Fogbow

That's not actually true.Some Catholics do but its not any kind of rule.

https://www.forkliftandpalate.com/manhe ... %20allowed.

What to Eat During Lent

On Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, Catholics fast, meaning they eat less than usual. Most adults give up snacking and generally eat only one main meal and two smaller meals during the day. Also, on Ash Wednesday, Good Friday and all Fridays during Lent, adult Catholics over the age of 14 abstain from eating meat. During these days, it is not acceptable to eat lamb, chicken, beef, pork, ham, deer and most other meats. However, eggs, milk, fish, grains, and fruits and vegetables are all allowed.

There are exceptions. For example, pregnant women, the ill, the elderly and very young are exempt from Lent rules of fasting.

Many people also give up something for the entire Lent period. Some Catholics give up a favorite treat, such as chicken or chocolate, while others give up a habit, such as watching TV. If you are giving up meat or food for Lent, you will not be able to eat this food for Ash Wednesday and the 40 days following.

Suranis wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:07 am That's not actually true.Some Catholics do but its not any kind of rule.

Isn't that what is commonly called "Cafeteria Catholics" -- picking and choosing what they are going to follow (and this in no means is singling out Catholics because this occurs within and across most all organized religions).

Although I am now a card carrying atheist. I grew up in the catholic church and attended 13 years of catholic schools, graduating in 1964. Back then the prohibition of meat on Fridays was a year around phenomenon not just lent or advent.

The eating meat on Friday thing is one of my great bugaboos. I was taught it was a MORTAL sin for which I would burn in hell forever and a week! Let me be very clear on this in my Junior year in HS I was threatened with expulsion and perhaps a turn on the 'rack' for preaching heresy. What was my transgression? Well all during HS I worked at my cities largest sports and entertainment complex. NBA basketball, AHL hockey, roller derby, conventions, church revivals, The Beatles, Rodeos, Circuses and 100s of other concerts and things. Often because of quick transitions I would work late into the night (rodeo to hockey was a gasser) so during a discussion in religion class I said if I got off work @ 2:00 AM on a Friday morning and was hungry I would eat a burger and avoid meat for the next 24 hours. Note I picked 2:00 AM because where I lived there was a "get out of jail free card" because of where we sat in our time zone. You could start your Friday clock @ 12:01 AM or at 1:34 AM (or thereabouts) because of true sun time. So I was sent home and had to have my mother appeal to the powers to be (against my wishes)to be reinstated. I was given a 60% FAIL for that qtr. in that class. So, yeah I'm sure I was taught that eating meat on Friday was the gravest of mortal sins.

Thing is I have been told in subsequent years (by a priest and some but very few contemporaries) that: Oh no they never taught that! It was always just a church rule to which I say BULLSHIT!

I think it is also a matter of when, where, and who the bishop and priest are at the time. While I am younger (and am not Roman Catholic), I have not found the RC to be the same thing in all places. There are variations and different priorities on 'expectations' for Lenten discipline, and with other church disciplines.

A lot of Catholic parishes around here hold fish fries on Ash Wednesday and Fridays in Lent. I assume this is common around the country. So if they are allowed to eat corned beef on St. Patrick's Day, March 17 will be a good day to go. The lines where we go to get fish are out the door in a huge church. Maybe something less of a wait this year? Unless St. Gabriel's decides to offer corned beef, too, that day.

My annual post that before my brother was married, he always gave up celibacy for Lent. After marrying a good Catholic girl, he gives up pizza for Lent.

Though I am an atheist, I would set a positive goal for Lent, like daily meditation or reading certain books.

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 1:21 pm My annual post that before my brother was married, he always gave up celibacy for Lent. After marrying a good Catholic girl, he gives up pizza for Lent.

I think I would like to hangout out with your bro.

neonzx wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:16 am

Suranis wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:07 am That's not actually true.Some Catholics do but its not any kind of rule.

Isn't that what is commonly called "Cafeteria Catholics" -- picking and choosing what they are going to follow (and this in no means is singling out Catholics because this occurs within and across most all organized religions).

Off Topic

And I'm Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic -- at least that is what my baptismal cert says. I'm some hybrid mutt.

Nope. Its not a rule that you have to abstain from meat on Fridays during Lent.

Ash Wednesday is one of two yearly days of obligatory fasting and abstinence for Roman Catholics, along with Good Friday. According to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, the norms of fasting are obligatory from age 18 until age 59.

Fasting means a person is permitted to eat one full meal. Two smaller meals may also be taken, but they are not to equal that of a full meal.

The rule of abstinence from meat is binding upon Catholics aged 14 and onwards.

Members of the Eastern Catholic Churches are to observe the particular law of their own sui iuris Church.

For those outside the age limits, Canon Law notes that “Pastors of souls and parents are to ensure that even those who by reason of their age are not bound by the law of fasting and abstinence, are taught the true meaning of penance.”

Additionally, the USCCB Questions and Answers about Lent page states the non-age related exemptions.

“Those that are excused from fast and abstinence outside the age limits include the physically or mentally ill including individuals suffering from chronic illnesses such as diabetes. Also excluded are pregnant or nursing women. In all cases, common sense should prevail, and ill persons should not further jeopardize their health by fasting.”

The other obligatory day of fasting and abstinence is Good Friday, the day on which Catholics remember the death of Jesus on the cross. On the U.S. Bishops website, they explain the Good Friday fast should, when possible, last through the Easter Vigil on Holy Saturday nightlic Bishops, the norms of fasting are obligatory from age 18 until age 59.

https://www.thecatholictelegraph.com/re ... lent/21603

There might be local traditions and so on, but its no hard rule. I know no-one wants to believe me as usual, but its the truth.

I grew up Protestant, but my church (Hungarian Reformed Church, United Church of Christ) observed Good Friday as meatless, although we ate meat all the other Fridays in Lent. I assume that that's because Hungary is basically a Catholic country. I'm not an observant Christian anymore, but I cannot make myself eat meat on Good Friday, and I don't let anyone else in the family either. No other churches I went to as an adult (Presbyterian and Methodist) observed a meatless Good Friday, but that didn't matter.

Also, since I know this has been the elephant in the room and a desperate source of anguish among you all - I just saw this on facebook.

I think the rule is, you cut out the meat on Fridays and then add in a couple pints o' brew. (My actual last name is Lynch -for real)

I guess you all are just trying to troll me at this point.

Suranis, I really don't see trolling here, but most folks are just ruminating on meatless Fridays, which has a cultural history here in the US. It was practiced enough here that, to this day, some food service organizations do fish on Fridays. This was an old cultural thing done since there was always enough Roman Catholics who practiced meatless Friday it became easiest to just do fish on Friday for everybody.

My understanding is the US church pre-Vatican II followed a fair amount of stricter rules than they do now and may have been stricter than in Europe.

All of this reminds me that because it is Lent, Culver's has Walleye again and Popeye's usually brings back their flounder sandwiches. Even though I am not Roman Catholic (whether there is a rule or not), I also tend to have fish on Fridays. I am not sure why I do it (I grew up Quaker), but still, I enjoy the walleye and other fish.

I grew up with pre-Vatican II rules then transitioned through the Ecumenical Council.

Suranis wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 6:01 pm I guess you all are just trying to troll me at this point.

Certainly not trolling you, bro!! But we are in a message thread that includes the word "threadjack" in the title.

I'm not lying when I said my actual grandfathers name was Lynch and was Irish. We figured that out when two of my siblings had DNA tests done and we pieced it together after grandma died. I don't make a very good Irishman except I like beer. I don't like to fight. But I guess it makes me an Irish-Catholic with Eastern European roots. I'm a mutt, like I've said.

Lenten meatless Fridays are a major thing in the Pittsburgh and Western PA area. It's not just the Catholic churches. Fire stations, Vet posts, and other organizations do it. Restaurants all do Friday fish specials. All the TV stations publish the list of churches and organizations doing them, and lots of people have their favorites. They are major fund raisers. One church in the North Hills said on the news last week that they raise $70,000 a year with their fish fries (or broiled).

We were out for dinner on Friday and had pork chops, but plan to go to St. Gabriel's next Friday. It will be fish, pierogies, mac and cheese, and lots of other meatless choices. And we will happily wait in line however long it takes!

AndyinPA wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:47 pm We were out for dinner on Friday and had pork chops, but plan to go to St. Gabriel's next Friday. It will be fish, pierogies, mac and cheese, and lots of other meatless choices. And we will happily wait in line however long it takes!

Oh NOES. You may have made an error.
I do not believe it is "pierogies" -- I think you Americans added the "es" or "ys". Pierogi. Do you call spaghetti spaghetties? Respect your polish/ukranian neighbors.

northland10 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 8:09 pm Suranis, I really don't see trolling here, but most folks are just ruminating on meatless Fridays, which has a cultural history here in the US. It was practiced enough here that, to this day, some food service organizations do fish on Fridays. This was an old cultural thing done since there was always enough Roman Catholics who practiced meatless Friday it became easiest to just do fish on Friday for everybody.

My (very definitely) non-religious high school always had fish on the cafeteria menu on Fridays.

neonzx wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 11:07 pm

AndyinPA wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:47 pm We were out for dinner on Friday and had pork chops, but plan to go to St. Gabriel's next Friday. It will be fish, pierogies, mac and cheese, and lots of other meatless choices. And we will happily wait in line however long it takes!

Oh NOES. You may have made an error.
I do not believe it is "pierogies" -- I think you Americans added the "es" or "ys". Pierogi. Do you call spaghetti spaghetties? Respect your polish/ukranian neighbors.

Damned spellcheck.

Azastan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 11:12 pm My (very definitely) non-religious high school always had fish on the cafeteria menu on Fridays.

My public elementary school, in the 60s, always served fish on Fridays.

The town in which I grew up in SE Massachusetts had a large Roman Catholic population. On Fridays the school lunches were either tuna salad on a hot dog roll or fish sticks. For years.

The tuna salad was OK but the fish sticks were awful even though they were locally sourced fish. Pretty sure that the fish in them was the lowest quality that the fish company couldn't sell to anyone but school cafeterias and jails.

You folks have covered it pretty well - fish on Fridays is a cultural tradition in the US (and Australia - I don't have a reference point for Europe), rooted originally in religious practice, especially Roman Catholic practice, but adopted across the board, Catholic, Protestant, no religion, probably even Jewish).

Supposedly, it's meant to be a symbolic 'sacrifice', but I could never see how skipping meat on one day of the week and eating fish instead was any kind of a sacrifice at all. I mean I like fish, and like they say, a change is as good as a holiday. How is going on holiday a sacrifice?

I find it MUCH more likely that the tradition formed as support for the fishing fleets returning on Friday from a week at sea.

All this Friday fish talk reminded of Father Guido Sarducci on SNL Weekend Update with Jane Curtin and Bill Murray. During his bit he held up a fried shrimp key chain and said it represented nostalgia for the old days, TGIF. I remember laughing really hard when he did that. I tried to find a clip to share but there doesn't seem to be one, only a transcript of the segment. Carrie Fisher: 11/18/78: Weekend Update with Jane Curtin & Bill Murray

I was raised Methodist but haven't practiced any religion since I became an adult. Many years ago, just for fun and because I could, I got online ordained in the Universal Life Church.

keith wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:33 am You folks have covered it pretty well - fish on Fridays is a cultural tradition in the US (and Australia - I don't have a reference point for Europe), rooted originally in religious practice, especially Roman Catholic practice, but adopted across the board, Catholic, Protestant, no religion, probably even Jewish).

Certainly it was a cultural tradition for some families in Britain decades ago, at least up to the 1980s-ish. I think if you look at food offerings for public institutions such as hospitals, prisons, etc. now you will always find fish (usually fish & chips) at the top of Friday's menu

In Scandinavia I haven't noticed, but I perhaps don't pay attention.

keith wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:33 am I find it MUCH more likely that the tradition formed as support for the fishing fleets returning on Friday from a week at sea.

Essentially, yes. It was initially a suggestion to support the Portuguese fishing industry that turned into doctrine. While Fasting using fish has a long tradition way before New Testament times, the real imputes was the fact that when Henry VIII broke with Rome (Yes we are back to Henry's Penis again, sorry Anglicans) suddenly eating fish became political and Papist, so the revenues of the fishing industry collapsed. So "forcing" people to keep eating fish was a good way to support the fishing industry.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/20 ... -on-friday

You also have to remember that at one point it was a law in England and Ireland that workers could not be fed Salmon more than twice a week, so people were sick of Fish up here. At the time Salmon was so thick in rivers that you could just drag them out with a net, so it was a cheap way to feed your workers, but it want exactly healthy for hard working people. Too much fish is worse than too little. But the fact is people were really really sick of fish as the article shows.

By the time Henry ascended the throne in 1509, fish dominated the menu for a good part of the year. As one 15th century English schoolboy lamented in his notebook: "Though wyll not beleve how werey I am off fysshe, and how moch I desir to that flesch were cum in ageyn."