Fogbow

I think the taxability to the recipient comes down to whether or not you received something of value for the "gift" given. If I give $100 to my sister, it's out of love with nothing expected in return. If I give $100,000 to the head of the Michigan Election Committee to pay for the lawyer he'll need if he refuses to certify the 2020 election, that would be taxable income to him. If I treat a Supreme Court Justice to a lavish vacation with the expectation that he'll rule in favor of my industry when the case comes before him, that is income to the Supreme Court Justice. At least, in my humble opinion.

Clarence of SCOTUS says otherwise
(Unless you give him a sufficiently impressive gift)

It does often seem that a tax issues tend to lie upon the benefit received by the giver (directly or indirectly).

I can trace my current place in life partially to the same gift rules. I received a gift from my grandmother when her and my dad decided distribute funds while she was still around thinking it would be more useful then. That gift was a deciding factor to leave the teaching job and go to graduate school full-time for the church music work as it provided the initial funding.

Because of the gift limits at the time, there was a smaller amount in a later year.

I suspect some folks will distribute smaller parts of their estates prior to passing to reduce certain estate tax requirements.

An interesting fact: If you give a gift over the annual limit in a year, you are required to file a gift tax return. What's the penalty for not filing that return? It's based on the tax owed by giving that gift. If there is no gift tax owed, there is no penalty due, therefore there really is no incentive to file a gift tax return. I was discussing this with my estate lawyer and he told me of an instance where an estate tax return was filed. The person preparing it had no idea of gifts given in prior years. The IRS, however, had the old gift tax returns on file and so made corrections to that estate tax return.

My favorite line in Lindell's new loss (holiday reference: they made mincemeat of him):

The magistrate judge aptly called this “the type of subpoena somebody issues when they have no idea really what they’re looking for.”

I remember his fishing counties across the country, it was a ridiculous idea. Good he's paying for hassling these election workers.

BUT.... But..... but.... they were looking for votes

MN-Skeptic wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 3:59 pm An interesting fact: If you give a gift over the annual limit in a year, you are required to file a gift tax return. What's the penalty for not filing that return? It's based on the tax owed by giving that gift. If there is no gift tax owed, there is no penalty due, therefore there really is no incentive to file a gift tax return. I was discussing this with my estate lawyer and he told me of an instance where an estate tax return was filed. The person preparing it had no idea of gifts given in prior years. The IRS, however, had the old gift tax returns on file and so made corrections to that estate tax return.

As currently structured, gift or estate tax is not owed until the aggregate amount transferred (via lifetime gift and through transfers at death) exceeds $12.92 million (in 2023 - it is indexed for inflation and goes up every year), or $25.84 million for a couple.

While there is no civil penalty for failing to file a gift tax return if no tax is due, if a taxpayer knew of the filing obligation and simply elected not file, that is technically a criminal offense (a failure to file a tax return - a misdemeanor under 27 USC Section 7207), irrespective of the fact that there is no tax due. While the chances of being prosecuted for such a crime are vanishingly small (unless you have a target painted on your chest for some other reason), there is no reason not to comply with the law.

On the civil side, a wealthy taxpayer (who may someday be paying gift or estate taxes) has an incentive to file a gift tax return if the property being gifted does not have an easily determinable market value. This is because filing a return starts the three year statute of limitations for the IRS to make adjustments to the value of the property.

Suppose I gifted a half interest in my ranch* to my granddaughter in 2015 and valued the gift at $500,000. If this valuation were not challenged by the IRS within 3 years, then, when the IRS audited my estate tax return in 2024 after my untimely death, they could not say the value of the half interest in the ranch at the time of transfer was really $1 million, and increase the estate tax.

* IRL I do not have a ranch or a granddaughter.

northland10 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 3:37 pm I suspect some folks will distribute smaller parts of their estates prior to passing to reduce certain estate tax requirements.

For taxpayers who may not owe federal estate tax, there may also be state estate tax considerations. For example, rather than the $12.92 million lifetime exemption amount at the federal level, Washington State only exempts $2.193 million before the state estate tax applies. However, because there is no tax on lifetime gifts in Washington, there is an incentive to transfer assets in lifetime gifts prior to death.

IANAL, not am I a CPA, IRS Registered Agent or any other kind of tax expert, but I thought that unless an individual can show that there is a "gifting relationship" between the giver and the receiver, the money is taxable. A "gifting relationship" is one in which gifts are normally given, such as between married couples, parents and children or between siblings.

IOW, you can't just call something a gift, in order to avoid paying taxes on the income.

noblepa wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 9:13 pm IANAL, not am I a CPA, IRS Registered Agent or any other kind of tax expert, but I thought that unless an individual can show that there is a "gifting relationship" between the giver and the receiver, the money is taxable. A "gifting relationship" is one in which gifts are normally given, such as between married couples, parents and children or between siblings.

IOW, you can't just call something a gift, in order to avoid paying taxes on the income.

Here's the IRS definition of a gift...

What is considered a gift?

Any transfer to an individual, either directly or indirectly, where full consideration (measured in money or money's worth) is not received in return.

Frequently Asked Questions on Gift Taxes

There's no mention of any particular relationship between the giver and the receiver. You just have to pay gift taxes, if any, on gifts.

ETA: Oh, also...

Who pays the gift tax?

The donor is generally responsible for paying the gift tax. Under special arrangements the donee may agree to pay the tax instead. Please visit with your tax professional if you are considering this type of arrangement.

noblepa wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 9:13 pm IANAL, not am I a CPA, IRS Registered Agent or any other kind of tax expert, but I thought that unless an individual can show that there is a "gifting relationship" between the giver and the receiver, the money is taxable. A "gifting relationship" is one in which gifts are normally given, such as between married couples, parents and children or between siblings.

IOW, you can't just call something a gift, in order to avoid paying taxes on the income.

Look at it this way. Consider GoFundMe, which are personal asks for help. There is no "gifting relationship" between giver and receiver. GFM does a reasonable good job of monitoring transactions. (they did miss the grift of "We Build The Wall" unfortunately)

I have given much money over the years through GoFundMe campaigns but never been called out by the IRS.

neonzx wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2023 1:29 am Look at it this way. Consider GoFundMe, which are personal asks for help. There is no "gifting relationship" between giver and receiver. GFM does a reasonable good job of monitoring transactions. (they did miss the grift of "We Build The Wall" unfortunately)

The gift/estate tax definition of gift for purposes of the gift tax filing requirement is expansive, basically capturing most transfers that are not in exchange for adequate consideration, irrespective of the transferor's donative intent.

The income tax exclusion for gifts received (section 102 of the Internal Revenue Code) is somewhat narrower. It has been interpreted by the Supreme Court to require "detached and disinterested generosity," only encompassing transfers made "out of affection, respect, admiration, charity or like impulses." (Commissioner v. Duberstein, 363 U.S. 278 (1960)).

There is no requirement of a "gifting relationship" between donor and recipient to meet the income tax exclusion. If someone on the Fogbow were to fall on hard times and other Fogbow members sent that person funds to pay rent out charitable impulses, it would not matter that there was no pre-existing "gifting relationship" or even that the members had no idea who that person was in real life. The amounts would still be excludable under section 102.

With respect to GoFundMe, I think GFM is likely to err on the side of overreporting transfers to the beneficiary, who likely will then be left to explain to the IRS why what they received are gifts, rather than taxable income. (This probably amounts to placing a disclosure statement on a tax return - I would hazard to guess that relatively few are actually audited.)

Too also: I would wager Clements got caught crossing the line, e.g., "Your 'donations' will help me continue this fight."

Foggy is a genius. While we were all dazzled by the unbelievable savings on MySlippers, Foggy wisely held out. Even with 100 pairs in a shopping cart at mypillow.com, which on their Windows 97 inventory software must have caused issues, Foggy wasn't swayed, even by the electrifying deal and public pressure (FOMO!). Now Newsweek has come out with a story that vindicates his decision!

Mike Lindell's Products Are Getting Terrible Reviews
Story by Kate Plummer 1w

Mike Lindell's products are getting terrible reviews online. The businessman and ally of former President Donald Trump is the founder and CEO of MyPillow, which sells bedding, towels, clothing and footwear.

The company enjoys broadly positive reviews on its own website, with one review describing men's slip-ons as "fantastic" and another describing men's moccasins as "very comfortable and durable."

But reviews on the website Trustpilot tell a different story, with people recently posting complaints about the quality of MyPillow products including slippers.

One review posted earlier this month said: "Your slippers started falling apart after just a couple of months. The rubber is brittle and the quality is crap. I would not recommend these slippers to anyone."

Another review from November said: "My husband purchased my slippers at Christmas 2022. Paid alot [sic] of money, less than one year later the rubber around the slipper is cracking and falling off. They are a very soft slipper, but the rubber is really bad. I would love to submit photos but I don't know where."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/compani ... r-AA1lR5Dx

Foggy WINS again! He won't gloat, but his quiet confidence shines through.

The rubber is brittle? Do not buy MyCondoms

That literally made me LOL.

RTH10260 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 9:54 am The rubber is brittle? Do not buy MyCondoms

Why do I have this terrible vision of a bunch of yahoos using MyCondoms and 9 months later a mini-me Mike Lindell pops out complete with greasy hair and mustache.

Ok.

It's showtime in the Zeidman lawsuit.

Wednesday, Jan, 3, 2024, 10:00 am, in Minneapolis.

Why is Parker still representing Lumpy? I thought they dropped him as a client.

Chilidog, any word on what happened?


Monday it starts -- sweet Lou Dobbs will host a nightly show on Lindell TV! Mike gave up his timeslot, "Lou Dobbs Tonight" (how creative) will be on at 6pm. For everybody who missed Lou spewing racism, hate and lies, he's back! Seems like about 100 people watch Lindell TV so Dobbs will get the attention he deserves.

Sweet Lou and Mike have been paling around for a while, Dobbs was at his summit and they were licking each other. Mike told the story that Sweet Lou said he'd get his own plane ticket and hotel for the summit and Mike said, "Great because I'm broke". They are all liars. Wonder how much Sweet Lou is getting from Mike for this fabulous new show?


Wanted to be among the first to congratulate Sweet Lou -- only 24 comments so far. Hope he takes it in the spirit it was given:

Luke Johnson @Orly_licious 3s
Lindell TV is the ideal place for you, Lou. Mike Lindell giving up his own timeslot for you is a big mark of respect. Folks have missed you. The racism, bigotry, lying, election denying... thanks to Donald, there's a growing market for what you're selling. We'll be watching!

No clue.

FABULOUS UPDATE: SWEET LOU LIKED THE TWEET!




As long as you tell them what they want to hear in the first few sentences, you can get away with anything. Told ya!

How is Lou being paid? Lindell is broke.

Shirley all his hosts will have their own Patreon accounts