A General thread for 2024 Presidential Elections

[Kendra]

Thank you for the play by plays, Volkonski... mostly I'm reacting as color commentary.

I'm watching, but V's observations are better than anything my feeble brain could make.

[Volkonski]

Republicans in disarray on abortion

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/08 ... dates.html

All the Republican candidates profess to be strongly pro-life, but their disarray on the question of a federal abortion ban was painfully evident. Ron DeSantis refused to answer a question on his support or opposition to a federal ban. Nikki Haley played the pragmatic politician who wants a federal ban but knows it’s not happening. Doug Burgum forthrightly stood for this being a state issue forever. Mike Pence (who worked in a personal faith statement) and Tim Scott (who referred to the terrible baby-killing ways of liberal states) demanded a federal ban. The whole discussion was confusing and discouraging to people who care about this issue.

[Volkonski]

Steve Herman
@w7voa@journa.host
And the next segment will be about "the coming trials of Donald Trump," says co-moderator MacCallum as Fox goes into a commercial break.

Steve Herman
@w7voa@journa.host
"The conduct (of Trump) is beneath the office of president of the United States," says Christie. "Booing is allowed but it doesn't change the truth.:"

Steve Herman
@w7voa@journa.host
Hutchinson and Christie are the two who do not raise their hands when asked if they'll still support Trump if he's convicted.

[Volkonski]

Steve Herman
@w7voa@journa.host
"Absolutely he did the right thing," replies Sen. Scott when asked if Pence did the right thing on Jan. 6, 2021.

Steve Herman
@w7voa@journa.host
DeSantis trying to avoid answering the same question.

Steve Herman
@w7voa@journa.host
"I think Mike did his duty. I've got no beef with that thing," DeSantis finally exclaims under pressure.

[Volkonski]

Steve Herman
@w7voa@journa.host
Hutchinson, to boos, says Trump "morally disqualified" from being president again and brings up the 14th amendment. "I'm not going to support somebody who is convicted of a serious felony."

[Volkonski]

Steve Herman
@w7voa@journa.host
"I do think Vice President Pence did the right thing," responds Haley. But let the American people decide whether Trump should be president again. "Trump is the most disliked politician in America. We can't win a general election that way."

[Volkonski]

Steve Herman
@w7voa@journa.host
"We'll give fair consideration to any pardon request" from Trump if he becomes president, says Pence, noting there would have to be contrition.

[Volkonski]

Steve Herman
@w7voa@journa.host
"No one is above the law," says Pence of Trump. "I chose the Constitution and I always will."

[Volkonski]

All but 1 presidential candidate indicated support for Trump as the GOP nominee even if he's convicted

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... index.html

[Volkonski]

Seems inconsistent.

Steve Herman
@w7voa@journa.host
"I would not" support an increase of funding to #Ukraine, declares Ramaswamy. "The Russia-China alliance is the single greatest threat we face."

[bob]

Ramaswamy has this pipe dream he could convince Russia to break up with China if the U.S. cedes Ukraine.

It won't happen for a number of reasons, including Ramaswamy not being the nominee, let alone the president.

[Volkonski]

Steve Herman
@w7voa@journa.host
"You are choosing a murderer over a pro-American country," Haley tells Ramaswamy.

Steve Herman
@w7voa@journa.host
#Ukraine is "a pro-American country that was invaded by a thug," says Haley. "A win for Russia is a win for China. Ukraine is the first line of defense for us."

[Volkonski]

The candidates are all acting scared of Trump (and so is Fox News)

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/08 ... dates.html

Fox is treating the Trump line of questioning like they’re being forced to eat their broccoli. And trivializing it with the hand raise. When Chris Christie started tearing into Trump, in the way that he has done on and off for years (when he wasn’t busy kissing Trump’s ass in a failed attempt to earn a cabinet post), I thought it would be his star turn — instead he meekly half-raised his hand in a vow to support Trump if he is the nominee and then gave a forgettable spiel. The truth is all of these candidates are relived Trump isn’t here to upstage them all and I think they’re all scared to remind viewers that someone much more popular among the base is watching this at home like the rest of them.

[Volkonski]

Steve Herman
@w7voa@journa.host
"I will do it on day one," says DeSantis of sending US special forces across the border to #Mexico to target drug cartels.

[Volkonski]

Steve Herman
@w7voa@journa.host
"We will partner with the Mexican military," promises Pence if he becomes president.

[Volkonski]

Steve Herman
@w7voa@journa.host
US Department of Education getting attacked by the Republican candidates more than any government agency, except for perhaps DoJ.

Steve Herman
@w7voa@journa.host
Sen. Scott says "we have to break the backs of the teachers' unions."

[Volkonski]

Steve Herman
@w7voa@journa.host
"We don't need a president who is too old (Trump and Biden) and we do not need a president who is too young (Ramaswamy)," says Pence.

[Volkonski]

Steven Beschloss
@StevenBeschloss@mastodon.social
Everyone on that stage except for Chris Christie and Ada Hutchinson said they’d vote for trump if he’s the nominee, even if he’s found guilty of the various felony charges. When Christie criticized Trump’s attack on the constitution, the GOP debate crowd booed him. Is there really anything more to discuss?

[AndyinPA]

Christie, the former prosecutor, would still support tfg?

[Foggy]

Off Topic

Converting hexadecimal directly to binary (except the dashes, maybe that's what Alexa couldn't handle) 488d8021-27e3-41d3-a773-5345ff2d3fa7 = 0100 1000 1000 1101 1000 0000 0010 0001 - 0010 0111 1110 0011 - 0100 0001 1101 0011 - 1010 0111 0111 0011 - 0101 0011 0100 0101 1111 1111 0010 1101 0011 1111 1010 0111

Super nerd award.

[Foggy]

What I'm not seeing is any particular winner who captivated the audience and showed real ability to be our commander-in-chief and chief executive officer of the United States of America.

[Sam the Centipede]

Based on the reports and color above (thanks V, OL and others ), and the audience's reported reactions, I am reminded of an old atheist trope. It goes along the lines that there are thousands of named gods throughout history and mythology, and a christian/jew/muslim considers absolutely all of them false, except one. The atheist differs only in that the "except one" disappears.

In the same vein, it seems that each sector of Rep audiences considers all their candidates horrible except one. The difference for Dems is that the "except one" disappears.

[Luke]

That's a great point, Sam.

Having thought about it, I think the loser was DeSantis. He really wasn't a player... nobody took shots at him so he was mostly isolated. There was so much hype they'd go after him... but they really didn't. He needed a super strong performance, and instead he just seemed angry, kind of manic, and not really somebody you'd want to watch on TV or streaming every day.

Vivek stood out, but not for good reasons. He was arrogant, had strange takes on issues, and showed zero respect for the others (considering he's so young, a drop of respect would have made a difference).

Chris Christie is who he is, he wasn't afraid to go after T**** and his attacks got applause (and boos), but that's all he's good for.

The others really blended into the wallpaper. Pence a bit when talking about J6, but he was way too heavy on religion the who time. We get it, we got it 8 years ago. Asa and Doug weren't memorable at all. And gosh, I had to look it up to be reminded about Nicki Haley and Tim Scott. That's how memorable they were, although Nicki blasted the GOP a bunch of times which was nice now that I think about it.

Can't imagine anything changed. There weren't breakout moments. They were cowards for not taking on T**** (except Chris) and how do they expect to beat him if they don't contrast with him? So they mostly get an F for that. This debate will be forgotten... well, today, when T*** gets arrested and booked.

Fox News was a loser, too. They lost control of the debate, candidates ignored the rules, and the mob crowd with incredibly disruptive. Only once did Bret even say anything. It was a stupid idea to let the audience cheer and boo through the whole thing, made it much more circus like.

***

I promise I didn't see any of the after debate coverage, but now looking, MSNBC hosts concurred about DeSantis and they picked up the same things.





And check this out with Vivek... they were dial testing him and when he said climate change was a hoax he dropped like a rock (esp with women). Also just learned about Navigator Research @NavigatorSurvey Helping shape the debate for progressives on the issues that matter most for Americans. NavigatorResearch.org https://twitter.com/NavigatorSurvey










Vivek's dial collapsed when he called T*** "the greatest president of the 21st century". lol







The GOP is a total mess. What a shame. (Lamenting the lack of a strong two party system, but they did it to themselves and it'll take more collapse to bring them back.) They've lost 3 elections in a row + the 2 specials in Georgia, and lost the popular vote in 6 out of 7 presidentials IIRC. Democrats aren't good at taking yes for an answer, but since 2016 we've had a hell of a streak. Events like this make me even more confident we'll win next year.

[neonzx]

I went a lookin' late last night for the debate -- a clean full feed -- after it was over. Could not find on the youtube nor on FNC site. I found it on David Pakman's youtube (he mentioned he is probably going to get in trouble for lifting it).

They call them "debate". I did debate in HS and early college days. This is not debate... it is speaking to their audience, and the little zingers here and there.

I did get to see Chris Christie attack Vivek Ramaswamy when he compared him to Barack Obama. DOG WHISTLE. Wrong skin color. Don't get me wrong, I have no love for Ramaswamy's positions on anything, but that was a low-blow.

We are just doomed as a country, I guess.

[Foggy]

Oh, Orlylicious, you got me. I'm now going to change my statement and agree with you.

Narrator: I smell bullshit.

No, really. We're discussing the criteria for choosing a president, a chief executive officer who is also the commander-in-chief, what yeah?

So I am trying to be a grownup, and I said, "What I'm not seeing is any particular winner who captivated the audience and showed real ability to be our commander-in-chief and chief executive officer ..." because I want someone who is smart and has good judgment and little things like that. I want a president who is qualified.

But then Orlylicious reminded me that we find ourselves, by some quirk of fate, in 21st century America, and the real basis upon which we will choose our next president is "somebody you'd want to watch on TV or streaming every day." In a media streaming society, people are gonna vote for a media streaming president.

Every action of every day, 24/7/365 in a modern political campaign, is organized around the media impact. Nobody gives a left-handed dodo about competence or intelligence or good judgment. We can hire those people after the election.

Orlylicious is right, and I was wrong.