Page 45 of 74
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 3:04 pm
by W. Kevin Vicklund
Maybe KKKlayman will get a new client soon...
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 3:33 pm
by raison de arizona
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 4:15 pm
by Volkonski
Venue is a commercial building in a business park just west of the MacArthur Airport. Not a place normally used for public gatherings.
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 4:16 pm
by raison de arizona
IIRC it is the Loud Majority HQ.
"Come in the back door!" lol!
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 4:38 pm
by Volkonski
https://www.theamericafirstwarehouse.co ... GPSt0KU1BA
The venue only has part of the building totaling 7000 sq ft. Smaller than a typical North Fork winery.
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 4:59 pm
by noblepa
I realize that the recommendation of the DC Bar committee is not the final decision. What court will make that decision?
How often is the recommendation of the Bar Association overridden? How likely is it to be overridden this time?
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 5:19 pm
by realist
noblepa wrote: âFri Jul 07, 2023 4:59 pm
I realize that the recommendation of the DC Bar committee is not the final decision. What court will make that decision?
How often is the recommendation of the Bar Association overridden? How likely is it to be overridden this time?
The hearing committeeâs findings and disbarment recommendation are the latest setback for Giuliani, but the panel doesnât have the final say. Giuliani can challenge the report before the DC Barâs Board on Professional Responsibility, a separate body of lawyers who will decide whether to adopt the committeeâs report and recommendations.
If Giuliani loses again before the board, he could take the fight to the District of Columbia Court of Appeals, the cityâs equivalent of a state supreme court. His law license in New York has been suspended since 2021.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... paign=copy
Don't know in DC bar how often the committee's recommendations are followed, denied or revised.
Where I live the Supreme Court pretty rubber stamps the recommendations of the hearing committee.
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 8:42 pm
by bob
realist wrote: âFri Jul 07, 2023 5:19 pmDon't know in DC bar how often the committee's recommendations are followed, denied or revised.
IIRC, the D.C. Ct. App. gave Klayman some minor breaks, but upheld the basic premise, i.e., Klayman needed to be disciplined.
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 11:27 pm
by Maybenaut
Volkonski wrote: âFri Jul 07, 2023 4:15 pm
Venue is a commercial building in a business park just west of the MacArthur Airport. Not a place normally used for public gatherings.
Four Seasons Landscaping not available?
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 11:47 pm
by RTH10260
You can't expose Dog fearing Republicans to the distraction in the near neighbourhood
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 3:05 am
by Gregg
How does it compare to a landscaper's parking lot?
![rotflmao :rotflmao:](./images/smilies/rotflmao.gif)
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 3:10 am
by Volkonski
Gregg wrote: âSat Jul 08, 2023 3:05 am
How does it compare to a landscaper's parking lot?
It is probably smaller.
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2023 7:01 pm
by raison de arizona
Some more about Bernie Kerik at link.
Kyle Cheney @kyledcheney wrote:
JUST IN: Judge Howell threatens Rudy Giuliani with contempt of court and other âsevereâ sanctions for failing to provide adequate discovery to Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss in their defamation suitâ despite repeated court orders.
Sheâs also ordering Rudy to pay about $90,000 in their attorneyâs fees for recent motion.
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2023 7:27 pm
by Kendra
Good.
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2023 8:11 pm
by raison de arizona
Adam Klasfeld @KlasfeldReports wrote:
One of those possible "severe" sanctions is a default judgment.
That's how Alex Jones initially lost the lawsuits filed against him by Sandy Hook families â also involving conspiracy theories and discovery violations.
It's why Jones's trials were only about damages.
The Messenger @TheMessenger wrote:
NEW: Federal judge threatens Rudy Giuliani with contempt of court and other âsevere sanctionsâ in Georgia election workers defamation suit
https://trib.al/7sKiPwr
https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/sta ... 82721?s=20
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:56 am
by Dr. Ken
Rudy admits in court that he lied about election workers in Georgia
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:32 am
by chancery
Dr. Ken wrote: âWed Jul 26, 2023 9:56 am
Rudy admits in court that he lied about election workers in Georgia
Hmm. Not exactly, but maybe it comes to the same thing.
"without admitting to the truth of the allegations"
"solely for purposes of this litigation"
"does not contest the following allegations"
Wondering whether this will work to prevent Giuliani from being precluded from denying the allegations in other litigation if, as seems likely, there is a judgment against him in this litigation.
I doubt it. In general, I don't think that a party has the power use a stipulated reservation of rights to limit the application of issue preclusion as to other parties.
However, if the court obliges Giuliani by expressly declining to make a finding as to the matters conceded, perhaps a subsequent court would conclude that the issues were not "necessarily determined" in the first judgment. But we're way past the motion to dismiss stage, and there's already abundant evidence in the record that Giuliani's statements were false. And the court might not be so obliging. Furthermore, for purposes of issue preclusion, I don't think it matters that you choose not to contest a material issue, so long as you have "a full and fair opportunity to do so."
And it's particularly not likely to work if the subsequent court proceeding is an attorney disciplinary matter.
So I doubt that this trick will work, although I suppose that there's no reason for his lawyers not to make the attempt.
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:38 am
by somerset
Dr. Ken wrote: âWed Jul 26, 2023 9:56 am
Rudy admits in court that he lied about election workers in Georgia
A question for the IAALs:
There's a LOT of "weasel words" in Rudy's filing, trying to narrow the scope of liability as much as possible. In real-world litigation, will they make any difference? Can this admission still be used beyond this litigation, in spite of Roodle's attempt to prevent it?
Edit: I see that chancery was addressing this as I was writing the question
Thanks!!
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:45 am
by p0rtia
Too also, they do not address the accusation that they made no attempt to retrieve the information from other sources (I think the original request for sanctions mentioned the provider, AT&T or whoever).
Not to mention that this document from first to last comes in at level 9.2 on the resentful, snapping, screaming whiner scale.
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:23 pm
by chancery
A tweet by Andrew Weissmann reminded me the immediate context of this "nolo contendere"* stipulation, namely that the court is teeing up a big fat sanction (i.e., punishment) against Giuliani for massive & prolonged delinquency in his discovery obligations.
His argument will be that the discovery which he didn't provide is no longer relevant, on account of his stipulation, so he shouldn't be punished for violating his obligations. Besides (he will argue), he has already in effect punished himself, because the stipulation is the equivalent of one of the remedies provided for in FRCP 37(b)(2)(A)(i) ("directing that the matters embraced in the order or other designated facts be taken as established for purposes of the action, as the prevailing party claims").
Edit: Actually, he's already made the argument (see
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 0.84.0.pdf):
Furthermore, Giuliani stipulates to all pertinent facts Plaintiffs would need from him to establish liability, making discovery sanctions and further discovery from him unnecessary.
Meh. He'll still be liable for attorneys fees. Plus, there's the question of whether the evidence that he withheld, failed to preserve, or deliberately destroyed, might show willful bad conduct sufficient to overcome the first amendment defenses his stipulation purports to preserve. Also, too, punitive damages.
So, while it's probably a reasonable tactical move by Giuliani's attorneys, it's not going to help him that much.
________
*
Nolo contendere is a term from criminal law. So far as I know (IANACrL), it is not frequently used in modern practice. See FRCrP 11 ("Before accepting a plea of nolo contendere, the court must consider the partiesâ views and the public interest in the effective administration of justice.") While I am a fan of discriminating use of archaic terms, this one is meaningless in civil practice, so stupidly cutesy rather than witty, IMO.
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 5:33 pm
by raison de arizona
Rudy W. Giuliani @RudyGiuliani wrote:
![đ¨](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f6a8.svg)
CORRECTING THE RECORD
The Fake News says I admitted to lying in an overnight court filing. I didn't.
We are simply moving to a point in the case where we can file a motion to dismiss.
If you see a headline claiming I made an admission, just know it is #FakeNews.
https://twitter.com/RudyGiuliani/status ... 87077?s=20
Rudy W. Giuliani @RudyGiuliani wrote:
Frank. You should know better.
This wasn't an admission. We didn't contest this part of the case in order to get to the portion of the case that will permit a motion to dismiss.
You didn't even have the decency to call me.
Frank Luntz @FrankLuntz wrote:
âThe admission by Mr. Giuliani came in court papers filed on Tuesday night as part of a defamation lawsuit that the two election workers had brought against him in Federal District Court in Washington in December 2021.â
https://nytimes.com/2023/07/26/us/polit ... rkers.html
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 5:46 pm
by raison de arizona
Giuliani is offering a subscription on Twitter X account for the low low price of only $10/mo. In return, you will get, "...access to historical content about my life, exclusive reaction to news, original videos & behind-the-scenes footage."
I'll pass.
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:54 pm
by RTH10260
chancery wrote: âWed Jul 26, 2023 12:23 pm
A tweet by Andrew Weissmann reminded me the immediate context of this "nolo contendere"* stipulation, namely that the court is teeing up a big fat sanction (i.e., punishment) against Giuliani for massive & prolonged delinquency in his discovery obligations.
His argument will be that
the discovery which he didn't provide is no longer relevant, on account of his stipulation, so he shouldn't be punished for violating his obligations. Besides (he will argue), he has already in effect punished himself, because the stipulation is the equivalent of one of the remedies provided for in FRCP 37(b)(2)(A)(i) ("directing that the matters embraced in the order or other designated facts be taken as established for purposes of the action, as the prevailing party claims").
Question: is this a bold move by Giuliani, by evading discovery now there will be no record that could potentially be quoted in future proceedings?
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:01 pm
by chancery
Nah. Since Giuliani claims he's going to make a motion to dismiss, presumably on the basis that his conduct was protected under the First Amendment, he can't preclude discovery into evidence of "actual malice" (roughly speaking, whether he made the false statements knowingly or with reckless indifference as to whether the statements were true or false).
Any damaging evidence would likely be relevant to the issue of actual malice. And from what little I know about the case, I suspect that his motion to dismiss will be a dead-in-the-water loser.
The "stipulation" - which should really be called a concession - might save him some money as to his own attorneys fees, but it's mostly a stunt that's not going to change the outcome of the case. Giuliani can't prevent the court from making factual findings that very likely could be used in other cases -- especially disciplinary proceedings.
Rudy Giuliani
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:32 pm
by chancery
A poster at the Lawyers Guns & Money blog agrees that Giulianiâs promised motion to dismiss isnât likely to do much for him, based on the judgeâs rough treatment of his First Amendment arguments earlier in the litigation.
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/20 ... ght-to-lie
Rudy admits he lied but is sticking to his free speech defense, because it was like, just his opinion, man. I doubt U.S. District Court Judge Beryl Howell will be pleased to see that argument a second time. [linking to the judge's decision denying Giuliani's earlier motion to dismiss on First Amendment grounds:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 0.31.0.pdf]
Giulianiâs third prong of attack on plaintiffsâ defamation claim is that all his challenged statements are protected opinion. Although, generally, opinions are not actionable because they are protected by the First Amendment, âeven a per se opinion is actionable if it can reasonably be understood as implying provable facts.ââ¨[âŚ]â¨The D.C. Circuit has provided guidance on how a protected opinion can bear a defamatory implication, explaining that â[j]ust as a speaker is not immunized from liability simply by prefacing otherwise defamatory statements with the words âIn my opinion . . . ,â defamatory assessments based on incorrect âfactsâ stated by the speaker are also actionable. Thus, the statement âIn my opinion Jones is a liar because he cheats on his taxesâ could be libelous if the allegation of cheating were untrue.ââ¨[âŚ]â¨Giulianiâs alleged statements accuse plaintiffs of criminal activityâwhich can be proven to be true or false in courtâ and, consequently, he cannot seek refuge under the opinion doctrine for the same reasons articulated in Moldea v. New York Times Company. Even if Giuliani made clear that his statements were his own subjective views, those statements still included accusations of election fraud that can be verified as true or false.
It will be like receiving the rancid leftovers of a meal that you didnât care for the first time around. And theyâre being served by Giuliani.
Also, Judge Howell has lost no time in ordering Giuliani to pay a substantial portion of the attorneys fees plaintiff has sought, reserving judgment on the rest, and also reserving judgment on whether to punish Giuliani further for failure to preserve records. See the minute order filed today:
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/61 ... er_by=desc
This lawsuit is going to end in a bad place for Giuliani, and the only effect his stunt will have is to hurry the train down the tracks.