Britney Spears Conservatorship

[zekeb]

I dated a man once that worked for the Clerk of Court. He had an interesting "side duty" that went with his job - he audited every single guardianship for the whole county so the guardians couldn't line their and their friends pockets. Unfortunately, not every county in Florida has that kind of arrangement. I think all jurisdictions should have a "disinterested" party auditing the guardianship/conservatorship. just my two cents.

By law Peggy March's parents were not allowed to manage her earnings. Nonetheless, she lost it all through the acts of her financial conservator. It goes to show that you can't trust a lone person to manage other people's money.

[neeneko]

By law Peggy March's parents were not allowed to manage her earnings. Nonetheless, she lost it all through the acts of her financial conservator. It goes to show that you can't trust a lone person to manage other people's money.

If nothing else, when there is enough money involved, a lone person is pretty easy to either trick or simply get their cut.

[LM K]

I watched the documentary "Framing Britney Spears" by NYT last night.

In a nutshell:

Her father should be tossed from the conservatorship. He's a dick. He gets 1.5% of all Britney's earnings. That's an enormous amount of money for a man that really struggled financially before Britney started making money. IMO, he should get no money. After all, this is about protecting his daughter from herself, right?

The conservatorship controls all of her recording and performance contracts. Not long ago she had a resident act in Vegas. One night she waited until the audience was ready, entered the stage as if to start the concert, and in full performance outfit, walked down the isle of the concert hall and out the door. Her dancers walked with her. She asserted control. She was done. Her contract was ended.

Lynne Spears has asked to join the conservatorship but only to help with medical issues. She hasn't been added.

One reason the conservatorship was deemed necessary was after a standoff during which she locked herself and her youngest toddler son in a bathroom and refused to come out for several hours.

At the time the conservatorship was made, Britney was not allowed to see her children. Iirc, the day after the conservatorship was set up, she was allowed to see her children.

Once a conservatorship is established it is nearly impossible to end. I don't think Britney will ever be able to end her conservatorship. The changes she has requested seem reasonable to me. She has asked that her father be removed and that a bank control her finances. She wants the conservatorship to end, but that's not going to happen.

According to one of her lawyers, the judge called Britney a "high functioning conservatee". Britney's lawyer was stunned. What exactly does the judge mean. Isn't that an indicator that she needs less help?

[LM K]

She did complain about her reactions to lithium and wants to stop taking it. (I think I read that in this tread, but it might have been another report.) Aren't there other medications to replace it, if need be?

Lithium is a hammer. It can cause physical side effects, like diarrhea and stuff, but mentally it is a brute. It's like a big virtual blanket that falls over your whole being, everything is muffled and thinking about something or talking to someone takes a few extra mental steps to stay with it. I had a hard time on it, but it definitely worked for the bipolar. At what cost though?

There are a number of drug cocktails that it can be replaced with (lithium is generally part of a cocktail itself for that matter.) That all takes time and cooperation with a good psychopharmacologist. And in addition to old standbys (like your lithiums, etc.) there are a number of new drugs to try out and see if they work for you.

Short answer: Yes, there are other medications to replace lithium, if need be.

In the world of mental illness, the two most difficult diseases to treat are bipolar disorder and schizophrenia.

Are there other meds? Yes but no. Every patient is different. There are two primary forms of bipolar disorder; bipolar 1 and bipolar 2. (There is also bipolar disorder not otherwise specified. That's beyond the scope of this conversation.)

Lithium can be a miracle drug for some. Not everyone gets side effects. If the patient does have side effects, they might be able to control the side effects. Every drug has its positive and negative effects.

How do we use meds for bipolar disorder? That depends on the diagnosis. The meds used for bipolar 1 are often different than those used for bipolar 2.

I'm now certain that Britney is bipolar 1. Thus, she has big manias with occasional depressive episodes. Controlling her mania is critical for her safety and well-being and the safety of others.

Lithium is the gold standard drug for bipolar 1. It's a brilliant med. Some do get the more difficult side effects. I couldn't tolerate lithium due to nausea.

For bipolar 2, we start with anti-epileptic meds or atypical antipsychotics. When anti-epileptic meds are used for bipolar disorder they're called mood stabilizers. Those with bipolar 2 experience episodes of severe depression with occasional hypomanias and manias. I'm bipolar 2. I've never had a pure manic episode. I have the severe mixed episodes which are considered the most dangerous bipolar episodes. Mixed episodes are when a bipolar patient is severely depressed and manic at the same time. I've had a few pure hypomanias, but thankfully they weren't pure manias.

Those with bipolar 1 can also have mixed episodes.

It's rare that bipolar patients succeed on the first med they try. Medication trials are part of the process. It's typical for a drug cocktail to be used.

When prescribing meds for bipolar disorder, we must ask:
*Is it bipolar 1 or bipolar 2?

*Which drug/s are most likely to work for the specific patient based on their symptom presentation. Yes, bipolar 1 and bipolar 2 have set diagnostic symptom criteria. But how bipolar 1 or bipolar 2 manifests can be slightly different in each individual patient.

*Which drug is safe for the patient's overall health? Are they on other drugs? Do they have other diagnoses? What is their family history? What are the psychological and physiological demands of the patient's daily life? How old is the patient? What sex is the patient?

*How medication compliant is this patient likely to be? For example, my primary bipolar med is lamotragine (lamictal). The med dose must be carefully changed. You can't increase it or decrease it safely by more than 25 mg 4-7 days. I had a student that would change her lamotragine dose by several 100 mg depending on how well she felt each day. I had a come to Jesus talk with her. Her actions made her extremely susceptible to developing Stevens-Johnson Syndrome, which is super duper serious and often fatal. She told me her doctor said she could change her dose however she wanted. I explained to her that that was 100% impossible and that she needed to take her med as prescribed and to see her doc immediately.**

*Can the patient's side effects be controlled with other meds if the patient's disease is under control with the medication? For example. If a med causes insomnia, but has stabilized the patient, it might be better to treat the insomnia than change the bipolar med/s?

Doctors and patients have to stick with what works with the fewest side effects. Newer drugs aren't necessarily better drugs or better for a specific patient.

If Britney has been on lithium for a long time, which I believe she has, then lithium is the best medication for her. Which is why I say no, there aren't other primary meds for her. Lithium is notorious for causing weight gain. Based on various pics of Britney, that might be the side effect she struggles with. But for most, weight gain can be controlled with diet and exercise.
(My mister has bipolar 1. He gained 30 pounds in one month when he tried lithium. He was immediately taken off lithium because he hadn't changed his eating habits at all. However, that type of weight gain is very rare.)

Britney wants to have a baby. While some meds are safer (doesn't mean completely safe) during pregnancy than others, those meds are likely contraindicated for her. To have a baby, Britney has to go off her meds. Based on her history, that is beyond unreasonable. She is 100% a risk to herself and others when she's not properly medicated.

Finally, because Britney gained supervised visitation with her then toddler sons immediately after the conservatorship was established, I suspect she agreed to use contraception as long as it was deemed in her best interest. A conservatorship cannot force the use of contraception. I believe Britney agreed to that condition if it was required for her to see her children.

**This student continued to be medication non-compliant and started stalking me. She left notes for me at my home and everything. I had to file a formal complaint with the college. She became extremely hostile while taking one of my exams in the campus testing lab. They had to call campus security because she was out of control. She then filed a complaint against a colleague, claiming my colleague was being antisemitic. I think she complained that my colleague wasn't being fair to her with grades and assignments. That wasn't true. I offered to write a letter for the review board on my colleagues behalf. A letter wasn't necessary.

Not long after all the campus chaos, she was arrested for something and spent some time in jail. I don't know why she was arrested. I hope she's improved. She's brilliant and can do so much for the world.)

[LM K]

Yikes! Britney's spiral was much worse than I realized. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/timeline-b ... -meltdown/

Drugs and alcohol can be problematic for those with bipolar disorder. People with bipolar disorder are typically ill for years before diagnosis and treatment. Many self-medicate with drugs and alcohol.

To be honest, there was a time during which the conservatorship was necessary. But once Britney's mental health stabilized and she demonstrated that she was compliant with her medical care, the medical part of the conservatorship should have ended. I'm not sure about her ability to manage her fortune. Giving a bank control of her money seems extremely reasonable, and is more equitable for Britney.

Here's the hard truth about bipolar disorder. Medication adjustments are typical. What works initially has to change. Not every bipolar patient responds to medication at all. They're medication compliant but nothing works. Or, only one drug works but they've maxed out the dose.

Britney may be 100% medication compliant but still isn't completely stable. She could be following her treatment protocol to the letter, but still not stable.

Damn.

[raison de arizona]

It would be one thing if there were good faith efforts to do the best thing for her happening, but she has been and continues to be exploited. If they need to keep the conservatorship, then they need to. But the current parties in control of it need to go. She's in the position of having plenty of money to hire an independent person to manage it, paid out of a trust or whatever. Her dad and the other exploiters need to be cut out though.

I'm bipolar 1 and schizophrenic. I've done some stupid shit. It never occurred to me that I could get my freedom taken away in such a manner though. Kind of scary. Terrifying, actually.

[chancery]

Well, don't you see, you'll have to manage without a conservatorship because you aren't a source of millions of dollars in income that can be exploited for fees.

Auda Abu Tayi's line from Lawrence of Arabia seems apt:

I am a river to my people!

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

Glimdropper-

Thank you for posting Emily Baker's YouTube chat on Britney Spears's conservatorship. It is well done!

Cordially,
Tired Retired Lawyer, but still a Law Nerd

[LM K]

It would be one thing if there were good faith efforts to do the best thing for her happening, but she has been and continues to be exploited. If they need to keep the conservatorship, then they need to. But the current parties in control of it need to go. She's in the position of having plenty of money to hire an independent person to manage it, paid out of a trust or whatever. Her dad and the other exploiters need to be cut out though.

I'm bipolar 1 and schizophrenic. I've done some stupid shit. It never occurred to me that I could get my freedom taken away in such a manner though. Kind of scary. Terrifying, actually.

My friend, I can't imagine living with both diseases. I'm so glad you're here and sharing.

[Patagoniagirl]

It would be one thing if there were good faith efforts to do the best thing for her happening, but she has been and continues to be exploited. If they need to keep the conservatorship, then they need to. But the current parties in control of it need to go. She's in the position of having plenty of money to hire an independent person to manage it, paid out of a trust or whatever. Her dad and the other exploiters need to be cut out though.

I'm bipolar 1 and schizophrenic. I've done some stupid shit. It never occurred to me that I could get my freedom taken away in such a manner though. Kind of scary. Terrifying, actually.

In guessing you didn't have enough money Cofe. No one was going to make a pile of money off you.

[RVInit]

It would be one thing if there were good faith efforts to do the best thing for her happening, but she has been and continues to be exploited. If they need to keep the conservatorship, then they need to. But the current parties in control of it need to go. She's in the position of having plenty of money to hire an independent person to manage it, paid out of a trust or whatever. Her dad and the other exploiters need to be cut out though.

I'm bipolar 1 and schizophrenic. I've done some stupid shit. It never occurred to me that I could get my freedom taken away in such a manner though. Kind of scary. Terrifying, actually.

My friend, I can't imagine living with both diseases. I'm so glad you're here and sharing.

[slq]

That said, no one should be forced to use contraception. Britney's conservatorship sounds unethical. It sounds like she's a slave performing for the financial desires of others.

Here's the thing. If Britney wasn't wealthy, she wouldn't be under the control of others to this extent. She'd only be "controlled" if she was a risk to herself or others, and thus hospitalized, or she was breaking the law and jailed. She absolutely would not be forced to use contraception.

Medication non-compliance can be a significant reason for hospitalization and/or incarceration. But there are many ways to monitor medication non-compliance without a conservatorship.

And Britney may be medication compliant.

If Britney continues to need conservationists, I think her father needs to be out of the situation and that all of her current conservatorship members be changed. And she should be allowed to retire from her career if that's what she wants.

This was the point I was trying to make, but you said it much better. To me, it sounds like she continues to perform to support all the people being paid by the conservatorship. She's the vehicle to allow these people to get huge salaries, and she's allegedly mentally ill enough to need a conservatorship. I'm not saying she doesn't need help. It seems like she does. But none of this would exist if she wasn't capable of earning huge amounts of money.

[raison de arizona]

Coverage from today.

Tell me Britney Spears is going free without telling me Britney Spears is going free.

► Show Spoiler

[raison de arizona]

[neonzx]

Woah, what...

She talks about not being able to go to the "mother fucking spa" ...

But has zero words for her two children.

[Patagoniagirl]

Woah, what...

She talks about not being able to go to the "mother fucking spa" ...

But has zero words for her two children.

She was wise to not bring up her children. And good on her for a giant "FUCK YOU" to anyone who feels like the have a right to judge her.

[neonzx]

Woah, what...

She talks about not being able to go to the "mother fucking spa" ...

But has zero words for her two children.

She was wise to not bring up her children. And good on her for a giant "FUCK YOU" to anyone who feels like the have a right to judge her.

We are going to disagree there. If you have kids, that's your only job. Not going to a spa.

[Patagoniagirl]

Woah, what...

She talks about not being able to go to the "mother fucking spa" ...

But has zero words for her two children.

She was wise to not bring up her children. And good on her for a giant "FUCK YOU" to anyone who feels like the have a right to judge her.

We are going to disagree there. If you have kids, that's your only job. Not going to a spa.

Yes, we do disagree. Just because she didnt bring up her children in a rant (and she shouldn't- that is for private, civil family law courts) doesn't mean a spa day trumps her love and concern for her kids. It means she is bitching about her treatment and lack of control and leaving her situation with her children out of the limelight. Rightly so.

Edit to add: she was ranting about the conservatorship which is not.the same as the family court decision over custody and visitation.

[Azastan]

We are going to disagree there. If you have kids, that's your only job. Not going to a spa.

Her parenting agreement only allows her 30% unsupervised custodial rights. it was scaled back from 50/50, shared with Kevin Federline. Her sons are 15 and 16 years old, so it's not as if they are pre-teens or even 'tweens.

[jemcanada2]

I’m not going to get into parenting issues. I read it as her ranting that she’s forced to perform in big Las Vegas shows but she’s not allowed to even use the spa at the hotels where she’s forced to perform.

[GlimDropper]

Glimdropper-

Thank you for posting Emily Baker's YouTube chat on Britney Spears's conservatorship. It is well done!

Cordially,
Tired Retired Lawyer, but still a Law Nerd

You are most very welcome. I've loved Emily since I found her last last year. I don't even care too much about much of what she covers but her personality and intellect won me over.

Here is Friday nights show queued up to her Britney coverage. Included is the discussion of the more than 500K$ the conservatorship has spent on PR since the documentary came out.

[LM K]

We are going to disagree there. If you have kids, that's your only job. Not going to a spa.

Her parenting agreement only allows her 30% unsupervised custodial rights. it was scaled back from 50/50, shared with Kevin Federline. Her sons are 15 and 16 years old, so it's not as if they are pre-teens or even 'tweens.

It's not unusual for parents who are public figures to add a rule about "don't talk about your children in public" as part of a parenting agreement. Her sons may have asked that she not refer to them in in any public way.

When Britney is performing, she's away from her children. If she wants to go to the spa, she should be allowed to go to the spa. And even if she had 100% custody of her children and was never out of town, she should be able to go to the spa.

It is, imo, misogynistic to say a mom has to make motherhood her only job. We never expect that from men.

[slq]

We are going to disagree there. If you have kids, that's your only job. Not going to a spa.

Her parenting agreement only allows her 30% unsupervised custodial rights. it was scaled back from 50/50, shared with Kevin Federline. Her sons are 15 and 16 years old, so it's not as if they are pre-teens or even 'tweens.

It's not unusual for parents who are public figures to add a rule about "don't talk about your children in public" as part of a parenting agreement. Her sons may have asked that she not refer to them in in any public way.

When Britney is performing, she's away from her children. If she wants to go to the spa, she should be allowed to go to the spa. And even if she had 100% custody of her children and was never out of town, she should be able to go to the spa.

It is, imo, misogynistic to say a mom has to make motherhood her only job. We never expect that from men.

[neonzx]

It is, imo, misogynistic to say a mom has to make motherhood her only job. We never expect that from men.

Oh, it's not about moms. I'm also stern with fathers who don't step-up. They can skip the after work drinks and go to the kid's event after school (so Neon doesn't have to play fill-in for them).

[slq]

It is, imo, misogynistic to say a mom has to make motherhood her only job. We never expect that from men.

Oh, it's not about moms. I'm also stern with fathers who don't step-up. They can skip the after work drinks and go to the kid's event after school (so Neon doesn't have to fill-in for them).

Wanting to go to a spa at a hotel when her kids are with their father is not "not stepping up."