Fogbow

Kendra wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:36 pm

Frater I*I wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:22 pm

Kendra wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:20 pm I got home just in time. Stopped at store, if I'd known this was coming, I'd have picked up champagne.

Still not too late to go get some....

I'd have to get dressed, still got cheap wine here

A nekkid toast with cheap wine out of a paper cup, or a chipped coffee cup sounds sufficiently appropriate to me.

https://x.com/Acyn/status/1796336098618327314

Acyn
@Acyn
Blanche: He went into court everyday and he sat there and he had questions and he helped us.. fighting every single day

keith wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 8:24 pm

Kendra wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:36 pm

Frater I*I wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:22 pm

Still not too late to go get some....

I'd have to get dressed, still got cheap wine here

A nekkid toast with cheap wine out of a paper cup, or a chipped coffee cup sounds sufficiently appropriate to me.

Got a real wine glass, so all is good.

The sentencing hearing is set for June 11, I believe. Will he actually be sentenced at that time, or is this just a hearing for the prosecution and defense attornies to make their arguments for how much or how little jail time the convicted felon must serve? I assume the latter.

When will he actually be sentenced? Before the election?

I realize that there is no way that he will begin serving any sentence before the election, or before the inauguration (in the unthinkable case that he wins the election).

It is a foregone conclusion that he will appeal. IANAL, but I think that the part of the verdict that is most vulnerable to being overturned is the fact that the acts were charged as felonies, rather the, as is more common, misdemeanors.

Actually, as much as I am thrilled to see this day, I think that it opens a huge can of worms. If he loses in November, aside from the civil violence that may occur, this case may fall back to being a rather simple appeal for white collar crimes, like any other citizen. I mean that in the legal sense. I realize that, especially if the conviction stands, we are witnessing history being made. This is the first time a former president has even been tried for felonies, let alone convicted.

However, if the unthinkable happens in November, we are then confronted with the scenario of a president elect, or even a sitting president, with an unresolved felony conviction hanging over his head. I'm sure that his AG will argue that a sitting president can't be jailed, even though the DOJ policy against prosecuting a sitting president is just a policy and, arguably applies only in federal cases.

If the Trump AG is unable to quash the New York conviction, and if New York insists on going ahead with the case and demands that he report to prison, what happens?

The thing that scares me the most is that we all know that this will end up before SCOTUS. Given the current makeup of the court, I am not even a little bit confident that they will not give him a pass.

Is Turley a legal expert of some sort? And how could this be successfully appealed?

I made us each a quite strong Manhattan, with a plate of pistachios and fennel taralli on the side.

You know I have seen the Republican party claim to be the party of law and order since Nixon in 1968. It was horseshit then and continues to be horseshit now.

DrIrvingFinegarten wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 9:03 pm
Is Turley a legal expert of some sort? And how could this be successfully appealed?

He's a law professor whose reputation has been irretrievably beclowned since he kissed Trump's ring.

As for an appeal, sure it could be appealed. There are scores, hundreds even, of rulings that went against Trump, many of which were of sufficient moment that, if the First Department concludes they were incorrect, might draw into question the fairness of the trial.

My impression is that Judge Mercheran's rulings were thoughtful and correct, and that he did a very good job of conducting a fundamentally fair trial under difficult circumstances. Now, IANACrL. And, more importantly, I'm only familiar with a fraction of the trial record, so YMMV. But I'm not particularly worried about the verdict being upset on appeal.

I guess Bragg brought the correct charges after all didn't he?

noblepa wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 8:57 pm IANAL, but I think that the part of the verdict that is most vulnerable to being overturned is the fact that the acts were charged as felonies, rather the, as is more common, misdemeanors.

Nah, Mony a little maks a mickle. It's not a problem for a small crime to be supercharged into a more serious crime because of other associated misconduct, and this particular statute has been applied before without trouble.

Reality Check wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 9:15 pm I guess Bragg brought the correct charges after all didn't he?

Yep.

p0rtia wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 9:25 pm

Reality Check wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 9:15 pm I guess Bragg brought the correct charges after all didn't he?

Yep.

Exactly. Guess he knew NY juries better than some doom-sayers.

noblepa wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 8:57 pm The sentencing hearing is set for June 11, I believe. Will he actually be sentenced at that time, or is this just a hearing for the prosecution and defense attornies to make their arguments for how much or how little jail time the convicted felon must serve? I assume the latter.

No, while counsel do often make their final arguments at the sentencing hearing (sometimes they rely on their previously submitted briefs), the hearing does conclude with the court handing down the sentence.

If the sentence includes a term of incarceration, it is typical for a defendant who is free on bail to have an additional period of freedom before he is required to report to prison. This depends on many circumstances, and affluent white collar criminals who expect a generous lengthy period to get their affairs in order are occasionally startled to learn that they have been remanded at the conclusion of their sentencing hearing.

It's not terribly likely that Trump will receive a sentence that includes incarceration, although he is doing his best to make it happen. But even if the sentence does include incarceration, he won't be frog marched at the conclusion of the sentencing hearing.

He’s yearning to call himself a ‘political prisoner'

chancery wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 9:13 pm

DrIrvingFinegarten wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 9:03 pm
Is Turley a legal expert of some sort? And how could this be successfully appealed?

He's a law professor whose reputation has been irretrievably beclowned since he kissed Trump's ring.

Further on fluff-for-brains Turley:

https://Twitter.com/planterspunch7/stat ... 3109083455

That was the Indiana case from a few months ago, the little girl who had to go to Ohio for an abortion after she was raped.

And if he is elected president, these state proceedings would be abated while he was president.

At least at federal sentencings (and I will assume NY state has similar rules), after the arguments of counsel, and immediately before sentence is pronounced, the defendant is afforded the right to make an allocution. In some instances, defendants are able to significantly affect their sentence, often by convincing the judge of their true remorse. Given that Trump will almost certainly appeal, it will be interesting to see whether and how Trump deals with the opportunity to speak directly to the judge who will pronounce his sentence.

Lol I went to bed early because I have to be up early for a tour to budapest and woke up to the verdict in this thread. So I guess it's time for a song.

jcolvin2 wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 9:56 pm At least at federal sentencings (and I will assume NY state has similar rules), after the arguments of counsel, and immediately before sentence is pronounced, the defendant is afforded the right to make an allocution. In some instances, defendants are able to significantly affect their sentence, often by convincing the judge of their true remorse. Given that Trump will almost certainly appeal, it will be interesting to see whether and how Trump deals with the opportunity to speak directly to the judge who will pronounce his sentence.

True. I've only seen a dozen or so sentencings, maybe a few more, and I can recall a couple at which the defendant's allocution made some difference.

And I can well believe that that it would make a difference in Trump's sentencing, if he were to chose to make an allocution.

He will not show remorse, true or otherwise. He is incapable of remorse. He will recycle his 5 word grievances of disgrace, rigged, disgrace, rigged. I am beginning to think a prison sentence is the only appropriate punishment.

cjroberts wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:58 pm Trump should be happy. 12 New Yorkers voted in the affirmative with his name on the ballot 34 times each today.

BUT... But... but... the election was rigged

jcolvin2 wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 9:56 pm At least at federal sentencings (and I will assume NY state has similar rules), after the arguments of counsel, and immediately before sentence is pronounced, the defendant is afforded the right to make an allocution. In some instances, defendants are able to significantly affect their sentence, often by convincing the judge of their true remorse. Given that Trump will almost certainly appeal, it will be interesting to see whether and how Trump deals with the opportunity to speak directly to the judge who will pronounce his sentence.

I expect his allocution would be more like an AlPacinocution. The rant in "And Justice for All".

Were there any reports from inside the courtroom as to reactions of people in the room? Jurors, trump, lawyer, etc? I haven't seen anything about that. I was helping with a sick grandbaby so not online...I assume he made some sort of statement outside the courtroom? I hope he looked shocked.

Rolodex wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 10:19 pm Were there any reports from inside the courtroom as to reactions of people in the room? Jurors, trump, lawyer, etc? I haven't seen anything about that. I was helping with a sick grandbaby so not online...I assume he made some sort of statement outside the courtroom? I hope he looked shocked.

Defense was somber. Prosecutors professional.

The body language guy thought tfg expected a guilty verdict