Fogbow

Suranis wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 1:39 pm So, in other words, more made up fuel for the Outrage industry.

Suranis wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:15 am By "the outrage industry" I'm talking about taking something that may or may bot have something problematic and then adding something to it to get people screaming and posing it all over. Its very much a left wing thing as well as a right wing thing.

A while back I used to debunk stuff people shared from Atheist blogs on facebook, which was rife with outright lies about what religious people said and what documents said, and boy howdy the attacks on me got really personal. People just want to believe the worst if it confirms their beliefs.

Ergo this "THIS BILL WILL STOP EMERGENCY CARE!!!" nonsense.

neeneko wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 10:12 am

Suranis wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 1:39 pm So, in other words, more made up fuel for the Outrage industry.

This gets into the problem of the need for specialized knowledge and trust networks for interpretation.

I tried reading the bill, but lack the domain knowledge to really understand it. I came away confused and found both interpretations plausible since, while I saw the specific targets the bill is aimed at, it also seemed like it did not really carve out exemptions for emergency care. Not knowing how things 'default', how it interacts with other laws, etc... mean people like me can't really trust our own intuition and depend on more experienced parties to frame it.

So we have people saying it could be applied to emergency care, and people saying it could not. We blame the outrage industry, but i can not help but suspect that bills are intentionally crafted to be unclear so that proponents and opponents can make it say whatever they want.

I kinda wish there was a rule that every bill must have a laymen's FAQ, and that courts would be required to adhere to it BEFORE the specific text of the bill.

1014.06 Parental consent for health care services.—

(1) Except as otherwise provided by law, a health care practitioner, as defined in s. 456.001, or an individual employed by such health care practitioner may not provide or solicit or arrange to provide health care services or prescribe medicinal drugs to a minor child without first obtaining written parental consent.

(2) Except as otherwise provided by law or a court order, a provider, as defined in s. 408.803, may not allow a medical procedure to be performed on a minor child in its facility without first obtaining written parental consent.

(3) This section does not apply to an abortion, which is governed by chapter 390.

(4) This section does not apply to services provided by a clinical laboratory, unless the services are delivered through a direct encounter with the minor at the clinical laboratory facility. For purposes of this subsection, the term "clinical laboratory" has the same meaning as provided in s. 483.803.

(5) A health care practitioner or other person who violates this section is subject to disciplinary action pursuant to s. 408.813 or s. 456.072, as applicable, and commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

Patagoniagirl wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 10:17 am It wasnt because you were trying to debunk. It was the attacking language you used often used in trying to do so.

F.S. 743.064 Emergency care or treatment of minors

The absence of parental consent notwithstanding, a physician licensed under chapter 458 or an osteopathic physician licensed under chapter 459 may render emergency medical care or treatment to any minor who has been injured in an accident or who is suffering from an acute illness, disease, or condition if, within a reasonable degree of medical certainty, delay in initiation or provision of emergency medical care or treatment would endanger the health or physical well-being of the minor, and provided such emergency medical care or treatment is administered in a hospital licensed by the state under chapter 395 or in a college health service. Emergency medical care or treatment may also be rendered in the prehospital setting by paramedics, emergency medical technicians, and other emergency medical services personnel, provided such care is rendered consistent with the provisions of chapter 401.

Suranis wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 10:42 am Now THAT is the real question. And what was the law on this in FLorida before the bill passed?

neonzx wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 10:35 am So what is the purpose of this bill? It looks like a solution in search of a problem.

Is the intent to target transgender minors, perhaps?

Chilidog wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 11:05 am Or maybe to target parents who are illegal immigrants

Suranis wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 10:24 am

Patagoniagirl wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 10:17 am It wasnt because you were trying to debunk. It was the attacking language you used often used in trying to do so.

I wish I could blame it so simply. No, I was actually fairly neutral when debunking things. It was simply "That's not true. Here what the thing actually says *Quote* *link*"

At which point I got blamed for everything from the Inquisition to Sex trafficing, and not a single person dealt with the fact that the outrage they were screaming about wasn't actually true.

Believe it or not, I've gotten pretty bitter over debunking in the last few years. I guess my faith in Humanity has been eroded.

roadscholar wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 7:25 pm Suranis, the Inquisition happened. Sexual abuse among the clegy happened. There ain’t no “debunking” that because it isn’t bunkum.

But you shouldn’t take it personally, or as a blanket indictment of the millions of good, decent Catholics in the world. And atheists are going to think your beliefs are garbage.

roadscholar wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 7:25 pm Suranis, the Inquisition happened. Sexual abuse among the clegy happened. There ain’t no “debunking” that because it isn’t bunkum.

But you shouldn’t take it personally, or as a blanket indictment of the millions of good, decent Catholics in the world. And atheists are going to think your beliefs are garbage.

roadscholar wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 5:42 pm Will they have access to the Jewish Space Lasers?

Asking for a friend (see avatar).

roadscholar wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 10:53 pm My buddy Pacino with his nose tight in my armpit. His favorite place.