Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 - Climate Change, ACA Subsidies, Medicare, Corp Tax, Deficit Reduction - Manchin Schumer

[jemcanada2]

And Biscuit and Root Beer are both "she/her" pronouns although technically they are both "it"
[/quote]

[jcolvin2]

FACT: According to the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT), the brunt of any new revenue from hiring an army of IRS auditors will overwhelming hit low- and middle-income earners, people already struggling with high gas prices and 9.1 percent inflation.

Umm, if "new revenue" will "hit" anyone, in the English language that means they get MORE revenue, which means more money.

So I am middle income and I will volunteer to take the "brunt" of being "hit" with more revenue, and thank you very much, Mike Crapo, you moron.

And yes, I do have a degree in International Economics from Georgetown University, and that isn't how things work at all, but let's simplify down to the elementary school level of discussion, which Mike Crapo excels at.

And what he's doing is trying to scare other morons like himself. So he is claiming that any new auditors at the IRS would go after low- and middle-income tax cheaters instead of the big boys. Is that simple enough to understand? With no evidence, of course, but that's the argument - it's the auditors who will "hit" the tax cheats, and Mike thinks they won't go after the big boys, they'll go after the little guys. The little guys who are cheating on their taxes and getting away with it because there aren't enough auditors now.

And it's a horrible thing, if all those little guys got caught cheating on their taxes and punished for it. Mike Crapo would cry all day about the tax cheats that he wants to keep cheating on their taxes.

Translation complete, no need to thank me, I do it for the children.

Crapo is simply wrong claiming that the new enforcement money for the IRS will be used solely to harass small businesses. In recent years, the IRS has become a much more data driven organization. If it gets extra money for enforcement, it will focus the bulk of its efforts on the larger taxpayers and the more complicated transactions, because that is where the money is.

[Foggy]

Yes, and aren't you an actual CPA who deals with little things like, say, computing taxes and so forth, humblescribe?

[sugar magnolia]

Yes, and aren't you an actual CPA who deals with little things like, say, computing taxes and so forth, humblescribe?

I'll take a CPA's opinion over a lawyer's opinion (especially one who graduated almost 50 years ago) on financial matters any day.

[jcolvin2]

The Joint Committee on Taxation reflects that there are minimal changes to individual taxes, with overall average tax rate remaining about the same (slight average cuts for most of those earning less than $200k, and slight average increases for those earning more).
https://www.jct.gov/publications/2022/jcx-19-22r/

[Foggy]

I'll take a CPA's opinion over a lawyer's opinion (especially one who graduated almost 50 years ago) on financial matters any day.

Of course, that's why I mentioned it, but I might have humblescribe confused with someone else here, I know we have a real CPA around here someplace.

Here's the bottom line, which you can apply to Mike Crapo or any of his elk:

If a Republican tells the truth about any subject whatsoever, they can instantly get sick and DIE. So they have to be very, very careful what they say.

In recent months there have been one or two exceptions, but we all know exceptions make the rule, and the elected Republicans are the worst of all.

[jcolvin2]

Of course, that's why I mentioned it, but I might have humblescribe confused with someone else here, I know we have a real CPA around here someplace.

I am not a CPA, but I am a tax lawyer, for whatever that is worth.

[Foggy]

Yeah, I don't want to guess what a tax lawyer is worth.

[humblescribe]

Yes, and aren't you an actual CPA who deals with little things like, say, computing taxes and so forth, humblescribe?

Full disclosure: I let my CPA license go into "retired" status late last year. So, I can still write, "Humblescribe CPA (Retired) and be within the rules of the California Board of Accountancy.

But yes, I placed numbers in boxes for nigh on forty years.

The Service started a program around 1990 to match up information returns (think forms W-2, 1099, or 1098) with what is reported on one's 1040. If there are one or more mismatches, the taxpayer (TP) would receive a nastygram suggesting that they made a boo-boo and cheerfully calculating the deficiency in tax plus interest. The TP could agree and pay, agree in part and pay in part, or disagree in full and submit proof why the return as filed was correct. The service counts these as audits. I'm not so sure.

Real audits involve drilling into the information provided on the return that cannot be matched up with the computer notices. TP answered questions and provided proof of what was requested. The examiner would then evaluate the items provided and determine an outcome. Typically this information would involve bank statements, receipts, proof of payment, and other items like contracts or other agreements.

From my experience (and likely different areas of the country will have different results) face-to-face audits started to decline rapidly as the Service ramped up the computer matching assessments. The computer notices are cheap; additional revenue received is substantial, and the employees who evaluate the responses are not paid as much as tax examiners or revenue agents. I recall that Congress slashed the IRS budgets under Bush II (but it may have been Clinton.)

I do not know personally of any tax lawyers who actually prepare income tax returns. (They probably will prepare estate and gift tax returns as generally we are talking about the uber-wealthy.) I have consulted with tax lawyers on occasion when there are thorny issues involved to get that warm, fuzzy feeling about a position taken on a return.

To conclude, accountants, like lawyers do enjoy a limited privilege with their clients on income tax matters. But that privilege is waived if the accountant or lawyer signs the returns as a paid preparer. While I am ignorant of how lawyers think and act, I would hazard a guess that the last thing a good lawyer wants to do is sign away the lawyer-client confidence privilege.

[tek]

Off Topic

one of my clients sent a 1099 that was in error. Way in error. Like almost-seven-figures in error.
I waited until I had the corrected 1099 in hand before filing my taxes, but it took long enough that there was a skew in the IRS systems... Got the friendly letter saying "we think you actually earned 6 times what you reported".

Hilarity ensues. Not.

Another contractor called me in early April of that year and said "Hey, Tom, did they screw up your 1099?"
"Oh, yeah, we caught it the day it showed up in the mail, Major screwup"
"Shit, I just opened it.."

Of course, the company didn't ever think they should proactively issue corrected 1099s. I'm sure people are still unwinding this mess.

[Foggy]

Still waiting for the brunt of the revenue to hit me, like Mike Crapo said it would.

... the brunt of any new revenue from hiring an army of IRS auditors will overwhelming hit low- and middle-income earners ...

[p0rtia]

Careful. You wouldn't want any brunt force trauma.

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

So, what would have been so terrible if I had a small fortune? - Topol in Fiddler on the Roof

Damned autocorrect wrote Toddler on the Roof. Hmmm, could I make autocorrect substitute toddler for tfg?

[Ben-Prime]

Yeah, I don't want to guess what a tax lawyer is worth.

If you could do so accurately, they wouldn't be a very good tax lawyer. QED.

[Gregg]

Yeah, I don't want to guess what a tax lawyer is worth.

If you could do so accurately, they wouldn't be a very good tax lawyer. QED.

punch line.. closes the shades, checks the door... "What do you want it to be worth?"

[MN-Skeptic]

It's interesting to see the backgrounds of the members here. I have a master's degree in business taxation. I started in public accounting, then worked in the tax department for a large corporation. When my boss left and they offered me his position, it was an easy decision to turn them down. Good grief... I would have had to deal with IRS agents! The last primary IRS agent on our audit had bad body odor. Life to too short. Fortunately I was getting a reputation within the company for my PC expertise and the company was great at accommodating people who wanted to change jobs. Even better, I.T. reported to the VP of Finance, so he basically told the Director of I.T. to find a position for me!

[Foggy]

That's awesome, MN-Skeptic. You and others have such a broad range of expertise that other members can take advantage of, it's great. And the best thing is, we have all this great legal expertise too, but nobody can give us any specific legal advice because they'd be punished by the British Accreditation Registry (or it might be Regency, I forget).

[Suranis]

People are throwing around this NYP story from the 3rd of August

https://nypost.com/2022/08/03/why-irs-8 ... -business/

Small business owners may soon be in for a lengthy and expensive battle with the IRS, tax experts warn.

A key provision in the Inflation Reduction Act — which throws an extra $80 billion to the IRS to improve the agency’s collection of under-reported income — will end up targeting small business owners to pay for the legislation, according to nonpartisan watchdog the Joint Committee on Taxation.

The group estimates that between 78% and 90% of the estimated additional $200 billion the IRS will collect will come from small businesses making less than $200,000 annually.

Just 4% to 9% would come from businesses making north of $500,000 a year — meaning the legislation is in sharp contrast to President Biden’s longstanding claim that he wouldn’t raise taxes on anyone making less than $400,000.

“The IRS will have to target small and medium businesses because they won’t fight back,” Joe Hinchman, executive vice president at National Taxpayers Union Foundation, told The Post. “We’ve seen this play out before … the IRS says ‘We’re going after the rich’ but when you’re trying to raise that much money, the rich can only get you so far.”

Well firstly they dont like to the JCOT report that says that

Secondly if you go the the JCOT website and look at their publications you cant find anything that says that previous to the third of August At least not that I can find

https://www.jct.gov/

THis is their report on the effedts of the Budgetary proposals, published 25th July

https://www.jct.gov/CMSPages/GetFile.as ... 8c6a54624b

Third when you see their report on the actual bill that is passing, they estimate it would be about 40%, the rest coning from high earners

https://www.jct.gov/CMSPages/GetFile.as ... 8a26936398

So, basically, the NYP is full of shit, and the people pointing at that story are full of piss.

[Foggy]

stupid.jpg

that slays me

[Luke]

While the angry, lying dotard is under investigation for the Espionage Act* and his supporters are going out of their minds and twisting themselves into pretzels: FRIDAY SMACKDOWN!...

The Democrats passed the IRA: WINNING!

Pup-peroni for EVERYBODY! Thank you to the 699th's Supreme Commander!








We must be mindful that None of this would have been possible without the Mighty Help of Lt Col Root Beer, Lt Biscuit & the 699th Airborne Assault Dachshund Regiment based at Der Dachshundbünker! ("Who's a good girl who brought JUSTICE? You are, you are!!")

Credit where it's due: Lt Biscuit's WAR FACE put us over the finish line. This was just Lt Biscuit being "mildly annoyed" -- Republicans, don't tempt fate and really make Lt Biscuit "actually angry".

BISCUIT WAR FACE 699TH.JPG (90.97 KiB) Viewed 1280 times

IRA Passed.JPG (114.74 KiB) Viewed 1287 times

IRA Passed Biden.JPG (66.47 KiB) Viewed 1287 times

* Orin Kerr @OrinKerr 1h
Reporters, please stop saying that Trump is suspected of having committed espionage based on the MAL warrant having authorized a search for evidence of Espionage Act violations The Espionage Act is a pretty broad law about mishandling classified documents, not just espionage.

[Gregg]

People are throwing around this NYP story from the 3rd of August

https://nypost.com/2022/08/03/why-irs-8 ... -business/

Small business owners may soon be in for a lengthy and expensive battle with the IRS, tax experts warn.

A key provision in the Inflation Reduction Act — which throws an extra $80 billion to the IRS to improve the agency’s collection of under-reported income — will end up targeting small business owners to pay for the legislation, according to nonpartisan watchdog the Joint Committee on Taxation.

The group estimates that between 78% and 90% of the estimated additional $200 billion the IRS will collect will come from small businesses making less than $200,000 annually.

Just 4% to 9% would come from businesses making north of $500,000 a year — meaning the legislation is in sharp contrast to President Biden’s longstanding claim that he wouldn’t raise taxes on anyone making less than $400,000.

“The IRS will have to target small and medium businesses because they won’t fight back,” Joe Hinchman, executive vice president at National Taxpayers Union Foundation, told The Post. “We’ve seen this play out before … the IRS says ‘We’re going after the rich’ but when you’re trying to raise that much money, the rich can only get you so far.”

So, basically, the NYP is full of shit, and the people pointing at that story are full of piss.

Loud, for the people in the back!

It's not a tax increase when they make you pay the tax you are cheating on. If you're not cheating on your taxes, you won't pay any more than you are now!

[jcolvin2]

The NY Post report is nothing if not partisan and inaccurate. The Post says:

The group estimates that between 78% and 90% of the estimated additional $200 billion the IRS will collect will come from small businesses making less than $200,000 annually.

Just 4% to 9% would come from businesses making north of $500,000 a year — meaning the legislation is in sharp contrast to President Biden’s longstanding claim that he wouldn’t raise taxes on anyone making less than $400,000.

“The IRS will have to target small and medium businesses because they won’t fight back,” Joe Hinchman, executive vice president at National Taxpayers Union Foundation, told The Post. “We’ve seen this play out before … the IRS says ‘We’re going after the rich’ but when you’re trying to raise that much money, the rich can only get you so far.”

The Post is simply wrong. Secretary Yellen has directed that the additional enforcement resources go towards high end taxpayers. Yellen Letter to IRS 2022-08-10

[Ben-Prime]

Loud, for the people in the back!

It's not a tax increase when they make you pay the tax you are cheating on. If you're not cheating on your taxes, you won't pay any more than you are now!

I think that's because in talking up or talking down the bill depending on which side one is on, many people use 'pay' when they mean 'owe'.

No such small business will OWE more than they do now, but some may PAY more because, as you say, they have been PAYING less than they OWE and now the bill will come due with increased enforcement.

[Gregg]

It just maddens me to see Americans, the least taxed people in the developed world, whining about paying any taxes. They don't whine about great highways, safe medicine, pure food, the largest military to keep them safe in the world by a factor of 10, and that despite having no hostile neighbors the longest safe unfenced border on the planet, the best and most secure banking system man has ever seen a government that in spite of the last five years still is capable of doing a lot of good.

They act like they're living in feudal Europe, wearing rags and slaving away on the Earl's factory farm and now they want to cut the ration of gruel and porridge. The only thing they want to use any tax dollars for is screwing the libs, build a border wall and build stadiums for sprotsball teams.

Meanwhile, we are the only industrial country with for profit health care being our primary system and Ron Johnson thinks we need to take a long hard look at what we do spend on Medicare.

[Foggy]