Fogbow

There are no more hashtags. What does that mean?

New Turtle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:18 pm

Phoenix520 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:30 pm Do tech bros hate Apple because it took them so long to release source code to developers while MS did it right away?

This was maybe 10 years ago, but I was on a project in school where I built an android app and painlessly got it onto the app market, what is now Google Play. Eventually they wanted an iPhone version. To make that happen, first we found an iMac and commandeered it for our project. Next we had to buy a subscription for the apple developer account. To actually build the app, we had to install their proprietary develoer tools that handle the security certificates, etc., which also required an OS upgrade. So basically (at least in those days) if you wanted to develop iOS apps, Apple wanted you to use their hardware and software from top to bottom. They had these stats that showed 90% of their users and developers were using the latest versions of whatever, but that was because they basically force people to upgrade to their latest and greatest.

For a while I had considered building a "hackintosh" which is a Mac running inside a PC-based system, mainly to get around paying for the developer account because it was a hassle to do it through university channels. In the end, we just got the developer account because it was easier.

Now-a-days, Delphi builds Android, Windows, and Apple apps. Of course, Delphi, especially the RAD Studio version is NOT cheap.

neonzx wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:24 am

neeneko wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:22 am

Phoenix520 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:30 pm Do tech bros hate Apple because it took them so long to release source code to developers while MS did it right away?

Ask any particular techbro and they will give any number of answers, but at its core it is a cultural thing. Apple centred a group of consumers that was not them. They see themselves as the movers and shakers of technology, all companies must think of their needs first. Apple instead focused on 'creative' types.. artists, writers, publishers, the types of people that techbros see as failures who do not do 'real' work. Apple focused on them, and built really cool stuff for them and their needs. I remember them being pissed about it all the way back in the 80s... how dare this 'cool' Macintosh not be made for them!

You started off well -- but then went off into defending what we tech bros consider the Apple cult... And it did become a cult worship following -- all the same hallmarks.

I know this is an old discussion but I want to weigh in here.

Here is the crux of the culture war between Apple and Microsoft: Apple focused on artists as Neenko said; IBM focused on its business customers. Microsoft provided software to BOTH. The market for business software - spreadsheets, databases, word processors, banking terminals, airline kiosks, etc - was huge in comparison to the market for artists tools.

That was it in a nutshell 100%.

Compared to the Apple platform, the IBM platform was relatively open and easy to develop for. It took no time at all for 3rd party developers to produce artists tools equivalent to or better than Apple's tools. Game over. But the tribes had all picked their sides and there was nothing left but a religious war. I remember being really annoyed with Mac bigots claiming that their Macs never had to be rebooted - what a load of hogwash. But my Windows NT server did not need to be rebooted - except for a power failure - for 3 and a half years.

I had a discussion with a film editor friend as recently as 5 years ago, who swore up and down that a Windows machine could not do what his Apple machine could do. I showed him a 'free' open-source editing suite that did everything his professional one did - even talking to 'specialty equipment'. He was gobsmacked. A year later he was berating me because he couldn't get his father's Android phone to shutdown unused apps. I carefully explained that this function is not something that Apple invented in its lonesome, all operating systems have to do pretty much the same thing and just because he is not familiar with the 'Android way' doesn't mean that it doesn't do it.

I happen to REALLY like the KEDIT text editor which is an advanced clone of the IBM mainfram XEdit text editor. That doesn't mean I can't use other editors.

keith wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:49 am I know this is an old discussion but I want to weigh in here.

Here is the crux of the culture war between Apple and Microsoft: Apple focused on artists as Neenko said; IBM focused on its business customers. Microsoft provided software to BOTH. The market for business software - spreadsheets, databases, word processors, banking terminals, airline kiosks, etc - was huge in comparison to the market for artists tools.

That was it in a nutshell 100%.

You are 110% correct. That is what happened. And I give Apple props for catering to the artists.

Today, now, I have arguments about which fake AI is better-- Siri or Alexa.(I still think Alexa sounds sexier, but I am a boy)

Apple never catered to artists. That's a myth.

busterbunker wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 4:25 am Apple never catered to artists. That's a myth.

Oh we are going to have words.

It may not have been a business plan, but most definitely Apple software focused on the artist community. From music apps to desktop publishing. They owned that market then.

neonzx wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 4:31 am It may not have been a business plan, but most definitely Apple software focused on the artist community. From music apps to desktop publishing. They owned that market then.

A big part of it too is that 'community' aspect. In many ways, deciding on things for projects, things like hardware, OS, and software are almost secondary to 'community'. Often the best option is to go with what other people doing similar work use since that means a deeper well of talent, support, and tools.

Which actually kinda ties back to the original topic of twitter, musk, and his not understanding the market. Twitter, mechanically, is nothing special. Outside issues of scaling, it is pretty replaceable. What makes it valuable is its community and ecosystem, meaning its big selling point is not something twitter controls directly.

neeneko wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:19 am

neonzx wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 4:31 am It may not have been a business plan, but most definitely Apple software focused on the artist community. From music apps to desktop publishing. They owned that market then.

A big part of it too is that 'community' aspect. In many ways, deciding on things for projects, things like hardware, OS, and software are almost secondary to 'community'. Often the best option is to go with what other people doing similar work use since that means a deeper well of talent, support, and tools.

Which actually kinda ties back to the original topic of twitter, musk, and his not understanding the market. Twitter, mechanically, is nothing special. Outside issues of scaling, it is pretty replaceable. What makes it valuable is its community and ecosystem, meaning its big selling point is not something twitter controls directly.

Here's what I use Twitter most for after following journalists: support. As in, if I call, contact via site, etc., a utility (say, internet or phone), I may or may not get service. If I DM them via Twitter, I get a very fast response. When I still had a land line that was acting up, the phone company was nonresponsive, then didn't show up for appts., etc. Contacted via Twitter-fixed within a day. If Musk insists on making Twitter Gab, that's going to be lost at some point. along with a lot of advertising revenue. Brilliant way to get Twitter out of the red.

I’m getting really sick of the anti-Apple horseshit. My wife wrote her PhD dissertation on a Mac SE; we’ve owned them ever since, and no, none have ever crashed. I run my entire business on an iMac. The Apple devices work seamlessly together.

We’re not a fucking cult. It’s not a fucking “religious war.” The machines have served us well. You can stick all that where the sun don’t shine.

roadscholar wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:26 am I’m getting really sick of the anti-Apple horseshit. My wife wrote her PhD dissertation on a Mac SE; we’ve owned them ever since, and no, none have ever crashed. I run my entire business on an iMac. The Apple devices work seamlessly together.

We’re not a fucking cult. It’s not a fucking “religious war.” The machines have served us well. You can stick all that where the sun don’t shine.

Yep. Not a cult at all.

roadscholar wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:26 am I’m getting really sick of the anti-Apple horseshit. My wife wrote her PhD dissertation on a Mac SE; we’ve owned them ever since, and no, none have ever crashed. I run my entire business on an iMac. The Apple devices work seamlessly together.

We’re not a fucking cult. It’s not a fucking “religious war.” The machines have served us well. You can stick all that where the sun don’t shine.

neonzx wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 4:31 am

busterbunker wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 4:25 am Apple never catered to artists. That's a myth.

Oh we are going to have words.

It may not have been a business plan, but most definitely Apple software focused on the artist community. From music apps to desktop publishing. They owned that market then.

I'm not sure that Apple deliberately set out to cater to the artistic market, but their products certainly appealed to that niche more than the IBM products did. Part of it may have been the culture. Apple employees wore khakis and polo shirts, or even blue jeans. They had employee lounges and worked flexible hours. IBM employees wore white dress shirts with skinny neckties (did anyone at apple even wear a tie?) and worked 9:00-5:00.

One of the reasons that IBM dominated the mainframe market was that their marketing/sales people bypassed the IT manager and talked directly to the CEO of the customer. Then, word came down from on high that "Thou shalt buy IBM". At first, IBM tried the same tactic with PC's, and it worked to get PC's into businesses. Also, most businesses had experience working with IBM, so it was safer in their minds, to go with a known quantity, IBM, than the upstart Apple. There used to be a proverb in the mainframe IT community that "no one was ever fired for buying IBM". That sentiment carried over into the PC market, at least until it spread to home users.

AndyinPA wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:47 am

Tried to get it back on track at https://thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 47#p157209 but as usual wasn’t interesting enough.

AndyinPA wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:47 am

!	Message from: realist
	The topic is "Twitter." Perhaps we could get back to that. Thanks. Carry on.

Phoenix520 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:15 am There are no more hashtags. What does that mean?

Wait, #how can #they get rid of #hashtags when we all still #have the #octothorpe character on #our #keyboards?



I #mean, we don't #even have #hashtags on Fogbow, but #I could #never get rid of #them.

Lead story all morning on Fox. Does anyone here have a short Dummy version of what this latest kerfuffle is about?

Kendra wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:17 pmLead story all morning on Fox. Does anyone here have a short Dummy version of what this latest kerfuffle is about?

I think it is that the outrage du jour is the rehashing of the idea that Twitter, Facebook and other "Liberal" social media sites blocked right-wing lies about the election, Joe/Hunter Biden, et al.

This is all fueled by Elon Musk's "bombshell" internal documents that, so far, have been a bunch of nothingburgers. His "proof" is about as convincing as Pillowforbrains' "Absolute Proof".

noblepa wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:33 pm This is all fueled by Elon Musk's "bombshell" internal documents that, so far, have been a bunch of nothingburgers. His "proof" is about as convincing as Pillowforbrains' "Absolute Proof".

Yeah, but at least Pillowforbrains offered a promo code for UP TO 66% OFF!

Oh, on the thread jack -- I think I mentioned days ago that Twitter itself was hijacked, so all is fair.

Kendra wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:17 pmDoes anyone here have a short Dummy version of what this latest kerfuffle is about?

James Baker, yes, the Baker who was the FBI's general counsel, was Twitter's deputy general counsel. Baker reviewed some documents before releasing them to Taibbi, the rockstar journalist turned water carrier.

Apparently Musk saw this as running interference, and fired Baker.

The right has a hateon for Baker due to Russia Russia Russia, etc.

I’ve been meaning to mention that it was very shrewd of Musk to choose a journalist without any Russian ties to head off any criticism regarding his reporting on what has been termed Russian disinformation.

Or something.

Thanks guys, that helps.

neonzx wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:37 pm

noblepa wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:33 pm This is all fueled by Elon Musk's "bombshell" internal documents that, so far, have been a bunch of nothingburgers. His "proof" is about as convincing as Pillowforbrains' "Absolute Proof".

Yeah, but at least Pillowforbrains offered a promo code for UP TO 66% OFF!

That's it! Elon should immediately announce that with coupon code entry HuntersWang you can get a blue check mark for 66% off!

YOU'RE A GENIUS!

Foggy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:14 pm

Edit: oc·to·thorp
/ˈäktəˌTHôrp/
noun
noun: octothorpe
another term for the pound sign (#).

Octothorp = pound sign only in America.