trump (convicted felon, defamer, insurrectionist, contemnor, and rapist - $537M)

[RTH10260]

I'd prefer he were to adore his grassroots from two feet below ..

[bill_g]

Trump campaign chief predicts that by election day, membership in Blacks for Trump will be over 50% African-American.

[sugar magnolia]

God Bless Donald Trump for widening the definition of black people.

You spelled 'whitening' wrong.

[Slim Cognito]

Trump campaign chief predicts that by election day, membership in Blacks for Trump will be over 50% African-American.

Yeah, good luck with that.

Wait. Does that mean that the majority of Blacks for trump now are white?

[Shizzle Popped]

Trump campaign chief predicts that by election day, membership in Blacks for Trump will be over 50% African-American.

Yeah, good luck with that.

Wait. Does that mean that the majority of Blacks for trump now are white?

That’s how I read it.

[Suranis]

It could be true. If all the white people leave and there is one black guy left, then that means over 50% of the membership is black.

[RTH10260]

https://twitter.com/Chris_D_Steele/stat ... 5202724076

Christopher Steele@Chris_D_Steele
Earlier this year, when he lost his English High Court case against us, the judge ordered Donald Trump to pay Orbis an initial £300k in costs. Trump, who claims to respect the UK, has now been in breach of this order for two months and faces enforcement if he travels here again.
10:01 AM · Jun 7, 2024

► Show Spoiler

ps. the convicted fellon may not be able to travel anytime soon....

[Kendra]

Can he start going after any Trump property on that side of the pond?

[RTH10260]

Can he start going after any Trump property on that side of the pond?

No, djt filed a defamation suit personally, so he is personally liable. The golf courses belong to the T Enterprise group, not direct personally owned. He would have to have a bank account or stocks deposited in a British bank to get frozen. Had the UK remained in the EU there may have been other options to get him arrested if he ever were to travel to Europe again.

But this may be a warning on other UK attorneys to not take a case from djt, while the may have been paied (who knows) not having their client pay up on a court decision will leave them with egg on the face.

For the conspiracy minded - a future UK government would have to shun a potential future impotus until he resolves his personal finances.

[Kendra]

Thanks RTH.

[chancery]

No, djt filed a defamation suit personally, so he is personally liable. The golf courses belong to the T Enterprise group, not direct personally owned.

It's true that the owners of corporations (and other limited-liability entities) are not ordinarily liable for the debts of the corporation (or an LLC, etc.), and vice versa.

However, when a corporation has a single owner which dominates its decision making, uses the corporation for his personal benefit, and disregards corporate formalities, it can be possible for an owner to be liable for the debts of the entity, sometimes called "piercing the corporate veil." Typically there needs to be some kind of fraud or wrongdoing involved, and there can be other requirements as well, depending on the facts of the dispute.

In the civil case before Judge Engoron it appears that Trump was held liable for actions nominally taken by various Trump Organization entities; I don't think (but I haven't checked) that piercing the corporate veil for those purposes was seriously disputed.

Holding an entity liable for the actions of its owner, so that there is no legal distinction between them for any purpose, is a harder thing to do. It might be possible here -- Trump possibly doesn't keep any more of his wealth in his own name than he needs for immediate purposes -- but it would take some doing. I dunno.

He would have to have a bank account or stocks deposited in a British bank to get frozen.

Not at all. Foreign judgments can be and routinely are enforced in United States courts, although there are a couple of hoops to jump through. It's not as simple as enforcing in one of the 50 states a judgment rendered in a different state.

For example, the judgment creditor must show that the judgment was obtained from a fair and impartial judicial system and the underlying claim was not repugnant to New York public policy. The grounds for non-enforcement are set out in N.Y. CPLR § 5304, and they can sometimes provide fertile ground for defensive litigation. https://law.justia.com/codes/new-york/c ... e-53/5304/

Judgments from the UK typically pass this test and are usually enforced without much trouble in New York State, but there can be scope for the debtor to impose some cost and delay on the creditor. And occasionally there will be a quirk in UK substantive law or procedure that gives a New York judge pause, but it would be unusual for a New York court to deny enforcement to a UK judgment.

I note that the original post states that the UK judge "ordered Donald Trump to pay Orbis an initial £300k in costs." A foreign judgment must be final, conclusive and enforceable where it was issued to be recognized in New York. Orbis might have to wait for the conclusion of any appeal proceedings before proceeding against Trump's New York assets.

Also, the public policy of New York State does not provide that, in a defamation action, an unsuccessful plaintiff must pay the defendant's legal fees as a matter of course. UK law is notoriously different; all unsuccessful plaintiffs must pay the defendant's legal fees. Whether the UK law on legal fees is is not merely inconsistent with the public policy of New York State but is repugnant to it raises interesting questions that might have been already addressed but that I'm not going to research, except ... hmm, interesting.

In 2008, New York State enacted the Libel Terrorism Protection Act,* codified in CPLR 5304(b)(9), which provides that New York courts will not recognize a defamation judgment rendered by a foreign court

unless the court before which the matter is brought sitting in this state first determines that the defamation law applied in the foreign court's adjudication provided at least as much protection for freedom of speech and press in that case as would be provided by both the United States and New York constitutions.

Section 5304(b)(9) doesn't apply to this case. Trump isn't defending against enforcement of a judgment for libel against him rendered by the UK court.

He could still argue that the "loser pays fees" provision is repugnant to New York public policy, but the fact he voluntarily chose to bring his defamation claim in the UK court system, which he obviously chose because UK courts are friendly to defamation claims, and suffered the well-known consequences of losing such a claim puts him in a particularly weak position. Also, New York courts may already have rejected such claims; I haven't looked.
________
* The act was in response to perceived abuses, such as the facts underlying Ehrenfeld v. Mahfouz, 9 N.Y.3d 501 (2007). In Ehrenfeld the New York author of a book on terrorism had written that a Saudi businessman provided financial support to al Qaeda. The author had never lived in the UK and her book had not been published in the UK. The Saudi businessman nonetheless sued the author for libel in London and obtained a judgment. The New York Court of Appeals resolved a different issue against the author, and I haven't seen any indication that this particular judgment was enforced in New York State, but it excited a good deal of alarm.

[RTH10260]

moved wrong thread as per MN-skeptic below

[MN-Skeptic]

Alina Habba ...

Trump seeks recusal of judge who fined him $464M in civil fraud trial
Trump alleges Judge Arthur Engoron violated New York's Code of Judicial Conduct.

ByAaron Katersky and Peter Charalambous
June 21, 2024, 3:22 AM

Former President Donald Trump filed a motion Thursday to try to get the judge who oversaw his civil fraud trial in New York kicked off the case.

The motion alleges that Judge Arthur Engoron violated the rules governing how judges are supposed to behave.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-seeks-r ... =111289231

For a little more background on this see posts in the Bragg Hush Money thread - https://thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... ey#p262293

[Sam the Centipede]

It's fun when chancery is in professorial mode!

I like your point about costs/fees. As you say England is loser-pays-both which might be considered "repugnant" to New York's each-pays-own principle. But I giggled at the argument that Trump chose to launch the action in England knowing and accepting its rules, so it's too late to complain about that!

Irony is always so sweet.

[Sam the Centipede]

On Trump his felonious nature: I doubt (without a shred of knowledge) that the UK would prevent a US president from visiting, regardless of his criminal record. They've admitted plenty of shitbag leaders over the years.

Actually I doubt that they'd bar a former president either. Certainly the outgoing Conservative government wouldn't, too many Trump fans in their party.

Nor even bar someone who claimed Rich White Man's Privilege. Rules – like taxes – are for little people!

But what happens if a UK court subpoenas Trump in a case? Would the Brits relax the "No Felons Allowed" rule in order for him to tetchy-lie, sorry, testify? It can't help one's side if the attorney says "sorry your horsehairy honorfulness, our guy can't appear because he's a convicted criminal, 34 times so far".

[Dave from down under]

Have in tried in the Haig for crimes against humanity…

[Dr. Ken]

He must realize his base is dying

[Foggy]

Wait, he said something that makes sense?

[Dr. Ken]

I'm going to watch as his base bends over backwards to support this despite it contradicting their beliefs

[keith]

JC students get auto green cards?

Immigrant ladies with JC massage course certificates are gonna flood the country!

There's gonna be Taco trucks on every corner run by folks with 2 year catering courses!

OMIGAWD!

[Volkonski]

But I thought all those college graduates were flaming liberals.

[Rolodex]

People with green cards can't vote, so he won't gain anyone there.

[zekeb]

JC students get auto green cards?

Immigrant ladies with JC massage course certificates are gonna flood the country!

There's gonna be Taco trucks on every corner run by folks with 2 year catering courses!

OMIGAWD!

I miss the overpriced roach coaches I dined at when I worked in Salem.

[p0rtia]

Whoa! Whiplash!

whiplash.jpg (142.14 KiB) Viewed 249 times

[raison de arizona]

Only the best people.