Fogbow

Patagoniagirl wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:27 am Can we add knives and brass knuckles to the concealed weapons? Cause OhiDOH has passed another interesting law.

Senate Bill 156, which passed on party lines with Republicans in support and Democrats in opposition, prohibits cities from passing laws blocking citizens from carrying knives.

The legislation effectively locks in a law passed in 2021 that lets Ohioans carry concealed knives. The list of weapons allowed for manufacturing, sale and concealed carry include brass knuckles, cestuses, billy clubs, blackjacks, sandbags, switchblade knives, springblade knives, gravity knives, and similar weapons.

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/sta ... -expansion

We are so trying to be Florida, it's like DeSantis trying to be Trump but with snow.

Gregg wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:43 am

Patagoniagirl wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:27 am Can we add knives and brass knuckles to the concealed weapons? Cause OhiDOH has passed another interesting law.

Senate Bill 156, which passed on party lines with Republicans in support and Democrats in opposition, prohibits cities from passing laws blocking citizens from carrying knives.

The legislation effectively locks in a law passed in 2021 that lets Ohioans carry concealed knives. The list of weapons allowed for manufacturing, sale and concealed carry include brass knuckles, cestuses, billy clubs, blackjacks, sandbags, switchblade knives, springblade knives, gravity knives, and similar weapons.

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/sta ... -expansion

We are so trying to be Florida, it's like DeSantis trying to be Trump but with snow.

Off Topic:.

My eldest son who moved from Florida to Ohio ( now in NC) and who is black, made an interesting observation. He said that at least in FL, racism was pretty much front and center. Folks made no bones about not liking the Blaaaas. Here in Ohio, the Abolitionist State, our neck of it at least, its more hidden, more just under the radar. Mike DeWine presents as a nice country gentleman and farmer. In FL, DeSantis says it right out loud. When eldest moved here, he boosted the census number for this town to EIGHT, the number of blacks. The other seven are foster children.

513, 614, 419 or 216?

Patagoniagirl wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:27 am Can we add knives and brass knuckles to the concealed weapons? Cause OhiDOH has passed another interesting law.

Senate Bill 156, which passed on party lines with Republicans in support and Democrats in opposition, prohibits cities from passing laws blocking citizens from carrying knives.

The legislation effectively locks in a law passed in 2021 that lets Ohioans carry concealed knives. The list of weapons allowed for manufacturing, sale and concealed carry include brass knuckles, cestuses, billy clubs, blackjacks, sandbags, switchblade knives, springblade knives, gravity knives, and similar weapons.

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/sta ... -expansion

Crocodile Dundee will feel like at home

Gregg wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:48 pm 513, 614, 419 or 216?

614. But I only have an internet phone number only now. Don't even know what it is. Williams County.

2nd Amendment rights to open carry. In the states that allow it the public ought to get more legal information prior to go into panic mode.

From the handful of 2A proponents I get to see on Youtube and the 911 calls they retrieve via FOIA requests the 911 call centers fail to properly educate caller. What I got to see is "we (the police) cannot do anything" rather than saying something along the line of "it is legal to carry arms".

Funny thing of course nobody panics cause they don't realize how many people are out there with a concealed carry permit among them.

One statement by 2A activists especially: if you don't flex your muscles you lose them, if you don't use your right to open carry you will lose it.

One astonishing thing I take from the 2A videoclips is how little police officers themselves know about open and concealed carry in their own state.

PS. Florida has concealed permits. But the law especially allows open carry "while going to, performing and returning from: hunting, fishing or camping". Fun fact. the law does not restrict carry locations while doing these activities. It is totally legal to go fishing with your AR15 in the middle of swimmers and sunbathers on the beach (as long fishing is allowed there).

Fuck that. I know that the law allows open carry in AZ, but if I see some asshole in a tactical vest armed to the teeth carrying an AR-15 into Target, I'm calling 911. Contacting Target corporate. And leaving. Let them sort it out. I'm going to create as many problems for ammo-sexuals as possible.

raison de arizona wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:13 pm Fuck that. I know that the law allows open carry in AZ, but if I see some asshole in a tactical vest armed to the teeth carrying an AR-15 into Target, I'm calling 911. Contacting Target corporate. And leaving. Let them sort it out. I'm going to create as many problems for ammo-sexuals as possible.

Sort of like if you’re picking up birthday cake at Top’s in Buffalo.

Wow, sounds like a hell of an amendment. Still waiting for it to be different this time.

Firearms Policy Coalition @gunpolicy wrote: Pennsylvania: "State House Republicans blocked a proposal to prevent those ages 18 to 21 from possessing assault-style rifles on Tuesday by completely changing the bill into a constitutional amendment to allow anyone to carry concealed guns."

You'll be astonished to find out the NRA has come out against the Senate framework, weak as it is.


The act: https://www.murphy.senate.gov/imo/media ... t_text.pdf

Why doesn't anyone actually know what the second amendment says and intends? This ain't it.

pipistrelle wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:51 pm Why doesn't anyone actually know what the second amendment says and intends? This ain't it.

You know, I've been listening to some of the talking heads on TV, basically saying that the Uvalde Police are all incompetent cowards and that they could have prevented the tragedy.

That may be true, but, we're really still in the early stages of the investigation. I'm trying not to rush to judgment until all the facts are clear, which they still aren't. I have to admit, though, that it is shaping up that the cops blew it, big time. That may just be the media hype or it may be true.

OTOH, we must only judge the cops on the basis of what they knew or should have known at the time. That is still unclear.

However, that isn't my point.

I'm afraid that, regardless of the truth, the gun-rights advocates will jump on this and argue that it wasn't that the bad guys had guns, which should be banned, but rather that it was all the cops' fault. "If they had done there jobs properly, this wouldn't have happened. Don't blame the guns.", or "If the teachers had been armed, the shooters could have been stopped."

pipistrelle wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:51 pm Why doesn't anyone actually know what the second amendment says and intends? This ain't it.

The right to keep and deploy integrated anti aircraft CIWS Arrays shall not be infringed. (paraphrasing)

The cops blowing it I'm inclined to give them a mulligan on. They were confused, they didn't know what was going on, who was in charge and kids, it ain't natural to just rush a guy with an assault rifle. Sorry, not sorry, none of us, none, can say what we'd do when dong the right thing might mean getting killed.

What I cannot forgive is the way that every damned fact about what happened had to be dragged out of people who should have known before they started saying things that turned out to not be true. Best comment on this story? "We're one press release away from finding out the police dragged three of the kids out and shot them".

It was a shit show, but in a shit show the first rule is STFU until you know what happened, then prepare a factual statement that can be expanded upon as it becomes clear what the full story is.

Gregg wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:09 am The cops blowing it I'm inclined to give them a mulligan on. They were confused, they didn't know what was going on, who was in charge and kids, it ain't natural to just rush a guy with an assault rifle. Sorry, not sorry, none of us, none, can say what we'd do when dong the right thing might mean getting killed.

What I cannot forgive is the way that every damned fact about what happened had to be dragged out of people who should have known before they started saying things that turned out to not be true. Best comment on this story? "We're one press release away from finding out the police dragged three of the kids out and shot them".

It was a shit show, but in a shit show the first rule is STFU until you know what happened, then prepare a factual statement that can be expanded upon as it becomes clear what the full story is.

I seem to remember that the Uvalde police department had received specific training in this area within a month or two of the massacre.

No mulligan.

I had a lot of specific training once,


among a bunch of other stuff... and I want to think that if kids lives depended on my remembering it (even in 1983 when I was fresh out) and then acting on it to do the right thing then I would, do the right thing.

But I don't know that. Some of my specific training involved jumping out of 5 perfectly good airplanes and I remember thinking the lesson learned was I wasn't ever gonna jump out of 6.

Being a coward ain't admirable, but it is natural.

On the other hand....

The lesson from Uvalde? America has too many police departments.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... partments/

Gregg wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:19 am On the other hand....

The lesson from Uvalde? America has too many police departments.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... partments/

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Lots of incorrect info in that short paragraph, at least based on the depts I worked with. As a matter of fact, pretty much every statement is wrong.

House Judiciary GOP @JudiciaryGOP wrote: No gun bill.
No amnesty.

Period.

sugar magnolia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:55 am

Gregg wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:19 am On the other hand....

The lesson from Uvalde? America has too many police departments.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... partments/

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Lots of incorrect info in that short paragraph, at least based on the depts I worked with. As a matter of fact, pretty much every statement is wrong.

In South Florida, there's an intersection that, 35 years ago when I was in high school, was actually the meeting point of four police jurisdictions -- Fort Lauderdale PD, Hollywood PD, Broward Sheriff, and Seminole Tribal Police -- and when an accident took place there, four cop cars would show up to each argue that the other guys should handle it. The reverse of claiming jurisdiction, really.

For the most part, the various intersecting jurisdictions are ... okay ... but the radio thing has been a problem. There's been a project for years since a law passed at the state level requiring it to unify 911 communications across all the public safety agencies statewide, and sometimes, things don't go smooth.

But, that said, I would agree with Sugar and disagree with the article that this is not across the board and systemic. It happens. Sometimes it happens when lives are at risk. But the trend is to fix it, not live with it.

Ben-Prime wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:38 pm

sugar magnolia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:55 am

Gregg wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:19 am On the other hand....

The lesson from Uvalde? America has too many police departments.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... partments/

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This board requires you to be registered and logged-in to view hidden content.

Lots of incorrect info in that short paragraph, at least based on the depts I worked with. As a matter of fact, pretty much every statement is wrong.

In South Florida, there's an intersection that, 35 years ago when I was in high school, was actually the meeting point of four police jurisdictions -- Fort Lauderdale PD, Hollywood PD, Broward Sheriff, and Seminole Tribal Police -- and when an accident took place there, four cop cars would show up to each argue that the other guys should handle it. The reverse of claiming jurisdiction, really.

For the most part, the various intersecting jurisdictions are ... okay ... but the radio thing has been a problem. There's been a project for years since a law passed at the state level requiring it to unify 911 communications across all the public safety agencies statewide, and sometimes, things don't go smooth.

But, that said, I would agree with Sugar and disagree with the article that this is not across the board and systemic. It happens. Sometimes it happens when lives are at risk. But the trend is to fix it, not live with it.

Exactly. 4 people on 4 streets witness an accident at that intersection and they all call 911. Their calls go to 4 different agencies so 4 different agencies get dispatched. We have a few of those shared jurisdictional lines here and the problem was solved by deciding that whoever was on scene first worked the wreck. If you call 911 for something on County Line Rd now, it takes longer for the call taker to get information from you than it does to get an officer on scene because they'll grill you if it's it's in the eastbound lanes (city) or westbound lanes (county), meanwhile an officer has rolled up on it and is already working it.

Pretty much every dept in the country at this time has access to some sort of mutual radio system, but even then, it's not always the same one. And someone has to tell them to switch over to the coordinated channel. People calling the cops don't always use 911 either. They may call an administrative line, or directly into dispatch to report something.That was a huge issue when I dispatched for the highway patrol. They had a statewide general number people used that then had to be transferred to the correct troop HQ. Even the troops from one district to the next couldn't communicate with each other unless we told them to go to a mutual channel.

Also, the commander is not just the first guy who shows up, it's the guy who has original jurisdiction over the site. If it happens in a school, the school chief is in charge. If it happens at a hospital, the chief of the hospital pd is in charge. I can't imagine any dept, no matter how small, not training with other depts either. 6 or 8 total cops on one dept aren't going to do expensive active shooter training by themselves, or leave their town copless while all the officers attend. They're going to invite all the other small depts to send a few of their officers, and the sheriff's office to send some of theirs, and any dept that has a SWAT team will be invited, too.

That opinion is just pulling stuff out of their ass to make the point they want to make.

SCOTUS:

The constitutional right to bear arms in public for self-defense

I missed that in the originalist reading.

Saw a statement from Alito where he said that the Buffalo shooting wasn't stopped by NY State's gun laws, so... therefore the shooter there should have been legally able to carry his assault rifle into the grocery store? Not sure where Alito was going, I got disgusted and closed it before finishing. Will look it up again later after I calm down a little.