Fogbow

neonzx wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 9:42 am I got tricked once by a church. At communion, they served not wine but grape juice. Didn't at all taste like the blood of Christ.

jcolvin2 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 10:02 am

neonzx wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 9:42 am I got tricked once by a church. At communion, they served not wine but grape juice. Didn't at all taste like the blood of Christ.

When we were kids, my sister and I referred to the white wine our Episcopal Church used for communion (Muscatel?) as “the plasma of Christ”

neonzx wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 9:42 am I got tricked once by a church. At communion, they served not wine but grape juice. Didn't at all taste like the blood of Christ.

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 8:45 am As a strict Southern Baptist explained to me, "That wine didn't have alcohol in it."

My muted response was:

Sam the Centipede wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 8:34 am It always amused me that Methodists could be (publicly at least) anti-booze.

Look, Jesus turned water into wine - what stronger religious recommendation could one ask for?

keith wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 12:13 am When I asked my Methodist preacher that exact question, he said, and I quote: "Well back then, wine was non-alcoholic".

I never did get around to asking him about why it was his responsibility, as a guest, to supply the wine.

Suranis wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:21 am

keith wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 12:13 am When I asked my Methodist preacher that exact question, he said, and I quote: "Well back then, wine was non-alcoholic".

I never did get around to asking him about why it was his responsibility, as a guest, to supply the wine.

Lets just ignore the descriptions of getting black out Drunk from wine in the Bible then, shall we?

Ephesians 5:18
And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,
Genesis 9:21
He drank of the wine and became drunk, and uncovered himself inside his tent.
Isaiah 5:11
Woe to those who rise early in the morning that they may pursue strong drink,
Who stay up late in the evening that wine may inflame them!
Isaiah 51:21
Therefore, please hear this, you afflicted,
Who are drunk, but not with wine:
Genesis 9:24
When Noah awoke from his wine, he knew what his youngest son had done to him.

Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Drunkenness

Bah. Utter silliness.

keith wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 2:48 am
Um, your quotes from the old testament are not responsive to the discussion about Christians claiming that Christian era wine technology was alchohol free. It is also not responsive to the query about why would Jesus turn water into wine when the quotes you offered might be in opposition to wine.

I say "might be" because I don't read them as against wine - I see them as against drunkeness - but I understand others read it differently. (and Isaiah 51:21 isn't even about wine as such).

Bah. Utter misreading of the text.

Acts 2:13-15

But others were mocking and saying, "They are full of sweet wine." But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: "Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words. "For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day;

Sam the Centipede wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 8:34 am It always amused me that Methodists could be (publicly at least) anti-booze.

Look, Jesus turned water into wine - what stronger religious recommendation could one ask for?

Sam the Centipede wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 8:34 am It always amused me that Methodists could be (publicly at least) anti-booze.

Look, Jesus turned water into wine - what stronger religious recommendation could one ask for?

northland10 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 8:12 am

Sam the Centipede wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 8:34 am It always amused me that Methodists could be (publicly at least) anti-booze.

Look, Jesus turned water into wine - what stronger religious recommendation could one ask for?

The great mystery of the Methodist Eucharist is when wine transforms into Welch's.

I learned that joke in a class at a Methodist seminary.

Frater I*I wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 4:46 pm

Sam the Centipede wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 8:34 am It always amused me that Methodists could be (publicly at least) anti-booze.

Look, Jesus turned water into wine - what stronger religious recommendation could one ask for?

"And...ummm..Jesus...I got this here sage...if ya can man...you know..."

I'll come in again...

New role for Amy Coney Barrett’s father inside Christian sect sparks controversy
Alleged abuse survivors at People of Praise worry Michael Coney may block group’s handling of sexual abuse from becoming public

Stephanie Kirchgaessner in Washington
Mon 29 Jan 2024 12.00 CET

Survivors of alleged childhood abuse inside the People of Praise, a secretive Christian sect that counts Amy Coney Barrett as a member, are voicing concerns that the supreme court justice’s father, who was recently promoted to a new role, may seek to block information about the group’s historic handling of sexual abuse becoming public.

Barrett, a conservative justice who was appointed by former US president Donald Trump, has never publicly disclosed her participation in the covenant Christian community, which some former members have compared to a cult.

Her father, Michael Coney, a Louisiana-based lawyer who worked for Shell and has been a longtime member of the PoP, was this month appointed to serve as the group’s new legal counsel. Coney is also taking the helm of a “consultation team” that, internal correspondence seen by the Guardian shows, has been dealing with “issues of concern” to the group’s 1,100 members, including “misuse of authority” inside the PoP, “lack of accountable leadership”, and “mistrust of the board”.

Coney’s appointment is part of a broader shake-up inside the PoP, whose leadership has been consumed by a contentious debate over the legitimacy of the 2021 election of its current leader, Charlie Fraga. Known as the “overall coordinator”, Fraga has said the bitter fight has emerged as an “urgent threat to the unity of the community”.

For survivors of alleged childhood sexual and physical abuse inside the PoP, Coney’s elevation is deeply troubling. PoP Survivors – as the group is known – has for years called for the PoP to be investigated and held accountable for its handling of historic claims of abuse. The Guardian reported last year that the FBI had interviewed several individuals who have alleged they were abused by members of the PoP, but it is not clear whether the FBI opened a formal investigation.




https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ontroversy

There was a moment when Moses had the nerve to ask God what His name is. God was gracious enough to answer, and the name He gave is recorded in the original Hebrew as YHWH.

Over time we’ve arbitrarily added an “a” and an “e” in there to get YaHWeH, presumably because we have a preference for vowels. But scholars and rabbis have noted that the letters YHWH represent breathing sounds, or aspirated consonants. When pronounced without intervening vowels, it actually sounds like breathing. YH (inhale): WH (exhale).

So a baby’s first cry, his first breath, speaks the name of God. A deep sigh calls His name – or a groan or gasp that is too heavy for mere words. Even an atheist would speak His name, unaware that their very breath is giving constant acknowledgment to God. Likewise, a person leaves this earth with their last breath, when God’s name is no longer filling their lungs.

So when I can’t utter anything else, is my cry calling out His name?

Being alive means I speak His name constantly. Is it heard the loudest when I’m the quietest?

In sadness, we breathe heavy sighs. In joy, our lungs feel almost like they will burst. In fear, we hold our breath and have to be told to breathe slowly to help us calm down. When we’re about to do something hard, we take a deep breath to find our courage.

When I think about it, breathing is giving Him praise. Even in the hardest moments!

This is so beautiful and fills me with emotion every time I grasp the thought. God chose to give Himself a name that we can’t help but speak every moment we’re alive. All of us, always, everywhere. Waking, sleeping, breathing, with the name of God on our lips.