Fogbow

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:10 am**

Volkonski wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:30 pm Fast food burger restaurants vary their menus frequently.

He must spend a lot of time studying them.

What do you think he was doing when he should have been reading the PDBs?

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:35 am**

Kendra wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:52 pm

Trump says he brought "Trump water" for the residents of East Palestine, and also "much lesser quality water"
No word if he's tossing them like paper towels.

Trump ice was discontinued about a decade ago.. meanwhile

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:37 am**

I love Aaron Rupar posts!!! Do you follow Rupar or does Titan?

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:47 am**

Holy sh*t. He went to East Palestine, Ohio allegedly to support disaster relief and it turned into him talking about what he did for Big 10 Football. WHO FUCKING CARES?

Yeah, he was in red-neck Ohio and they buy his brand. Not ALL of Ohio is this bad.

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:14 am**

Donald Trump spent four years demolishing rail safety protections at the expense of the health and safety of average Americans. His trip to East Palestine, Ohio today is purely political theatre and a sad attempt to mask his failures as a President. We won’t let him.

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 12:07 pm**

@RonFilipkowski
Maybe instead of handing out Trump Water and buying Big Macs, Trump or his Transportation Secretary could’ve visited the site of ONE of the 4,000+ train derailments during his presidency, or done something like pass an Infrastructure Bill to fix the problem.

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 12:28 pm**

The Trump-repealed regulation that is most often referred to in these discussions is one that required, or would have required, upgraded brakes on rail cars carrying hazardous materials.

To be fair, while no official cause has been determined for the East Palestine wreck, the speculation I have heard is that it was a failed axle/bearing that allowed the axle to shear off, causing the derailment.

Once a railcar leaves the rails, brakes become irrelevant. And the brakes currently used on railcars are perfectly capable of locking the wheels on the train. If the air hoses connecting the cars in the train where to fail, every car in the train would go into "emergency" and lock every wheel on the train.

So, while I don't for a moment doubt that Trump is/was against ALL regulations, regardless of the need or efficacy of those rules, I find it a bit disingenuous to blame Trump for the wreck. OTOH, for him to go to Ohio and talk about himself and football, is ludicrous.

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 2:07 pm**

I think the main reason for blaming the wreck on Trump's relaxation of regulations is because the MAGA have blamed Biden and company for this. However, since this is a private company on its own tracks, the only way Biden could have prevented this (which is also near impossible in only a 2-year timespan anyway) is to create more regulations, which they would scream about.

IIRC, some of the right even stated that Biden was not regulating the private company enough. I look forward to Buttigieg having the department create regulations to which the right will scream that they don't need regulation. They are not serious about any of this but use it only as a way to make noise. Yeah, I know.. Duh.

Trump of course uses it to talk about himself, but if he didn't, we wouldn't recognize him.

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 2:11 pm**

noblepa wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 12:28 pm The Trump-repealed regulation that is most often referred to in these discussions is one that required, or would have required, upgraded brakes on rail cars carrying hazardous materials.

To be fair, while no official cause has been determined for the East Palestine wreck, the speculation I have heard is that it was a failed axle/bearing that allowed the axle to shear off, causing the derailment.

Once a railcar leaves the rails, brakes become irrelevant. And the brakes currently used on railcars are perfectly capable of locking the wheels on the train. If the air hoses connecting the cars in the train where to fail, every car in the train would go into "emergency" and lock every wheel on the train.

So, while I don't for a moment doubt that Trump is/was against ALL regulations, regardless of the need or efficacy of those rules, I find it a bit disingenuous to blame Trump for the wreck. OTOH, for him to go to Ohio and talk about himself and football, is ludicrous.

I don't have the video clip at hand, but it shows railway security cameras recording the train with hot brakes or other hot undercarriage already tens of miles prior to the derailment. The suggestion is that the automatic reporting of hot brakes based on the thermal images while the waggons pass the camera may have malfunctioned, or the train engineers may have ignored the waring. Although my understanding is that the warning also goes to the traffic control center.

ETA

added clip at viewtopic.php?p=176382#p176382

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 2:12 pm**

I heard on Fox today that the derailment and ensuing environment disaster is the fault of Democrats for blocking pipelines, which are the only safe way to move hazardous materials. FWIW.

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 2:18 pm**

raison de arizona wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 2:12 pm I heard on Fox today that the derailment and ensuing environment disaster is the fault of Democrats for blocking pipelines, which are the only safe way to move hazardous materials. FWIW.

Easy go, just send one hazarous chemical product down the line, no cleaning required, followed by the next catastrophic mixture ....

And that is what Americans elect as their representatives

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 2:56 pm**

NEWS: A federal judge has *granted* an effort by ex-FBI officials
@petestrzok
and Lisa Page to depose Donald TRUMP and Chris WRAY for two hours each.

The twist? She wants to know if Joe Biden will assert any privilege over the testimony.

Details TK w
@joshgerstein

The two-hour depositions will be on a "narrow" set of topics that ABJ approved at a sealed hearing today.

Strzok and Page have litigated for years to get these depositions about the way their texts were released and Trump's role in Strzok's ouster.

Edit: Link to story just out: https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/2 ... y-00084220

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 4:15 pm**

raison de arizona wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 2:12 pm I heard on Fox today that the derailment and ensuing environment disaster is the fault of Democrats for blocking pipelines, which are the only safe way to move hazardous materials. FWIW.

They want to spend billions of dollars to build pipelines for every conceivable type of hazardous material? Many of them would need dedicate pipes that carry nothing else, meaning we could conceivably need dozens of pipelines over the same route, each carrying a different material.

And what about solid hazardous materials? Some things just can't be pumped through pipes.

Pipelines work for oil because there is so much of it and it generally goes from point A to point B, not points a-z to points 1-1000. The permutations of pipeline would reach into the millions.

Oh, and pipelines leak.

But then, we know that Fox is only interested in fomenting outrage at Democrats.

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 4:24 pm**

RTH10260 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 2:11 pm
noblepa wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 12:28 pm The Trump-repealed regulation that is most often referred to in these discussions is one that required, or would have required, upgraded brakes on rail cars carrying hazardous materials.

To be fair, while no official cause has been determined for the East Palestine wreck, the speculation I have heard is that it was a failed axle/bearing that allowed the axle to shear off, causing the derailment.

Once a railcar leaves the rails, brakes become irrelevant. And the brakes currently used on railcars are perfectly capable of locking the wheels on the train. If the air hoses connecting the cars in the train where to fail, every car in the train would go into "emergency" and lock every wheel on the train.

So, while I don't for a moment doubt that Trump is/was against ALL regulations, regardless of the need or efficacy of those rules, I find it a bit disingenuous to blame Trump for the wreck. OTOH, for him to go to Ohio and talk about himself and football, is ludicrous.
I don't have the video clip at hand, but it shows railway security cameras recording the train with hot brakes or other hot undercarriage already tens of miles prior to the derailment. The suggestion is that the automatic reporting of hot brakes based on the thermal images while the waggons pass the camera may have malfunctioned, or the train engineers may have ignored the waring. Although my understanding is that the warning also goes to the traffic control center.

ETA

added clip at viewtopic.php?p=176382#p176382

I haven't seen the clip you're referring to, but that is consistent with the diagnosis of a bearing or axle failure. In the old days, they used to call them hotboxes, because the bearings were simple solid bronze or brass pieces that the axle fitted into. There were, literally, oily rags that lubricated them. Sometimes the rags caught fire. Modern cars have all roller bearings, so hotboxes are rare, but they can happen.

A train can be a mile or two long, so the engineer, who is looking forward, can't see a burning axle, even if he looked. And there are no more cabooses.

The film clip in question could have been from an equipment defect detector or some other security camera. I live next to a main NS rail line. There is a detector about a mile down the line. I have a radio that can pick up the RR's transmissions. Every once in a while I hear an automated voice come on the radio and say "Norfolk Southern milepost 200.1. Eastbound, 432 axles. No defects". I don't know if it has video capability or not. I also don't know if the train involved in the wreck had passed such a detector or not.

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 4:30 pm**

noblepa wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 4:15 pm They want to spend billions of dollars to build pipelines for every conceivable type of hazardous material? Many of them would need dedicate pipes that carry nothing else, meaning we could conceivably need dozens of pipelines over the same route, each carrying a different material.

And what about solid hazardous materials? Some things just can't be pumped through pipes.

Pipelines work for oil because there is so much of it and it generally goes from point A to point B, not points a-z to points 1-1000. The permutations of pipeline would reach into the millions.

Oh, and pipelines leak.

But then, we know that Fox is only interested in fomenting outrage at Democrats.

YEP. Pipelines do leak. And the Keystone Pipeline was running from Canada right across the richest growing soil in the USA. And the Keystone Pipeline was not bringing "black gold"... it was going to be garbage sand oil that cannot be refined into petro. Plastics, yeah.

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 4:48 pm**

noblepa wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 12:28 pm Once a railcar leaves the rails, brakes become irrelevant. And the brakes currently used on railcars are perfectly capable of locking the wheels on the train. If the air hoses connecting the cars in the train where to fail, every car in the train would go into "emergency" and lock every wheel on the train.

Not so fast.

The emergency brake "command" is the venting of the brake pipe. This does not propagate instantly, in fact it propagates pretty slowly... so quite a bit of time elapses before the brakes on the cars are the rear of the train start applying. Also, once the wheels lock the braking force is much lower. Railcar brakes on loaded cars usually aren't set to lock (or capable of locking) the wheels for this reason.

Anyawy, all this causes the rear cars to push the cars in front of them, which can cause cars to derail that otherwise wouldn't have. Once these derailed cards are off the track, their brakes are useless (as you noted) - and the cars plow into whatever is in their path. This often ends up e.g. tank cars puncturing each other.

There are at least a few rail accident reports I've read where throwing the train into emergency ended up CAUSING a derailment.

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:41 pm**

In my pre-retirement days we had monthly safety meetings. One of these featured a Union Pacific (the only rail line that serviced our plants east of Houston which is another story) engineer. He explained how little control he had of a train. If he saw a vehicle ahead of him on the tracks all he could do was throw the train into emergency and then get down on the cab floor and hope the vehicle did not contain flammable liquid.

Main line trains need a long distance (miles) to stop. By the time he could see a vehicle on the tracks there was no way not to hit it.

Part of my expertise was in-plant rail systems (which moved one car at a time at 5 miles an hour). Even then there were derailments. Eventually those of us involved with rail operations insisted that all in-plant tracks be rebuilt to main line rail specifications. That solved the problem.

People who have only experienced light commuter trains have no idea of the size or weight of
modern freight cars.

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:54 pm**

Gregg wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:12 pm
humblescribe wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:30 pm
Frater I*I wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:44 pm
Ohhh sure, show White Castles to a guy from the north who's stuck in GA where all we can get is the low rent knock off Krystals....
But...but you have Waffle House!
No, they don't. They have the cheap knock off Huddle House where I swear to Dog if you remove the logo the menu is identical. I honestly thought the first time I went to one that it was the same company with a different DBA in the market for some reason.

Gregg, Sonny Boy and I were in Hotlanta in June 2021 to see the Doyerz play the Braves. We had breakfast at a Waffle House a few blocks from our motel. I regret to state that I tossed the receipt.

We also tried the Waffle House across the Ohio from your very own Queen City on our way to the airport in Covington after we watched the Doyerz wallop the Reds in 2019. I even got moody with Hudy at the game!

I don't think we will tempt fate a third time.

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 6:35 pm**

Volkonski wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:41 pm People who have only experienced light commuter trains have no idea of the size or weight of
modern freight cars.

If you stand nearby when a loaded freight passes, you get an idea. The ground rumbles.

Lots of videos on YouTube of people trying to beat trains and save 5 minutes. Pedestrians, cyclists, drivers. Nuts.

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:14 pm**

Wait, I thought he went to help the people of E. Palestine?

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:22 pm**

Volkonski wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:41 pm In my pre-retirement days we had monthly safety meetings. One of these featured a Union Pacific (the only rail line that serviced our plants east of Houston which is another story) engineer. He explained how little control he had of a train. If he saw a vehicle ahead of him on the tracks all he could do was throw the train into emergency and then get down on the cab floor and hope the vehicle did not contain flammable liquid.

Main line trains need a long distance (miles) to stop. By the time he could see a vehicle on the tracks there was no way not to hit it.

I grew up in a railroad family and the scuttlebutt was that some engineers would NOT put the train in emergency when they saw a car/truck on the tracks. As you say, there was no way the train was not going to hit it and putting a train in emergency almost guarantees a derailment, which as East Palestine shows us, can be catastrophic.

In today's world, however, many trains have "black box" data recorders that would show the brake application. An engineer would probably get in trouble for deliberately failing to put the train in emergency.

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:18 pm**

Kendra wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:14 pm https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/stat ... 4510746624

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/stat ... 8086174721
Wait, I thought he went to help the people of E. Palestine?

He relegated himself to Orly Taitz level, searching the search engines for himself

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:26 pm**

tek wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 4:48 pm
noblepa wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 12:28 pm Once a railcar leaves the rails, brakes become irrelevant. And the brakes currently used on railcars are perfectly capable of locking the wheels on the train. If the air hoses connecting the cars in the train where to fail, every car in the train would go into "emergency" and lock every wheel on the train.
Not so fast.

The emergency brake "command" is the venting of the brake pipe. This does not propagate instantly, in fact it propagates pretty slowly... so quite a bit of time elapses before the brakes on the cars are the rear of the train start applying. Also, once the wheels lock the braking force is much lower. Railcar brakes on loaded cars usually aren't set to lock (or capable of locking) the wheels for this reason.

Anyawy, all this causes the rear cars to push the cars in front of them, which can cause cars to derail that otherwise wouldn't have. Once these derailed cards are off the track, their brakes are useless (as you noted) - and the cars plow into whatever is in their path. This often ends up e.g. tank cars puncturing each other.

There are at least a few rail accident reports I've read where throwing the train into emergency ended up CAUSING a derailment.

There exists a separate braking systems for trains that applies the brakes from the rear of the train forward, but it requires another air line and is expensive so US railways haven't adopted it yet. It's standard on freight trains in Europe.

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:27 pm**

humblescribe wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:54 pm
Gregg wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:12 pm
humblescribe wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:30 pm

But...but you have Waffle House!
No, they don't. They have the cheap knock off Huddle House where I swear to Dog if you remove the logo the menu is identical. I honestly thought the first time I went to one that it was the same company with a different DBA in the market for some reason.
Gregg, Sonny Boy and I were in Hotlanta in June 2021 to see the Doyerz play the Braves. We had breakfast at a Waffle House a few blocks from our motel. I regret to state that I tossed the receipt.

We also tried the Waffle House across the Ohio from your very own Queen City on our way to the airport in Covington after we watched the Doyerz wallop the Reds in 2019. I even got moody with Hudy at the game!

I don't think we will tempt fate a third time.

I was thinking of Florida for some reason. You're right, there is civilized life in Georgia, if you look hard enough.

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2023 3:52 pm**

Gregg wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:26 pm There exists a separate braking systems for trains that applies the brakes from the rear of the train forward, but it requires another air line and is expensive so US railways haven't adopted it yet. It's standard on freight trains in Europe.

There are also "two-way EOTs" (End Of Train devices) that sit in the coupler of the last car, connect to the brake line, and are in radio communication with the locomotive cab.. Well, SUPPOSED to be in communication.. miles-long trains winding through terrain end up causing that communication to fail. Anyway, the EOT relays the brake-pipe pressure to the cab (so the engineer can more detect a separation near the end of the train more quickly), and it can also dump the brake line on command from the cab to cause an emergency braking action to propagate from the rear of the train. Several classes of trains are required to have these, but as noted they often don't work on long trains where they are needed most.

It is kinda like TFG, where the ends of his rants lose connection with the beginnings.

Fogbow

trump (convicted felon, defamer, insurrectionist, contemnor, and rapist - $537M)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)

trump (the former guy)