Fogbow

northland10 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:30 pm I could go on for hours, but I will keep it short. Those who feel the need to "prove" God's existence are clearly missing the entire point. They just don't get it.

I don't think this is your point but …
… yes, it's up to God to prove his/her/its existence!

If folk's various gods can't be bothered to exist, I can't be bothered to believe in them. That seems fair to me.

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:47 pm Just remember, religious folks: Religion is like a penis - Great to have, awesome that you're proud of it; but don't wave it around in public, and don't try to shove it down anyone's throat without explicit permission!

I've heard that one a few times before. Its been bouncing around for a few years now, and no-one really knows who said it first.

Anyway, it could be posted to all sides. If you want to see rage, try debunking one of their pet crimes of Religion. I did it for a while when people would pull out a "fact" that such and such says this, especially from a page at Paethos which is as bad as FOX when it comes to spreading Misinformation, only there target is religious folk, and even when shown it in black and white Atheists are just as attacky as the worst religious fanatic.

Hell Bill Maher's movie "Religious" famously made things up and mocked people for not knowing "the truth" about their religions. Such as making up an Egyptian god called "Apup the Baptizer" and laughing at someone who was confused when he pulled out that "Fact"

Anyway, to lighten the mood, here's an article from cracked on "5 inspiring religions that worship Penises."

https://www.cracked.com/article_16103_5 ... nises.html

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:47 pm
Just remember, religious folks: Religion is like a penis - Great to have, awesome that you're proud of it; but don't wave it around in public, and don't try to shove it down anyone's throat without explicit permission!

I have used this almost exact same analogy with people here in central rural GA...and I didn't read it somewhere...

Maybe atheists are like the Cylons from Battlestar Galatica...but instead of hearing the same music, we hear the same counter argument...

northland10 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:30 pm I could go on for hours, but I will keep it short. Those who feel the need to "prove" God's existence are clearly missing the entire point. They just don't get it.

Y'know, I'ma agree with that 100%. I'll bag on Christians the day my own father stops being a devout Christian.

And yet ...

At Georgetown University, in order to graduate from the School of Foreign Service with a degree called Bachelor of Science in Foreign Service (BSFS), with a major in International Economics, I was required to fulfill many requirements, and two of them were 6 credits in Philosophy and 6 credits in Theology.

So I took The Problem of God. Twice, the first time I got a priest/prof who thought we were all in 2nd grade, so I dropped it. But the second time, I got an A, and the WHOLE COURSE was about whether the existence of God can be proven. Or not.

That's where I learned the word teleological.

Short version: It can't be proven. But somebody (the Jesuit community at Georgetown U.) feels the need to discuss the topic in great detail.

Foggy wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 7:35 am That's where I learned the word teleological.

And ontological too?

Foggy wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 7:35 am Short version: It can't be proven. But somebody (the Jesuit community at Georgetown U.) feels the need to discuss the topic in great detail.

This atheist feels that a deity that needs to be argued into existence isn't much of a deity and can definitely be ignored. Hey disputant, is that the best god you got?!

Jesuits baffle me. Allegedly super-sharp minds yet not bright enough to recognize that they're dealing with fiction, not fact.

Followers of Abrahamic religions rarely consider the possibility that their god was alive a millennium or two ago but quietly died (or got bored and left) and that's why we never see any sign of him or his deeds these days.

I feel bad. I was going to have fun responding, or maybe poking, or not, Sam's comment above but I lost track of time and focus. Sorry Sam.. too little time to play lately.

Jesuits baffle me. Allegedly super-sharp minds yet not bright enough to recognize that they're dealing with fiction, not fact.

In my somewhat limited experience with Jesuits I would bet there are more atheists among them than there are admitted atheists in the general population. YMMV

qbawl wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 9:46 pm

Jesuits baffle me. Allegedly super-sharp minds yet not bright enough to recognize that they're dealing with fiction, not fact.

In my somewhat limited experience with Jesuits I would bet there are more atheists among them than there are admitted atheists in the general population. YMMV

I believe this to be a true statement. Often belief is something that you put on when you are young and grow out of with learning and wisdom. This I have found to be true throughout the various protestant sects as well.

Sam the Centipede wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 5:14 pm Jesuits baffle me. Allegedly super-sharp minds yet not bright enough to recognize that they're dealing with fiction, not fact.

They are sharp enough to know that the people who claim Jesus was fiction have to lie to make up the evidence for it. They can spot that kind of self delusion and hypocrisy a mile away.

As I said in another thread, you don't have to believe that Jesus was the son of God to admit the guy exists. They see people claiming that the Non christian sources who mention Jesus must be fake, and roll their eyes

They see people claiming that Jesus was based on Horus and hos battle with Set, and know that Jesus vs satan didn't involve Anal Sex and satan eating his own semen on lettuce.

They see people claiming Isis, Horus's mother was a Virgin and was the inspiration for the Virgin birth, and know that Horus was conceived by Isis having Sex with Osiris's corpse, using a magical Golden strap on dildo.

They see people claiming that there was no such thing as celibate Rabbis in Jesus's time therefore he could not be unmarried, and then have read the Dead Sea Scrolls which were written by what were celibate Scholars in Jesus's time

They see people claiming that people thought the Earth was flat in the middle ages as a reason to be Atheists and to ridicule religious people, and they have read the actual people in the Middle ages who knew the Earth was a Sphere and had a good idea of the size of the Sphere.

They know that the Jesuits defended Galileo in the first trial of the Inquisition, and wound up dragging his ass in front of the Inquisition for the second trial. They also know that Galileo failed to prove his maths predicted the motions of the planets and were basically wrong.

They also know that a Catholic Bishop brought Copernicus's Book to the printers and that the Catholic Church was an enthusiastic supporter of Heliocentrism for 60 years. And that one of the biggest denounces of Heliocentrism was one Martin Luther. They partially banned the book in response to Catholics being burned for heresy in Protestant countries for believing in Heliocenteism

They also know that the "people never do evil with as much enthusiasm as from religious conviction" is an outright fabrication of what Pascal said. It was actually "People do not do evil so cheerfully as from a false sense of conscience." hell, in the Paragraph before that Pascal was praising Christianity as the only rational religion.

In short, they can see that people who try and go with the "Jesus is fiction" angle use fiction and outright lies to try and prove it, and in short peddle outright bollox to push their bollox. Confronted with that level of horseshit, you would shake their dust from your feet and stick with the Mass and believers too.

I mean I'm not as Smart as an average Jesuit and I was correcting quotations put to me earlier in this very thread. I read the report on the Canadian Native schools and saw that it was not saying what people were wanting it to say, and I got attacked here for it. What they do is tiny compared with that.

Suranis wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 10:14 pm As I said in another thread, you don't have to believe that Jesus was the son of God to admit the guy exists. They see people claiming that the Non christian sources who mention Jesus must be fake, and roll their eyes

This is absolutely true.

AND you also don't have to deny that the historic Jesus existed to understand that the Christian mythology that has grown up around Jesus has borrowed from many mythology archetypes that preceded Jesus.

As for whether Jesus was married or not, there is more circumstantial evidence (in the Bible itself) indicating he may well have been married than there is that he was a celibate Essene contemplative. Moreover, Josephus describes some Essene groups that did marry (after a 3 year 'engagement').

Also, though the the Essene source of the Qumran library is the most accepted theory, there are others.

keith wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 12:49 am

Suranis wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 10:14 pm As I said in another thread, you don't have to believe that Jesus was the son of God to admit the guy exists. They see people claiming that the Non christian sources who mention Jesus must be fake, and roll their eyes

This is absolutely true.

AND you also don't have to deny that the historic Jesus existed to understand that the Christian mythology that has grown up around Jesus has borrowed from many mythology archetypes that preceded Jesus.

No, but when you see people claim as sources for X and Y parts of the Jesus story, myths that are nothing like the story parts they are supposed to be the sources of, you are entitled to commence with the eye rolling.

Plus, we have eye witness accounts and all that stuff good stuff. Mark was written 20 years after the Crucifixion, and the others are based on earlier sources that were closer than their 30 years after the crucifixion. That's not really enough time for people to start mixing in old stories. It is enough time for them to add in old bigs of Jewish messiah myth, but those didn't generally end with the Messiah being executed and rising again.

The Movie Zeitgeist started people claiming this shit, but it was about as accurate on Myth and History as the movie Splash. It just prays on people's ignorance and desire to feel smart. Of course, when you point out how they are wrong, they start panicking internally as they feel they have been fooled, they are no longer smart, and omg maybe Jesus existed rather than being made up by a Roman evil gumbint Conspiracy and and that means aaaaaagh, and then they commence with the personal attacks.

And regardless of the historic reality or myth of Jesus, there remain some very smart Jesuits who are atheists. No one should read that statement as an attack on their own personal beliefs or lack of same.

The fall of the catholic church, while perhaps having a bigger impact than other religions ( sheer #'s) might be the canary in the coal mine for other denominations. Not for the individual believers so much as the institutions. The church I attended as a small child was always bursting the pews (Presby). It now has FOUR active members! Jesus wasn't a fan of organized religion.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social- ... Nj7xLRsrkQ

That "live with safety and dignity" crap drives me crazy. Safe from whom? The men making the laws.

AndyinPA wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 10:58 am That "live with safety and dignity" crap drives me crazy. Safe from whom? The men making the laws.

Exactly.

Patagoniagirl wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 10:16 am The fall of the catholic church, while perhaps having a bigger impact than other religions ( sheer #'s) might be the canary in the coal mine for other denominations. Not for the individual believers so much as the institutions. The church I attended as a small child was always bursting the pews (Presby). It now has FOUR active members! Jesus wasn't a fan of organized religion.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social- ... Nj7xLRsrkQ

The Irish Times was historically a Protestant Newspaper, once based out of Trinity college, a "Protestant" college and one that is still a Seminary for Anglican Ministers. It's been been talking about the beginning of the fall of the Catholic Church in Ireland for the past century.

Hell the Media in general in Ireland is extremely anti-Catholic, as I mentioned on the Oldbow several times. The fact that everyone who gets Jobs in the mass media seems to have gone to Trinity College is probably just a coincidence.

Would also (most likely) have to change their religion if they moved to Iran.

Even Iran has a constitution and laws separate from the Koran or Sharia Law. So does Saudi Arabia, which is arguably a worse theocracy than Iran is.

The "separate" part gives the illusion of independance when the game rules dictate that laws must be in sync with Islamic teaching.

And that ironically breaks one of the tenants of Shia Islam, which was pretty adamant that Clerics should have no part in writing laws. Until, after the Revolution, when The New Iranian Parliament and President started policies that Khomeini and the other clerics did not approve of. He stood it for about 6 months and then called down the smack to stop it.

Even Iran goes through less regressive phases where the Regime drifts away from the Tenants of Shia Islam before the Mullahs once again start competing about who is the most radical and shut it down.

!	Message from: Foggy
	Removed for personal attack

Do I really need to remind people that kind of personal attacks against another member of the forum is not going to be allowed?

I havent watched this yet, so let me know how it goes