Fogbow

Foggy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 12:27 pm

But the thing is, if someone calls themself a Christian, then they are, because it's about belief, not acts.

I disagree. I had this discussion with a woman who claimed that all she had to do was say that Christ was her personal savior and poof! She was a saved Christian. I think you gotta at least try to lead a Christian life using Christian principles. Heck, I'm not even a Christian (agnostic here) but I was taught to live my life according to Christian principles, and I still sorta do, if I'm being honest.

But being a Christian is not, or at least should not, be an easy thing. Being a real Christian is hard work. I don't know about other religions.

I'm with Rolodex here. Trying to define "Christian" is a dead end, because there are as many definitions as there are denominations. Which is one of the reasons I have doubts about "Christian Nationalist" as a term that has legs.

I wish they would just register a party name and be done with it. Then they use their so-called righteous belief to maim and terrorize, in the traditional fashion. And leave my friends who use the term Christian with grace, and who actually care about human rights and community, alone.

Suranis wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:18 pm
I will just point out that when someone, in the middle of a massive pile on in Oldbow showed me a link to Final Report of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada into the Indian Residential schools, the same person posted that I was trying to whitewash the Church. Because I did what no-one else had done... I read it. And I accepted what it said, good and bad, And I started quoting what it actually said. Rather than sticking to the delusions about what it MUST say.

qbawl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 11:29 pm I have to side with Sam on this one. Atheists are a diverse group. Our universal dogma is a lack of dogma and no need for a 'supreme' being to dictate or even inform morality.

I find the fairly new meme by theists that "Atheism is a religion" to be amusing. It's meant to be an insult I suppose. If being compared to theists is the best insult a theist can cough up I think that says a lot more about what theists think about themselves than it does atheists and agnostics. Pardon me while I go pray on my knees to the Almighty Christopher Hitchens.

I take the pretty obvious position that the defining feature of this group we're calling CN or C-F or MAGA is _not_ any Christianity, by any common definition. (NB: I feel the same way about a large swath of those who call themselves Evangelicals, also.)

So what do people think are the defining features?

A lack of critical thinking?
Racist and xenophobic tendencies?
Authoritarian personality (meaning they like to be told what to do)?

???

Authoritariansim, esp of the patriarchal type. These folks don't like other names for God, like Creator, Mother, etc. They are very binary in gendering (which explains all their crazy laws about bathrooms, etc). Same groups who blame young women for "tempting" clergy when the clergy abuse them. All these folks are what I'd call a "high control" group. The binary thinking extends to their understanding of the Bible (as I talked about above). They like one, easy to understand, ultimate authority on how to live, and men make the decisions about what all that entails. But having clear black and white answers is a comfort to a lot of people and questioning things makes them uncomfortable. And there you have all the book ban folks, the trans kids in sports folks, the no women clergy folks, the anti-DEI folks.

Here's a Bulwark pod with Tim Miller interviewing the authors of "White Rural Rage, the Biggest Threat to American Democracy."

Note that the authors say that the book is actually about White Rural Resentment, but alas, that didn't make a good cover, and the publisher overruled.

This is the best attempt I've seen lately to actually discuss the reality that MAGA voters are ignorant, arrogant, and have some nasty policy preferences. Good on them.

They start off by reminding us that goddam rural white male voters get an unfair share of the power. They move on to point out that even though they think Dems have "forgotten them", Republicans do absolutely nothing for them (this has been a talking point of mine for years).

They also make the point that thinking you’re a victim is the biggest indicator for supporting fuckhead. A fact that can't be mentioned often enough, IMO.

Worth a listen, especially the first half hour.

Christian Nationalism, christofascism, Qnon, maga, all are aggressive and nasty forms of societal cancer.

We need to treat them appropriately.

That's definitely a piece of it. But I also have friends who voted happily for Trump in 2016. Some even went to rallies. These are doctors, lawyers, other very high wealth business people with advanced degrees, well-traveled folks. I don't know what they did in 2020 because by then all of them stopped talking politics on facebook and my personal acquaintances have stopped talking about it, too. One was flying his DeSantis flag on his boat last summer (not sure what he did with his trump flag).

I do want to read that book. There's a group in NC called Dirt Road Democrats. They may be more places, but there needs to be more of that so rural folks can maybe learn about how they're being screwed.

Rolodex wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 6:18 pm That's definitely a piece of it. But I also have friends who voted happily for Trump in 2016. Some even went to rallies. These are doctors, lawyers, other very high wealth business people with advanced degrees, well-traveled folks. I don't know what they did in 2020 because by then all of them stopped talking politics on facebook and my personal acquaintances have stopped talking about it, too. One was flying his DeSantis flag on his boat last summer (not sure what he did with his trump flag).

I do want to read that book. There's a group in NC called Dirt Road Democrats. They may be more places, but there needs to be more of that so rural folks can maybe learn about how they're being screwed.

It's not an intelligence deficiency, it is a distinct lack of morals. Throw in the Prosperity Theologians (in a Ven diagram of the 4 groups I listed and PT adherents, the circles are indistinguishable) and they just do not possess the character to be part of a decent society.

The Intellectualist @highbrow_nobrow wrote: Christian Nationalist boasts about not letting his wife read books because he doesn't want her to "outpace" him. @Meltart.

Too late.

Gilead-Speak.

I've heard it said that testosterone is the most dangerous drug on the planet. And he meant the natural variety, also.