Fogbow

I've been listening to the BBC online this morning. Lots of beautiful eulogies and memorials from countless people. I'm never able to express my feelings about things like this so it's a comfort to hear (and read) other people doing it so well.

Foggy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:32 pm I'm looking forward to seeing what King Charles does, after all the funeral stuff. By then he'll have had a good chance to think about what it all means, and what he wants his legacy to be, now that he's king.

He gets a reset, imho. But we'll have to see. Ol' Wifehorn says "He's always been an odd duck."

I used to think the Brit royal family was one screwed up mess possibly the result of lack of genetic diversity but as I have gotten older and see how messed up some of our rich and famous American families are (e.g., see Trump and Kardashian) they really did OK. You could not ask for a better monarch than Elizabeth II was and Charles has had 40 years to get ready for his role as King. I think he will do a good job and be fondly remembered. I wonder if he ever woke up in a cold sweat and thought "My God! She just might outlive me!"? Well she didn't and this is his time.

Yes, Wifehorn is correct on the odd duck observation but maybe that can even be used to his advantage.

Kendra wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:06 pm Maybe dumb question, but is William now Prince of Wales?

And in case anyone is wondering, Charles announced that the titles of Prince of Wales, and also the Duke of Cornwall, is passed to William (who is now styled Prince William, Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge), and Catherine is now Princess of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall and Cambridge.

Please note that Catherine is NOT Princess Catherine, she is Catherine, Princess of Wales. I'm sure, however, that everyone will call her Princess Kate.

Azastan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:34 pm

Kendra wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:06 pm Maybe dumb question, but is William now Prince of Wales?

And in case anyone is wondering, Charles announced that the titles of Prince of Wales, and also the Duke of Cornwall, is passed to William (who is now styled Prince William, Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge), and Catherine is now Princess of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall and Cambridge.

Please note that Catherine is NOT Princess Catherine, she is Catherine, Princess of Wales. I'm sure, however, that everyone will call her Princess Kate.

Interesting... He must have made William Prince of Wales right away, there will have to be an Investiture, which is like a Coronation, Charles' was in 1969 even though he was created Prince of Wales in 1958. See, that's how I knew it wasn't automatic, Charles was Duke of Cornwall as soon as George VI passed away, as that duchy automatically belongs to the heir to the throne, but Elizabeth was never "Princess of Wales" the title having been vacant since 1936 when Edward VIII ascended. Anyhow, although Charles became the heir to the throne in 1952 he did not become Prince of Wales until 1958.

I think the "she is not Princess Katherine, she is Katherine, Princess of Wales" is just the kind of minutia lost on Americans and one of those totally nitpicky details or syntax that makes me love Britain. I think the rule is, a Prince or Princess is the son/daughter or grandson/granddaughter of the Sovereign. So Prince Harry is a Prince but his son has no birthright title, I think. I'm not sure if he is Lord Archie who will become Duke of Suffolk on his father's death, little Lillybet will always be just Lillybet as far as I know. Prince Edward's daughter is Lady Louise Windsor but again, I think only the eldest child has an honorific.

I am having so much fun with all this... it even has Dachshunds, albeit they are kind of understudies for the Corgis.

The Duchy of Cornwall was a thing in 1936 when Edward VIII abdicated. See, the point of it belonging to the heir is that the Sovereign has no actual income per se and they use their time as heir to collect a nest egg. The Duke of Windsor before he became King used the money to among other things buy his private house Fort Belvedere and he had quite a hoard of cash when he abdicated. George VI, on the other hand, had never been Duke of Cornwall, had never had a regular income and was pretty much skint broke (for a Prince anyhow, he was hardly skipping meals). Since he had just exiled his brother one thing he had to figure out was how to buy not only Ft Belvedere but also Sandringham Estate and Balmoral Castle which are the private property of the King or Queen, not sort of public buildings like Windsor or Buckingham Palace. The negotiations over buying these houses was a BIG DEAL, and took a few years.

I read a very good book over 10 years ago about Edward VIII and several chapters covered all the details of how he was kicked out of the country and was only allowed to return with special permission of the Sovereign. I had no idea how detailed all that was.

ETA: Wiki gives his full name and style, all in one breath

Upon his father's accession to the throne on 8 September 2022, William, as eldest son of the Sovereign and heir apparent, automatically received the additional titles of Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick, Baron of Renfrew, Lord of the Isles, and Prince and Great Steward of Scotland. On 9 September 2022, the King announced the appointment of William as Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester.

RTH10260 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:31 pm https ://youtu.be/ieACpHx4nXE

Best speech I’ve ever heard from Charles.

CNN is currently doing a panel discussion about if Biden should invite Trump to the Queen's funeral. Jake Tapper says it would be "clever" for Biden to do it.

Why?

I'm still waiting for the Mount Saint Helens sized explosion when someone doesn't get an invite.

Why not? It’s your normal bring a friend and a bottle do.

Why would Biden invite anyone? Isn't that up to the royal family?

Is it "Bring A semi-Fascist To Work Funeral" Day?

It would be interesting if King Charles invited Obama.

It's easy to forget, though, that the U.S. is not the center of the world. We are not a part of the British Commonwealth and there's no reason for our leaders to get preferential treatment over other nations who have closer ties to Great Britain right now.

Azastan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:34 pm Please note that Catherine is NOT Princess Catherine, she is Catherine, Princess of Wales.

Why is that? Was that also true for Diana? Or was she officially Princess Diana?

Kriselda Gray wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:47 pm

Azastan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:34 pm Please note that Catherine is NOT Princess Catherine, she is Catherine, Princess of Wales.

Why is that? Was that also true for Diana? Or was she officially Princess Diana?

They were commoners who married into the royal line.

New Turtle wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:52 pm

Kriselda Gray wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:47 pm

Azastan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:34 pm Please note that Catherine is NOT Princess Catherine, she is Catherine, Princess of Wales.

Why is that? Was that also true for Diana? Or was she officially Princess Diana?

They were commoners who married into the royal line.

Ah, ok. Cool - thanks!

Prince Phillip could be called Prince because he had royal ancestry, I think from Greece, plus he was a distant relative to the Windsors before they became the Windsors.

Kriselda Gray wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:47 pm

Azastan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:34 pm Please note that Catherine is NOT Princess Catherine, she is Catherine, Princess of Wales.

Why is that? Was that also true for Diana? Or was she officially Princess Diana?

Yes, it was true for Diana. Prince of Wales is an office reserved for the heir to the throne. As I understand it, the title of a wife of the heir is Her Royal Highness, _________, Princess of Wales.

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong.

New Turtle wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:52 pm

Kriselda Gray wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:47 pm

Azastan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:34 pm Please note that Catherine is NOT Princess Catherine, she is Catherine, Princess of Wales.

Why is that? Was that also true for Diana? Or was she officially Princess Diana?

They were commoners who married into the royal line.

Diana wasn’t a commoner. She was Lady Diana Spencer before she was married.

June bug wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:06 pm

New Turtle wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:52 pm

Kriselda Gray wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:47 pm

Why is that? Was that also true for Diana? Or was she officially Princess Diana?

They were commoners who married into the royal line.

Diana wasn’t a commoner. She was Lady Diana Spencer before she was married.

Ah, that's right. Nobility but not royalty.

Kriselda Gray wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:54 pm


Why is that? Was that also true for Diana? Or was she officially Princess Diana?

Both Catherine Middleton and Diana Spencer were not royalty before marrying into the royal family. That doesn't mean that they were hoi polloi, but they were not styled "princess" before the marriages.

Diana was styled Diana, Princess of Wales.

Kate is now styled Catherine, Princess of Wales.

For some reason that I have not seen clearly explained, no female heir to the throne has ever been created "Princess of Wales" in her own right. The most recent example was, of course, Elizabeth II, who was heir to the throne from the abdication of her uncle, Edward VIII (11 Dec 1936) until the death of her father, George VI (6 Feb 1952). She was never Princess of Wales.

The Wikipedia article on the Prince of Wales lists the 23 men who have held the title.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_of_Wales

I understand that the titles are not automatically assigned. The King / Queens dedicates title at their timing. I understand that Charles waited several years to become prince of Wales etc. Now King Charles granted the titles already to his heir (in speech above).

Kriselda Gray wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:47 pm

Azastan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:34 pm Please note that Catherine is NOT Princess Catherine, she is Catherine, Princess of Wales.

Why is that? Was that also true for Diana? Or was she officially Princess Diana?

She was HRH Diana, Princess of Wales until the divorce when she lost the HRH. And among that class of people the HRH is a big deal. The Duke of Windsor spent 35 years being very much like Trump complaining about Wallace Simpson not being allowed to be called HRH.

"Princess DI" was a misnomer but you have to be the guy who ruins movies to know or care.