 to earn some extra money. Basically, you apply on line and then you are informed about where to take a test. The test is written at a 5th grade level. If you can read the questions and the simple maps, you are hired. (Shockingly, a lot of people flunk.) There's a day or two for training - which should only take half a day. Then you get some forms, addresses and a clipboard and are released on an unsuspecting neighborhood.
---

Other than learning that you have some really scary neighbors, it's a nice temporary part time job. Stroll around, chat with people, get a check. I would do it again this time if I had the time and energy.
I got hired for the 2020 census. You get laptops now.

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ZekeB
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#393

Post by ZekeB »

I did mine online last night. The survey asked for my name, DOB, gender, if I owned, rented, etc my home and same about the woman who lives with me. It didn’t ask for my SSN or income. It did ask me to provide my ethnicity (German, English, whatever). We’re getting so diluted anymore that’s becoming an irreverent question. No citizenship questions were asked.
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TexasFilly
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#394

Post by TexasFilly »

ZekeB wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:02 pm
I did mine online last night. The survey asked for my name, DOB, gender, if I owned, rented, etc my home and same about the woman who lives with me. It didn’t ask for my SSN or income. It did ask me to provide my ethnicity (German, English, whatever). We’re getting so diluted anymore that’s becoming an irreverent question. No citizenship questions were asked.
That's exactly what Mr. Filly said he was asked when he filled ours out. He remains confused about his own family's ethnicity so God knows what he put down and who cares anyway? Example: His father was so stupid that he didn't know his own middle name, so after my MIL officially named her first born after his dad she found out they had different middle names! Which is why my husband is not a "Junior" even though his dad called him Junior for 50 years.
I love the poorly educated!!!

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Lani
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#395

Post by Lani »

Jeffrey wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:25 am
Lani wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:53 am
:snippity:
Other than learning that you have some really scary neighbors, it's a nice temporary part time job. Stroll around, chat with people, get a check. I would do it again this time if I had the time and energy.
I got hired for the 2020 census. You get laptops now.
Has it actually happened? After recalling the fun I had - yes, I did have mostly fun - I applied on line and got emails and calls shortly after because this Census would be my 3rd. Scheduled for photo ID and weekend training class. Then a few days later, those were canceled and the ground action was put on hold indefinitely.

And now statewide starting Thursday our state is under much stricter lock down anyway.
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Sterngard Friegen
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#396

Post by Sterngard Friegen »

I did my online response last week. When it asked about where I was from, since my family is from everywhere including northern, eastern, western and southern Europe, and I was born in California (on a U.S. Navy base), I put down "American." That felt about right.

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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#397

Post by Northland10 »

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:16 pm
I did my online response last week. When it asked about where I was from, since my family is from everywhere including northern, eastern, western and southern Europe, and I was born in California (on a U.S. Navy base), I put down "American." That felt about right.
I did mine last week, but I did list my ancestry to demonstrate how I am a mutt. English, German, Scottish, Irish, and I forgot Welsh. Since the last of my family arrived in America around 1810, I suppose American would have been a more appropriate response.
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#398

Post by Somerset »

Northland10 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:21 pm
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:16 pm
I did my online response last week. When it asked about where I was from, since my family is from everywhere including northern, eastern, western and southern Europe, and I was born in California (on a U.S. Navy base), I put down "American." That felt about right.
I did mine last week, but I did list my ancestry to demonstrate how I am a mutt. English, German, Scottish, Irish, and I forgot Welsh. Since the last of my family arrived in America around 1810, I suppose American would have been a more appropriate response.
I wish I'd answered that way. I tried the "mutt" approach, with some clear Lebanese thrown in from my grandfather (interesting that Lebanese is considered Caucasian, rather than "Middle Eastern" which it really is) . Too bad they didn't get into specifics about other nationalities. I think Mrs Somerset can trace her roots all the way back to Chief Lapu-Lapu ;)

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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#399

Post by Jeffrey »

We had training day #1 the week before lockdown. We got called after the lockdown order saying it’s on hold for two weeks but to do the online training anyways. Waiting for the supervisor to call to see if we do the second day of training or when we start.

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bob
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#400

Post by bob »

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:16 pm
I did my online response last week. When it asked about where I was from, since my family is from everywhere including northern, eastern, western and southern Europe, and I was born in California (on a U.S. Navy base), I put down "American." That felt about right.
I put down "African." I mean, good enough for Obama, amirite? :- :towel:
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