Fogbow

AOC's chat.

SuzieC wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 9:02 pm https://www.instagram.com/p/C9l41vgOAGj/

AOC's chat.

I'm sorry, but eff sake woman, get to the point. She waffles and apologises to people who "have that opinion" and sidetracks and gaaah. Maybe that style appeals to her voters and the people she is trying to get to, I don't know, but I personally found it maddening. I had to turn it off after 5 minutes of getting more and more frustrated listening to her. She could at least have done the apologising thing once and then continued but she did it over and over.

Ya I think that was the thing that got to me, wasting time with the same thing. If you want to convey a message I don't think was very effective way to talk.

I think she was basically trying to say what I have been saying now and again, that if the donor class and Media class actually thought that Biden could not beat Trump, that they would be pushing for him to stay in the race. Since they realise he can, then they want him gone, and the debate offered an opportunity to push panicky Democrats into it. (Not to mention distract from the fact that Trump had a disastrous night)

But, like I said, I turned it off when she was finally meandering to the point. And I honestly feel I would not be the only one.

Agree. It was way too long, but she imparted some important information.

Foggy wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2024 6:57 am As I understand it, your point is that Biden should drop out with the Democrats having exactly no plan whatsoever and no candy date chosen to replace him. Which means utter chaos at the convention, and a nominee who was too fearful to run against Joe Biden in the primaries and caucuses, but Biden will be forced out against his will and required to campaign for his replacement. Or if Joe stays in the race, he might lose.

Or is there some other point you're making?

More like the latter. [Edit: spelling.] Gosh, I thought saying "Biden is toast" would be pretty clear. I wasn't trying to upset anyone in this community though I figured it might not be a popular opinion. I'm just a humble mountain climber who keeps a keen eye on the weather.

I started this thread before a lot of the professional rats began to bail. Whether Biden remains in the race or not, I reckon he's toast either way.

"How can Trump be defeated?" is a different question, a different thread and I have no influence on global weather. Grab your raincoat is all I'm saying.

I'd be interested to hear AOC's points but I can't find the fast-forward button and I've been shooting video all day. I'm about to start a couple of big corporate gigs where I'll see how they are preparing and I'll be NDA'd. I told one of them they need a staging site the day before Crowdstrike went kaput - and my damn Amazon package got delayed!

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, think ahead. If you want a secondary message, that's all I can give you.

Capisce? Take care.

Oh, and before I disappear again, my tertiary point is genocide is just plain wrong. You may argue that we are not witnessing genocide, or this is justified genocide, or Biden & his cabinet are not complicit in genocide or whatever. [Edit: Or the genocide will get worse with the other guy.]

Go ahead, but if you have no human soul, I am not listening. What we have been witnessing has been buried on this forum, largely ignored, page 8 material. I can understand, it's an unpleasant topic and incongruous with your aims. But the chickens are coming home to roost, this will play into the upcoming election and karma is a bitch, man.

If Donnie wins then it will be worse for a hell of a lotta more people.

The lesser evil of a choice of 2, and at this stage of the campaign you only have a choice of 2 and infighting will get the greater evil elected.

No duh. But I'm not the voting populace, am I? "Buy Coke because it isn't Pepsi" ain't gonna fly. Not for an incumbent. That's how Biden got elected last time. Guess I'm playing Cassandra, aren't I?

No, Cassandra correctly predicted the future, but nobody listened. I have searched your posts for an actual prediction I could read and understand, but no. It's all variations on "we'll see" and "be afraid". To be a Cassandra, your predictions have to be correct. The statement "Biden is toast" is only a correct prediction if he actually drops out of the race, which he shows no signs of doing thus far. But yeah, Biden is toast may yet ripen into a correct prediction one of these fine days, and then you can be a Cassandra.

There's a reason we don't discuss the Israeli behavior in Gaza much, and partly it's because of people who can't allow themselves to use the correct definition of the word genocide. What's happening in Gaza is mass murder, but did you know there are Palestinians outside Gaza who are not being subjected to genocide? No, you did not know that, or you wouldn't have used that word repeatedly.

Language is important.

We all know that Israel is doing mass murder. We have many, many Jews on this forum, and some of them disagree strongly with the government of Israel. And yes, Joe Biden could be doing more to stop the mass murder.

But we had a member who accused another member here of "supporting genocide" because he pointed out some actual facts proving that it isn't really genocide, even though it is mass murder, and then he did his damnedest to try to vandalize the forum before I kicked him out. Lots of people saw that, and maybe it put a damper on further discussion. That's OK, nobody here gets to do what that person did. We treat each other with respect here, and if not ...

So now you know why the mass murder in Gaza by the Israeli government is not a very popular topic here, at least from my viewpoint. Others may have different opinions.

Foggy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 7:18 am There's a reason we don't discuss the Israeli behavior in Gaza much, and partly it's because of people who can't allow themselves to use the correct definition of the word genocide. What's happening in Gaza is mass murder, but did you know there are Palestinians outside Gaza who are not being subjected to genocide? No, you did not know that, or you wouldn't have used that word repeatedly.

Language is important.

We all know that Israel is doing mass murder. We have many, many Jews on this forum, and some of them disagree strongly with the government of Israel. And yes, Joe Biden could be doing more to stop the mass murder.

As a very secular, non-practicing, irreligious Jew who nevertheless can hold in his mind the two separate thoughts firstly that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state; and secondly that no nation-state's government will always act in a moral, ethical, or even rational way in pursuit of its right to exist, and while it can be called out or even sanctioned for such behavior, such behavior does not abrogate the right to exist nor should such sanctions allow that abrogation, I thank you, Foggy, for putting all of the above into words.

I ... am tired of having to disclaim that "not in my name" does not mean "nothing in my name", yanno? Which is why I no longer really speak out on this.

To bring this back around to topical, I'll add: I wish the President were firmer and harder on the edges with Netanyahu, but I also get that he is, in fact, better than the alternative. And I'd rather a President who is capable of learning and nuanced takes than the currently offered alternative. And since no other alternatives have actually been offered, only plans for thinking about how to plan the basic framing of a discussion about planning for an alternative, I think I'll stick with the better of the two known quantities, myself. If that means living with toast, I guess I'm living with toast.

Ben-Prime wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 9:32 am
To bring this back around to topical, I'll add: I wish the President were firmer and harder on the edges with Netanyahu

Wouldn't matter. No one's going to change him.

but I also get that he is, in fact, better than the alternative. And I'd rather a President who is capable of learning and nuanced takes than the currently offered alternative. And since no other alternatives have actually been offered, only plans for thinking about how to plan the basic framing of a discussion about planning for an alternative, I think I'll stick with the better of the two known quantities, myself. If that means living with toast, I guess I'm living with toast.

Lightly buttered.

Foggy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 7:18 am To be a Cassandra, your predictions have to be correct.

While surely those praising (those who caused) Biden's exit are happy, those who opposed Biden based on Gaza aren't going to line up to support Harris. (Or, if not Harris, whichever mainline Democrat is the nominee.)

Because the administration's policy isn't going to change, and the Democratic nominee also will run on fundamentally supporting Israel (with, at most, perhaps some minor tinkering on the edges).

this is a really shitty post title

I'm just saying

sad-cafe wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 2:32 pm this is a really shitty post title

I'm just saying

Agreed. Amen.

Please change it.

Now he's gone.

p0rtia wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 2:40 pm

Please change it.

please

Can we change it to Trump is toast?

Changing the title is 100% up to the person who created the thread, unless they disappear for months without explanation. I don't interfere.

To repeat a post elsewhere:

Joe Biden apparently made his own decision. That's what I was waiting for. If he hadn't stepped down, I would have supported him 110%, as y'all know.

But that's over and done with. Let's move on.

Biden loves his family and his family loves him. I’m wishing him the very best retirement. He’s deserved it.

Indeed!

I think his decision may have been influenced by feeling tired and wrung out because of Covid.

Age is not really a factor, Trump is just as old. I just think he didn't feel up to fighting all the naysayers on our side.\\

Clairez wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 4:15 pm I think his decision may have been influenced by feeling tired and wrung out because of Covid.

Concur that the COVID case and decision are probably somewhat related. Maybe (hopefully) not determinative, but a factor.

I'm sorry, folks, and I respect that many of you may be disappointed or grieving. Would it be sufficient if I added an a apology to the thread title? Or you are more than welcome to delete it, it needn't be in the permanent record if it is bothersome. I'm not inclined to delete it myself out of respect for what other people contributed. Otherwise this will be my last comment and we can let it sink to the bottom. And I will disappear again due to "personal reasons."

Best luck.

Respect is the point. The title lacks it.

What she said.

I am so fucking pissed that the media wouldn't let one lousy debate go while the orange shit gibbon can ramble on about sharks, electric boats, electric planes, and what a great guy Hannibal Lecter is, and the media completely ignores it.

Fuck all of them.