Fogbow

Possibly interesting history / comment / opinion about Crimea.

“The Crimea Catalyst”:
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/the-crimea-catalyst/

I want Russia to have to pay for every building, window, car, apartment, and tree they destroy. I want them to pay reparations to every person that had to leave their home, either because their home was destroyed or because they left in an effort to try to save their lives. I have hated putin for years and now I want him to die a long, slow, agonizing death. I hear there are supplies of Novichok in Russia.

RVInit wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:51 am I want Russia to have to pay for every building, window, car, apartment, and tree they destroy. I want them to pay reparations to every person that had to leave their home, either because their home was destroyed or because they left in an effort to try to save their lives. I have hated putin for years and now I want him to die a long, slow, agonizing death. I hear there are supplies of Novichok in Russia.

And pay reparations to every country that opened their doors for refugees. Every home that welcomed dislocated people.

John Thomas8 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:56 am

RVInit wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:51 am I want Russia to have to pay for every building, window, car, apartment, and tree they destroy. I want them to pay reparations to every person that had to leave their home, either because their home was destroyed or because they left in an effort to try to save their lives. I have hated putin for years and now I want him to die a long, slow, agonizing death. I hear there are supplies of Novichok in Russia.

And pay reparations to every country that opened their doors for refugees. Every home that welcomed dislocated people.

This.

And pay for all the weapons that every country donated to Ukraine, and all the weapons Ukraine already owned, weapons that had to be used to fight off the aggressor. They should have to pay for every single penny every country, including Ukraine, had to spend on protecting Ukraine from Russian aggression. And putin himself should be brought up on charges, he is an international war criminal.

I continue to be amazed at how the Ukrainians have rallied together in the face of a seemingly much more powerful foe.

Virsky Ukrainian National Folk Dance Ensemble is a Ukrainian dance company based out of Ukraine, notable for its innovative approach to the art form. The ensemble was founded in 1937 by Pavlo Virsky and Mykola Bolotov, and guided by Virsky until his death in 1975

You guys will probably like this.

RVInit wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:51 am I want Russia to have to pay for every building, window, car, apartment, and tree they destroy. I want them to pay reparations to every person that had to leave their home, either because their home was destroyed or because they left in an effort to try to save their lives. I have hated putin for years and now I want him to die a long, slow, agonizing death. I hear there are supplies of Novichok in Russia.

Yeah, I agree.

But remember the last time 'we' completely humiliated a country and made them pay war reparations for years and years and years.

We can't do the same thing 'we' did in 1917.

Uninformed wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:56 pm Possibly interesting history / comment / opinion about Crimea.

“The Crimea Catalyst”:
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/the-crimea-catalyst/

This is a more informed version of an argument I was laying out on another forum earlier today.

Putin has pretty much achieved his goal (final control of Donbas and a land bridge to Crimea) for THIS phase. Odesa would be nice for him, but he can use it as a bargaining chip for now. And both Moldova and Georgia have been put on notice.

If anyone actually believes that Putin meant the Russians to get their shit kicked in, and this was a "phase," then I don't know what to tell them. The Russians never mentioned anything about a "phase" until yesterday.

When Lukeshenko in Belerus showed off "the plan" a month ago he never mentioned any phases.

What Putin wanted to was to overrun Ukraine and "return" it to Russia. He was quite clear in his aims before the war happened. He wanted to smash the whole idea of a separate Ukraine.

And when the Russians showed off their big map yesterday, they showed having less territory in the north and more in the south than they actually have.

They made up the crap about "phases" yesterday. The Russians did what they always do - Line up an impressive row of Generals with lots of Medals, and then lie their asses off.

Whats actually happening is that the Russians are out of steam, have no trucks to transport anyone, cant supply the troops they have, and need to save face. Ukraine is about 2-3 weeks from committing fresh troops in theater as they finish training their returning ex-pats and Foreign Volunteers, so the Russians have to dig in and fortify what gains they have made before they get smashed.

It wasn't meant to go like this.

“Katty Kay: The danger of wishful Western thinking”:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60881915

Yeah, Suranis, true enough.
I had commented a couple weeks ago (about a week after I had myself suggested an exit strategy for Putin) that Putin didn’t actually need to achieve anything or need a tangible concession from Ukraine— all he had to do was declare, “Mission Accomplished.”
Make up some accomplishment: getting rid of Nazis, for example… and his propoganda machine could take over and wag the dog.

keith wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:25 am

RVInit wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:51 am I want Russia to have to pay for every building, window, car, apartment, and tree they destroy. I want them to pay reparations to every person that had to leave their home, either because their home was destroyed or because they left in an effort to try to save their lives. I have hated putin for years and now I want him to die a long, slow, agonizing death. I hear there are supplies of Novichok in Russia.

Yeah, I agree.

But remember the last time 'we' completely humiliated a country and made them pay war reparations for years and years and years.

We can't do the same thing 'we' did in 1917.

Oil Revenue. In 1917 the allies basically took everything of value and then said "you still owe us X billion marks". Iraq paid back Kuwait by I think paying $4 per barrel of oil sold until they paid off a set amount. Russia could do much the same thing, end even index it when oil goes up, only let them keep the first say $60 a barrel and pay $5 a barrel of every one sold until the price gets that high, at which point all of it goes to pay off the debt. By that measure, the impact on the Russsian economy is minimal, it allows them to operate their economy much as they have, and when it gets high they don't get windfall profits.
Also too, strip the Oligarchs of their holdings and relist all of it on the Russian Stock Echange, with shares only being sold to transparent Russian people and citizens and a limit on how much anyone can buy, so you create a middle class and eliminate the crooks who basically stole all the industry when the Soviet Union fell. Russians are gonna have billions of near worthless rubles when this is over, one way to fix that problem is to sell the holdings of the oligarchs' nationalized shares for rubles only. Lets the poor Russian guy with Wiemer like levels of rubles convert them into hard currency buy buying shares in say, Gazprom, which will pay him dividends in dollars.

At one point the Russians were talking about compensating Ukrainians at a thousand rubles each -- a thousand sounds impressive but it turns out that the ruble is so weak that a thousand rubles equals a mere one hundred dollars US.

Russian compensation and reparations cannot be allowed to be paid in rubles. Insist on EU Euros and at least ten thousand dollars worth per recipient.

USD 10.00 actually. Today.

(Though I disagreed that 1000 anything sounds impressive.)

keith wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:25 am We can't do the same thing 'we' did in 1917.

yeah, the whole question of how to end a war in the modern era is still an open one, with a string of failures behind us. Sadly, there is no great template that anyone has found yet.

Bellingcat can confirm that three members of the delegation attending the peace talks between Ukraine and Russia on the night of 3 to 4 March 2022 experienced symptoms consistent with poisoning with chemical weapons. One of victims was Russian entrepreneur Roman Abramovich.

Thread at the link.

And so much for Peace Tanks, eh?

Phuck them, every one. Surround the 41st Army and starve it beyond military effectiveness and do something Putin can't withstand, mock him on the world stage. Tell him you've digested one Army, does he want to send another? Offer to cease hostilities, if Russia gives up Volga, Siberia and the Russian Far East. Post online an index of Russian dead being cared for my Ukraine and offer to assist Russian families to recover their loved ones, before the Russian Army digs a mass grave and throws them in.
Then, demand $5 a barrel in reparations form every barrel of oil Russia sells. Demand they leave all the equipment they used to try to invade and demand they return the nuclear weapons Ukraine gifted to Russia with the assurance the signatories of that treaty would protect them.



It wasn't a slip of the tongue, it was a warning.