Fogbow

I suspect that their most valuable assets once all the litigation is finalized will be their membership and mailing lists and I suspect that LaPierre has already made copies of those for himself.

woodworker wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 4:14 pm I suspect that their most valuable assets once all the litigation is finalized will be their membership and mailing lists and I suspect that LaPierre has already made copies of those for himself.

NYAG could demand turn over all lists as part of the assets and make LaPierre not be allowed to lead or be a part of any non-profit board because of his criminal conduct...like they did with the Trumps.

Jim wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 4:52 pm

woodworker wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 4:14 pm I suspect that their most valuable assets once all the litigation is finalized will be their membership and mailing lists and I suspect that LaPierre has already made copies of those for himself.

NYAG could demand turn over all lists as part of the assets and make LaPierre not be allowed to lead or be a part of any non-profit board because of his criminal conduct...like they did with the Trumps.

Sure, but that would do nothing to prevent him from selling a copy of that list to interested third-parties. He wouldn't sit on a board, but he could net a tidy profit. Enough to afford a at least a few more $300,000 shopping sprees at Zegna in Beverly Hills. (Hey, at least his taste in menswear is better than Trump's...)

And I very much doubt that the NYAG has the authority to issue an order barring him from participating in such activities outside the State of New York.

fierceredpanda wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 4:57 pm

Jim wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 4:52 pm

woodworker wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 4:14 pm I suspect that their most valuable assets once all the litigation is finalized will be their membership and mailing lists and I suspect that LaPierre has already made copies of those for himself.

NYAG could demand turn over all lists as part of the assets and make LaPierre not be allowed to lead or be a part of any non-profit board because of his criminal conduct...like they did with the Trumps.

Sure, but that would do nothing to prevent him from selling a copy of that list to interested third-parties. He wouldn't sit on a board, but he could net a tidy profit.

But the membership list isn't his property -- it's the NRA's. If he were to do that, wouldn't it be considered "theft by conversion" or something like that? And might that be criminal, especially in light of the value of the list?

Jim wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 4:52 pm

woodworker wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 4:14 pm I suspect that their most valuable assets once all the litigation is finalized will be their membership and mailing lists and I suspect that LaPierre has already made copies of those for himself.

NYAG could demand turn over all lists as part of the assets and make LaPierre not be allowed to lead or be a part of any non-profit board because of his criminal conduct...like they did with the Trumps.

The NYAG would not have the authority to impose such an order outside the state of New York. A federal judge could impose such an order, but she is suing the NRA in a NY court, isn't she?

LaPierre already wants to reincorporate in Texas, so I don't think that such an order by the NYAG would be any impediment to him.

The NRA membership list is going to be a very hot property and maybe too hot for some people to handle. The NRA has long preached against a govt registry of weapons, on the pretext that an oppressive regime or foreign invader could use such a registry to find most gun owners and confiscate their toys. But the NRA list served the same purpose and that fact is obvious to NRA members. It is entirely possible that anyone known or suspected to be in possession of a copy of the NRA list would be in danger from some hothead who wants to make sure the govt doesn't get its hands on the list.

neeneko wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 10:32 am

noblepa wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 9:32 am If the NY AG follows through on her threat to dissolve the NY non-profit corporation that is the NRA, what happens to their assets? They're a non-profit, so they have no stockholders to receive the assets.

Another related ponderance.. what happens to the insurance deals? One of the things that make the NRA so powerful and ubiquitous is that it is difficult to run a range without NRA associated insurance policies.

And what happens to the membership list and marketing information they've gathered on them?

Probably a lot of leads on people in NY that conveniently forgot to register their rifles in that data.

noblepa wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 5:08 pm The NYAG would not have the authority to impose such an order outside the state of New York. A federal judge could impose such an order, but she is suing the NRA in a NY court, isn't she?

I'm not sure what basis a federal judge would have for barring anyone from serving on a non-profit board. Non-profits are primarily regulated by State governments. A more interesting question is whether there is any degree of reciprocity among state regulatory agencies with respect to barring people from serving on a non-profit boards.

chancery wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 5:56 pm
I'm not sure what basis a federal judge would have for barring anyone from serving on a non-profit board. Non-profits are primarily regulated by State governments. A more interesting question is whether there is any degree of reciprocity among state regulatory agencies with respect to barring people from serving on a non-profit boards.

And would Texas follow them even if they exist...

I don't have time to read through them, but here is the section on Non-Profit Corporations from the Consolidated Laws of New York.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/NPC

It does contain laws on non-judicial dissolution and judicial dissolution along with receivership.

Oh, and Wayne taking the membership list for himself would have all sorts of issues. There is the obvious excessive benefit to a disqualified person (i.e. receiving benefits from the assets of an organization to which they had substantial influence) to start with though they have probably played loose with that one anyway. I am confident that their by-laws are either intentionally loose or ignored.

I just wonder why the board cannot realize that this guy is going to pull them down. They could kick him to the curb and maybe be able to work to reduce some of the disaster. They are entirely beholder to Wayne, not the NRA.

chancery wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 5:56 pm

noblepa wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 5:08 pm The NYAG would not have the authority to impose such an order outside the state of New York. A federal judge could impose such an order, but she is suing the NRA in a NY court, isn't she?

I'm not sure what basis a federal judge would have for barring anyone from serving on a non-profit board. Non-profits are primarily regulated by State governments. A more interesting question is whether there is any degree of reciprocity among state regulatory agencies with respect to barring people from serving on a non-profit boards.

I wasn't really suggesting that a federal judge would, or even could. I was merely pointing out that any order by a NY state judge or AG is unlikely to carry any weight in Texas.

northland10 wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 7:25 pm I just wonder why the board cannot realize that this guy is going to pull them down. They could kick him to the curb and maybe be able to work to reduce some of the disaster. They are entirely beholder to Wayne, not the NRA.

It's the Trump administration in miniature: the organization was long ago transformed into Wayne's personal piggy bank. The only way for that to happen is to get board members who are willing to turn a blind eye to his malfeasance. And the way that happens, of course, is to bring them in on the grift: shower them with some of the corrupt cash to buy their silence. Lots of board meetings in exotic locales. Hookers and blow. Or whatever else will cause them to abdicate real board responsibilities. The guy at the top can't be as flagrantly criminal as Wayne or Donald without the entire rest of the organization being as venal and corrupt.

When Ollie North was the NRA president and the blew whistle on LaPierre, LaPierre ran North out of town.

You know things are going well when the treasurer of a multi-million dollar corporation takes the Fifth Amendment rather than testify about what he's done with the corporation's money. You'd think that might be some kinda red flag for the membership, but no ...

Foggy wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 8:00 am You know things are going well when the treasurer of a multi-million dollar corporation takes the Fifth Amendment rather than testify about what he's done with the corporation's money. You'd think that might be some kinda red flag for the membership, but no ...

I try really hard to honor the Fifth Amendment's intent by not inferring guilt automatically from someone's invocation. As a criminal defense attorney, I know only too well that the wrong answer to a question could place a witness in very real legal jeopardy even if there's no "there" there. That being said, in the context of a non-criminal proceeding, I don't think it's any affront to the Constitution to infer that the treasurer of a major corporate organization invoking the Fifth Amendment is indicative that some sort of wrongdoing, whether criminal or civil, is likely to be taking place.

My suspicion for some time has been that the NRA was engaged in financial hanky-panky that could very well fall within the scope of the federal wire fraud statute (18 USC 1343). As I discussed on the old forum (may it rest in peace), 1343 is quite broad when compared with your typical notion of fraud. As long as money is moved or is supposed to be moved as part of a "scheme or artifice to defraud," 1343 applies. Success or failure of the scheme is immaterial. Put another way, no harm has to be demonstrated to anyone. Nor is it a defense if the victim doesn't care - this is why the We Build the Wall case had teeth before Trump pardoned Bannon. A defendant's fortuitous selection of willing dupes who don't care if they're being fleeced will not save him. Between Wayne LaPierre's living it up at the expense of his donors - far in excess of what even the well-compensated heads of other major advocacy groups take in - and the extremely questionable relationships with Ackerman McQueen and the tiny law firm that the NRA was paying ludicrously exorbitant fees, it sure looks like the NRA was more of a piggy bank for LaPierre and a coterie of his friends more than a legitimate interest group or lobbying organization. If my client were the treasurer of such an organization and he or she gets put under oath, you bet your ass they're taking five.

The NRA has DROPPED its countersuit against
@NewYorkStateAG
James, which she calls an "implicit admission that their strategy would never prevail."

"The truth is that Wayne LaPierre and his lieutenants used the NRA as a breeding ground for personal gain and a lavish lifestyle."

Tish James' legal victories are pretty impressive. She harbors no bullshit. Maybe we should send her after Joe Manchin and Kirsten Sinema next.

good plan

I doubt that the NRA's member database is worth as much as some people think it is. From what I have read over the last couple of years, the membership numbers for the NRA have been persistently pumped up and inflated over the years by the numerous "freebie" automatic memberships given out like sweeties via gun manufacturer offers and other one-time deals.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... numbers-1/

gshevlin2 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:31 pm I doubt that the NRA's member database is worth as much as some people think it is. From what I have read over the last couple of years, the membership numbers for the NRA have been persistently pumped up and inflated over the years by the numerous "freebie" automatic memberships given out like sweeties via gun manufacturer offers and other one-time deals.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... numbers-1/

Names and addresses and phone numbers of vulnerable people.

See the international computer aided scam thread.

gshevlin2 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:31 pm I doubt that the NRA's member database is worth as much as some people think it is. From what I have read over the last couple of years, the membership numbers for the NRA have been persistently pumped up and inflated over the years by the numerous "freebie" automatic memberships given out like sweeties via gun manufacturer offers and other one-time deals.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... numbers-1/

Gun ranges which are open to members only almost always have a requirement that members belong to the NRA, too.

keith wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:53 pm

gshevlin2 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:31 pm I doubt that the NRA's member database is worth as much as some people think it is. From what I have read over the last couple of years, the membership numbers for the NRA have been persistently pumped up and inflated over the years by the numerous "freebie" automatic memberships given out like sweeties via gun manufacturer offers and other one-time deals.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... numbers-1/

Names and addresses and phone numbers of vulnerable people.

See the international computer aided scam thread.

Names and addresses of people who didn't register their "assault" rifles as required by NY law.

Azastan wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:32 pm Gun ranges which are open to members only almost always have a requirement that members belong to the NRA, too.

I have this problem, best gun range in central GA is 15 miles from me, but I won't give any support to the NRA. I'm stuck using the one sent up by the park service.

Frater I*I wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:42 am

Azastan wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:32 pm Gun ranges which are open to members only almost always have a requirement that members belong to the NRA, too.

I have this problem, best gun range in central GA is 15 miles from me, but I won't give any support to the NRA. I'm stuck using the one sent up by the park service.

One reason why I would like to see the NRA Foundation separated from Wayne's nest egg, the regular NRA. The gun/range safety stuff is, IIRC, run by the foundation as an educational program (hence the charity) and has always been a useful part of the NRA. It needs to be blocked off from the greedy hands of the NRA leadership (officially and legally, it is supposed to anyway, but I have my doubts).