Fogbow

raison de arizona wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:25 pm

The jury has ended its deliberations for the day and left the courthouse.

Deliberations are scheduled to resume tomorrow at 9 a.m. ET.

nbc live link as above

I'll bet they finish tomorrow. It's Friday and it's holiday season. Merry Christmas, Rudy!

I swear I thought today was Friday

nbc link

Giuliani left the courthouse shortly after it was announced that the jury deliberations would resume tomorrow morning.

Unlike previous days in the trial, Giuliani declined to speak to the press while leaving the building.

Perhaps it is sinking in that he is well and truly screwed.

I wonder what his lawyer had to do to convince him not to testify.

raison de arizona wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 10:47 am Ah, yesterday, troubles seemed so far away...

Ron Filipkowski @RonFilipkowski wrote: Rudy chickened out of testifying. Rudy claimed he was going to prove Ruby Freeman & Shaye Moss stole the GA election. He put on no defense. Here is Rudy when trial started:

“When I testify, you will get the whole story & it will be definitively clear that what I said was true.”

What he didn't say was that he'd be testifying on the Sixth Friday in December.

His lawyer did it. Bold strategy, let’s see how it works out for them.

Closing-argument time in the Freeman-Moss defamation suit against Rudy Giuliani.

Freeman and Moss's attorney: You know who understands that defamation warrants a large damages award? Giuliani. Earlier this year, he sued Joe Biden for millions for calling him a "Russian operative." (via Anna Bower)

https://bsky.app/profile/joshuajfriedma ... je4id33v27

Maybenaut wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:59 am I think that’s a shadow of his earlobe.

I don't think so. When he turns his head a bit, you can see some of whatever it is protruding a bit from his face, like a thick drop.

Kriselda Gray wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 2:46 am

Maybenaut wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:59 am I think that’s a shadow of his earlobe.

I don't think so. When he turns his head a bit, you can see some of whatever it is protruding a bit from his face, like a thick drop.

Maybe an earbud?

W. Kevin Vicklund wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 6:25 am

Kriselda Gray wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 2:46 am

Maybenaut wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:59 am I think that’s a shadow of his earlobe.

I don't think so. When he turns his head a bit, you can see some of whatever it is protruding a bit from his face, like a thick drop.

Maybe an earbud?

It looks too far down

Kriselda Gray wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 8:36 am

W. Kevin Vicklund wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 6:25 am

Kriselda Gray wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 2:46 am

I don't think so. When he turns his head a bit, you can see some of whatever it is protruding a bit from his face, like a thick drop.

Maybe an earbud?

It looks too far down

It looks like it goes into the ear canal, and loops around the inside of the lobe. My wife has a Bluetooth earbud that looks similar (though a bit more bulky), the bit that sticks down is the mic.

W. Kevin Vicklund wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 8:47 am

Kriselda Gray wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 8:36 am

W. Kevin Vicklund wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 6:25 am

Maybe an earbud?

It looks too far down

It looks like it goes into the ear canal, and loops around the inside of the lobe. My wife has a Bluetooth earbud that looks similar (though a bit more bulky), the bit that sticks down is the mic.

Could be, but it doesn't stick out equally all the way down. Its flat againt his face most of the way and then there's the big "drop"-like thing, plus it's not straight. I mean, sure, it may well be something else, but it just really looks like blood dripping when I watch the video in motion.

It's that last part of his brain rotting away and seeping out of his earholes.

Or it's hair dye that soaked through his cranium into his brain and is now draining out.

If there is no finding by lunchtime today, I willl eat TRL's hat!

p0rtia wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:22 am If there is no finding by lunchtime today, I willl eat TRL's hat!

I was once on a jury and our deliberations took maybe 30 minutes. Never was a case more cut and dried. But we decided we had to sit around twiddling our thumbs for at least an hour before sending our note to the judge. Too, also, most of the jurors wanted the free lunch.

NewMexGirl wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 11:00 am

p0rtia wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:22 am If there is no finding by lunchtime today, I willl eat TRL's hat!

I was once on a jury and our deliberations took maybe 30 minutes. Never was a case more cut and dried. But we decided we had to sit around twiddling our thumbs for at least an hour before sending our note to the judge. Too, also, most of the jurors wanted the free lunch.

Okay, hat will be eaten at 3 PM!

Calling All IAAls:

Is there a schedule of some kind that lays out the order of who gets paid as in a bankruptcy proceeding Is it the chore of plaintiffs to identify Giuliani’s assets and take whatever action is necessary to secure those assets

I’m worried that plaintiffs in this case will get stiffed. The judgment is one thing, getting the money owed them is going to be the tricky part.

Sincerely yours,

Ignorance Unbounded

NewMexGirl wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 12:29 pm Calling All IAAls:

Is there a schedule of some kind that lays out the order of who gets paid as in a bankruptcy proceeding Is it the chore of plaintiffs to identify Giuliani’s assets and take whatever action is necessary to secure those assets

I’m worried that plaintiffs in this case will get stiffed. The judgment is one thing, getting the money owed them is going to be the tricky part.

Sincerely yours,

Ignorance Unbounded

I agree that getting any money out of Roodles is going to be like pulling teeth, only a lot more painful.

He recently put his multi-million dollar NYC apartment up for sale. If a large judgement is awarded to the plaintiffs, they can attach that apartment and receive the proceeds from its sale, can't they?

noblepa wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 12:34 pm

I agree that getting any money out of Roodles is going to be like pulling teeth, only a lot more painful.

He recently put his multi-million dollar NYC apartment up for sale. If a large judgement is awarded to the plaintiffs, they can attach that apartment and receive the proceeds from its sale, can't they?

My uneducated guess is that all his lawyers will get paid first, and Rudes has huge unpaid legal bills, including over $1 million from just this case. So far.

NewMexGirl wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 12:29 pm Calling All IAAls:

Is there a schedule of some kind that lays out the order of who gets paid as in a bankruptcy proceeding Is it the chore of plaintiffs to identify Giuliani’s assets and take whatever action is necessary to secure those assets

I’m worried that plaintiffs in this case will get stiffed. The judgment is one thing, getting the money owed them is going to be the tricky part.

Sincerely yours,

Ignorance Unbounded

Sorry, IANAL, but it's my understanding that judgements/jury awards are NOT dischargable in bankruptcy. I think this came up after the Alex Jones case(s) when there was concern he'd off-shored a lot of money before he filed bankruptcy.

NewMexGirl wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 12:29 pm
Is there a schedule of some kind that lays out the order of who gets paid as in a bankruptcy proceeding Is it the chore of plaintiffs to identify Giuliani’s assets and take whatever action is necessary to secure those assets


I’m worried that plaintiffs in this case will get stiffed. The judgment is one thing, getting the money owed them is going to be the tricky part.

Yes, the Bankruptcy Code sets out an order of priorities, and it could well be tricky and time-consuming for plaintiffs to get their money. Fortunately, however, plaintiffs are represented pro bono by Willkie Farr & Gallagher, a BigLaw firm that should be up to the task.

Rolodex wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 1:08 pm
Sorry, IANAL, but it's my understanding that judgements/jury awards are NOT dischargable in bankruptcy. I think this came up after the Alex Jones case(s) when there was concern he'd off-shored a lot of money before he filed bankruptcy.

That's not so. Many kinds of judgments can be discharged in bankruptcy, and and debtors frequently commence bankruptcy proceedings for this purpose. However, Giuliani probably won't be able to discharge his likely liability from this action.

11 U.S.C. § 523, part of the Bankruptcy Code, provides that a number of categories of judgments are not dischargeable. Section 523(a)(6) provides for the non-dischargeability of judgments "for willful and malicious injury by the debtor to another entity or to the property of another entity." "Entity" in this context appears to include natural persons.

This is the provision that a bankruptcy judge relied on to rule that Alex Jones could not discharge his liability.

There's some fussy caselaw concerning what kind of conduct does and does not fit the definition of Section 523(a)(6), but the general rule appears to be that intentional torts are not dischargeable. I think that the record will suffice to show that Giuliani inflicted "willful and malicious injury" on the plaintiffs.

p0rtia wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:28 pm Ok, ok... I was wrong.

But... I said I'd eat MY hat!

Screenshot 2023-12-14 at 5.21.10 PM.png

I want to be a kind, giving person who assists those in need.

I'll help you eat your hat.

chancery wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 2:16 pm

NewMexGirl wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 12:29 pm
Is there a schedule of some kind that lays out the order of who gets paid as in a bankruptcy proceeding Is it the chore of plaintiffs to identify Giuliani’s assets and take whatever action is necessary to secure those assets


I’m worried that plaintiffs in this case will get stiffed. The judgment is one thing, getting the money owed them is going to be the tricky part.

Yes, the Bankruptcy Code sets out an order of priorities, and it could well be tricky and time-consuming for plaintiffs to get their money. Fortunately, however, plaintiffs are represented pro bono by Willkie Farr & Gallagher, a BigLaw firm that should be up to the task.

Many thanks for educating me.

I should have cautioned that just because a judgment against Giuliani isn't discharged doesn't mean that plaintiffs will collect 100 cents on the dollar, or anything close to it. Giuliani has lots of creditors, some of whom (like lawyers) may have liens.

I think that they would be doing pretty well to collect something in the mid-seven figures.

(I'm also not a big fan of most giant tort judgments, but that's a discussion for another day.)