Fogbow

Kriselda Gray wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:19 am

bill_g wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 6:38 pm This sounds like a classic intersection of FAFO and the Darwin Award. It's unfortunate the man was killed, but his overconfidence killed him before he bypassed the safeties.

The article doesn't say anything about him bypassing safeties. He was inspecting the machine ahead of a scheduled test when it malfunctioned. Or is there something I'm missing?

You're right. But I'll assume Korean companies have some regard for their employees, and that there are safety protocols in place for inspections and routine maintenance. One of those being a lock out / tag out process. It is SOP to deenergize equipment so it cannot accidentally harm you. And as already discussed, there is generally a physical barrier placed between people and machinery with interlocks that automatically deenergize equipment if the access panels / doors / gates are opened. Somehow in this case those safety provisions were not active, and the man was killed.

bill_g wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:29 am

Kriselda Gray wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:19 am

bill_g wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 6:38 pm This sounds like a classic intersection of FAFO and the Darwin Award. It's unfortunate the man was killed, but his overconfidence killed him before he bypassed the safeties.

The article doesn't say anything about him bypassing safeties. He was inspecting the machine ahead of a scheduled test when it malfunctioned. Or is there something I'm missing?

You're right. But I'll assume Korean companies have some regard for their employees, and that there are safety protocols in place for inspections and routine maintenance. One of those being a lock out / tag out process. It is SOP to deenergize equipment so it cannot accidentally harm you. And as already discussed, there is generally a physical barrier placed between people and machinery with interlocks that automatically deenergize equipment if the access panels / doors / gates are opened. Somehow in this case those safety provisions were not active, and the man was killed.

Ok, that makes sense. I was thinking that maybe the malfunction was in the safety system itself, but I know virtually nothing about machines.

You're right bill, but sometimes co-workers maliciously, accidentally, stupidly or negligently sabotage safety systems. A friend who is very conscientious, almost obsessive, suffered a nasty degloving injury (his hand is still a mess years later) when a colleague removed the safety tags etc. and restored power to where he was working on the electrics.

These accidents have many causes, often the victim is the culprit, but often it is someone else, be it co-eorker, manager, designer, maintainer, random interferer.

Sam the Centipede wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:11 pm You're right bill, but sometimes co-workers maliciously, accidentally, stupidly or negligently sabotage safety systems. A friend who is very conscientious, almost obsessive, suffered a nasty degloving injury (his hand is still a mess years later) when a colleague removed the safety tags etc. and restored power to where he was working on the electrics.

These accidents have many causes, often the victim is the culprit, but often it is someone else, be it co-eorker, manager, designer, maintainer, random interferer.

We undergo 8-12 hours of recurring training annually so we will not become "random interferers" if we are out on the shop floor. In four years, I've never been out there. But I have extensive training on how to avoid getting in the way of forklifts, how to recognize when a crane lift is going to happen, how to deal with chemical spills and all sorts of other things. I have a pair of safety shoes and safety glasses that I bring with me when I go to the office just in case I have to go into the shop.

Incidentally, there are elaborate "lock out/tag out" procedures that exist to ensure that the problem you and others have described, where very safety-conscious operators have been injured by machinery under maintenance suddenly starting up, doesn't occur. Everyone participating in a maintenance action has their own padlock with their own keys that they apply to the circuit breaker or to some other critical part. The machine can't be restarted until each lock has been removed by its respective owner.

Our procedures require you place your tag on your lock so people know whom to contact if they want to discuss access. They are just laminated cards with your name punched with a hole large enough for the padlock. You keep a pack of them in the LOTO bag we issue.

Speaking of interlocks, that was one of my specialties - to make relay logic systems for jail entries that prevented doors from unlocking until all other doors were latched. Relays were preferred because they were easier to understand and maintain, they weren't dependent upon computers that have a short lifespan compared to a building, and they have very low power consumption. MTBF* is usually a million door activations.

* mean time between failures

Thanks bill, I'm not disagreeing with anything you say. I know little of my acquaintance's accident, except that it was in a very remote location where contract workers were attracted by high pay rates, not by the quality of the work or organization. So training, supervision, discipline, etc. might have been lax, so the culprit ignored tags, procedures, etc. because he wanted the electrical power on for some reason and didn't give any weight to safety or checking. Too much bigger!

Ultimately it is next to impossible to design systems that can remove risk when there are people bent on ignoring or circumventing proper procedure with little care for their or others' safety. The history of accidents involving rail signaling does that: excellent systems that only fall if several people break rules: but those accidents happened. I'm thinking of the famous (in accident circles) Abermule train crash in 1921 (Wikipedia). The single track line had a tablet system to ensure only one train was in each section at a time. When a train arrived, the wrong station person took the wrong tablet from the wrong place gave it to another wrong person who gave it to the train crew, and not one of them checked that it was the correct tablet for the section they were due to enter. It wasn't; an express train was already on that section heading towards them and there was a head -on collision with many fatalities. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy, result deaths. If just one, any one, of the negligent staff had followed procedure the accident would not have occurred.

Volkonski wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 4:38 pm Back when I was working in robotics the robots were separated from humans by gated fencing. Any attempt to get past the fences would disable the robots.

Of course a determined human can defeat most protective measures.

It is written into all our standards that robotics are enclosed in Lock out/Tag out enclosures with light curtains at all openings in the enclosure.
My motorcar plant has about 800 full on robots and another 750 enclosed part transfer machines.
We gotz plenty of Terminators.

Owner of Colorado funeral home and his wife arrested after 189 bodies found


story: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ing-bodies

Sam the Centipede wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:30 pm Thanks bill, I'm not disagreeing with anything you say. I know little of my acquaintance's accident, except that it was in a very remote location where contract workers were attracted by high pay rates, not by the quality of the work or organization. So training, supervision, discipline, etc. might have been lax, so the culprit ignored tags, procedures, etc. because he wanted the electrical power on for some reason and didn't give any weight to safety or checking. Too much bigger!

Oddly enough I'm familiar with the type! Testosterone poisoning comes in many forms. An Army Ranger proved he could safely repel down a tower. And he did. He did it perfectly. It was cool to watch. It wasn't as cool to talk about for the next several hours as I drove him back to town after I fired him.

Plane turns back to JFK after horse escapes on board

https://www.cnn.com/travel/horse-escape ... index.html

A Boeing 747 en route from New York JFK to Liege, Belgium, was forced to turn around on November 9 after a horse got loose in the cargo hold.

The cargo flight operated by charter airline Air Atlanta Icelandic had climbed to around 31,000 feet when the crew contacted Air Traffic Control in Boston to report that the horse had escaped from its stall.

“We don’t have a problem (…) flying-wise,” one of the pilots says in a video reconstruction by YouTube channel “You Can See ATC,” but “we cannot get the horse back secured.”

In the recordings, Air Traffic Control can be heard granting the pilots’ request to return to JFK Airport and, because the plane was too heavy, to dump 20 tonnes of fuel east of Nantucket.

The pilot also asks for a veterinarian to meet the plane upon landing, because “we have a horse in difficulty.”

When humans can have their miles high adventour just let the horse have their miles high OK Corral ....

There should have been a Vet onboard and the horse should have been sedated, at leat a little, before takeoff. I have a feeling this didn't have a happy ending for the horse.

NICE BEAVER

November’s full beaver moon will shine bright this weekend

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/26/worl ... index.html

Multnomah County officials told a man's family he had died — but he was still alive

Chilidog wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 7:35 pm NICE BEAVER

November’s full beaver moon will shine bright this weekend

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/26/worl ... index.html

Thank you, I just had it stuffed.

northland10 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 8:01 am

Chilidog wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 7:35 pm NICE BEAVER

November’s full beaver moon will shine bright this weekend

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/26/worl ... index.html

Thank you, I just had it stuffed.

From the files of Police Squad....

Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/al ... rcna137877

A radio station in Alabama was forced to go silent after thieves stole their 200-foot radio tower and other equipment from a building.

WJLX radio station sent a landscaping crew to the site Friday morning for spring cleaning, only to find the 200-foot radio tower gone. When a crew member called the station's general manager to break the news, he was in disbelief.

"What do you mean the tower is gone? Are you sure you're in the right place? I actually used more colorful words than that," Brett Elmore recounted to NBC News. "He said there's wires all over the ground and the tower is gone."

Not only was the radio tower stolen, but a nearby building was also vandalized. When Elmore heard the door was left ajar, "that's when reality was starting to set in that something bad had happened."

The thieves stole every piece of equipment from the building, including a transmitter. Elmore has filed a report with the police.

A very desparate ham operator, no doubt

Had to pass that one on to my radio engineer father-in-law, quite a theft!

RTH10260 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:33 pm A very desparate ham operator, no doubt

Speaking of Ham operator...

Bride busted having a ‘quickie’ with groom’s uncle 30 minutes before wedding ceremony: ‘Things exploded’

https://nypost.com/2024/02/03/lifestyle ... -exploded/

Uh, ok.

The original Reddit post is linked in the article. It is quite a ride!

I call totally made-up BS on the bridal story.

Might as well throw the link to the Reddit story here. Ya its a hoot, a lot more details than the NYP story.

https://www.reddit.com/r/bridezillas/co ... ds_bridal/