Robert Laity v VP Kamala Harris

[bob]

My memory is shot but I thought I was taught if you was born here you’re a citizen (assuming you want to be) and can run when you hit the age qualification. Also, if your parents are citizens and happen to pop you out in, say, Belgium, you’re a citizen unless you choose otherwise. Maybe I need a refresher.

Except for children of diplomats and invading armies, those born in the United States are natural-born citizens. Which would include Obama.

Dershowitz was lazily extrapolating from Cruz to create an additional "rule": "You are a natural-born citizen if at least one parent was a U.S. citizen at time of birth." While that's mostly true, there are not insignificant exceptions (and exceptions to those exceptions).

Lost in all this was Laity's writing the Dersh to tell the Dersh that's he's wrong. Dersh, who taught at Harvard, and Laity, who bought a fake degree.

[Foggy]

Lost in all this was Laity's writing the Dersh to tell the Dersh that's he's wrong. Dersh, who taught at Harvard, and Laity, who bought a fake degree.

Not lost to all of us, I assure you.

In a perfect world, Dersh writes back to Laity and they strike up a correspondence, with all entries blabbed on the P&E. That would be the awesome.

[noblepa]

My memory is shot but I thought I was taught if you was born here you’re a citizen (assuming you want to be) and can run when you hit the age qualification. Also, if your parents are citizens and happen to pop you out in, say, Belgium, you’re a citizen unless you choose otherwise. Maybe I need a refresher.

The birthers will be happy to give you such a refresher, with emphasis on SCOTUS decisions, such as Wong Kim Ark and Minor v. Happersett, which they believe ruled that "Natural Born Citizen" means born on US soil to parents who were both citizens at the time. (Hint: Those cases don't rule any such thing, but don't try to argue the point with a birther)

[Foggy]

Yeah, because it was a big secret that his dad wasn't a citizen.

Nobody knew, before the election.

Or maybe Bush's Attorney General might have brought it up.

[Gregg]

HE WAS BORN IN THE UNITED STATES!!!
HE WAS BORN IN THE UNITED STATES!!!
HE WAS BORN IN THE UNITED STATES!!!

ffs...

Shouting won't help. The birthers argue that NBC status requires that BOTH parents be US citizens at the time of the child's birth, and they will never be convinced otherwise.



Even if SCOTUS were to take a case that directly involved the question of someone's NBC status, The birthers will find some way to move the goalposts.

The Supreme Court held in Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393 that

People of African descent "are not included, and were not intended to be included, under the word 'citizens' in the Constitution, and can therefore claim none of the rights and privileges which that instrument provides for and secures to citizens of the United States".

Obama's father was Kenyan, and thus Obama was of African descent, Q.E.D. everything is illegal and the country was thus surrendered to Anna von Pop Tart, forever and ever, Amen

[Reality Check]

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[Reality Check]

The Supreme Court held in Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393 that

People of African descent "are not included, and were not intended to be included, under the word 'citizens' in the Constitution, and can therefore claim none of the rights and privileges which that instrument provides for and secures to citizens of the United States".

Obama's father was Kenyan, and thus Obama was of African descent, Q.E.D. everything is illegal and the country was thus surrendered to Anna von Pop Tart, forever and ever, Amen

I saw Mario Apuzzo unabashedly cite Scott v Sandford several times in comments at various places.

Here is how the Birther argument would go if Barack Obama's father had been a naturalized citizen:

1. In Scott v Sandford the court ruled blacks cannot be natural born citizens.
2. The 14th Amendment did not overtuirn that part of Scott v Sandford
3. The 14th Amendment only dictates that people born on US soil are citizens, i. e. "14th Amendment citizens".
4. Ergo, no black person can be a natural born citizen

That is the logical end of the de Vattel nonsense.

Roger Taney was their kind of guy.

[Frater I*I]

Obama's father was Kenyan, and thus Obama was of African descent, Q.E.D. everything is illegal and the country was thus surrendered to Anna von Pop Tart, forever and ever, Amen

Sir, we here at the Fogbowz show proper respect and should use her full title of the Dishonourable Anna von Strudel de la Pop-Tart

[Gregg]

The Supreme Court held in Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393 that

People of African descent "are not included, and were not intended to be included, under the word 'citizens' in the Constitution, and can therefore claim none of the rights and privileges which that instrument provides for and secures to citizens of the United States".

Obama's father was Kenyan, and thus Obama was of African descent, Q.E.D. everything is illegal and the country was thus surrendered to Anna von Pop Tart, forever and ever, Amen

I saw Mario Apuzzo unabashedly cite Scott v Sandford several times in comments at various places.

Here is how the Birther argument would go if Barack Obama's father had been a naturalized citizen:

1. In Scott v Sandford the court ruled blacks cannot be natural born citizens.
2. The 14th Amendment did not overtuirn that part of Scott v Sandford
3. The 14th Amendment only dictates that people born on US soil are citizens, i. e. "14th Amendment citizens".
4. Ergo, no black person can be a natural born citizen

That is the logical end of the de Vattel nonsense.

Roger Taney was their kind of guy.

Clarence Thomas without the uppity wife. Better hair but just by a hair and white.

[Gregg]

Obama's father was Kenyan, and thus Obama was of African descent, Q.E.D. everything is illegal and the country was thus surrendered to Anna von Pop Tart, forever and ever, Amen

Sir, we here at the Fogbowz show proper respect and should use her full title of the Dishonourable Anna von Strudel de la Pop-Tart

You're gonna take my 750.000 Quatloos back, ain't ya?

[bob]

I saw Mario Apuzzo unabashedly cite Scott v Sandford several times in comments at various places.

Birthers, Apuzzo especially, liked to cite Dred Scott because a concurring opinion in it cited Vattel in the manner like they do (i.e., a rejection of birthright citizenship in favor of inherited citizenship). It also used the translation that had "natural born citizen" for "indigenes."

Some would get sneaky and refer to it by citation (60 U.S. 393) and not by name. Because they knew what message they were telegraphing but still believed it helped their ultimate argument.

[bob]

P&E comment:

Harris’s Father was NOT naturalized. I have provided absolute proof of this fact, in a signed, certified and stamped, document from the Director of the U.S. National Archives. Sharon has a copy, which I provided to her. I will also resend it today.

Literally no one doubt that Harris' parents weren't citizens when she was born. But Laity continues to confuse action for achievement.

[Gregg]

P&E comment:

Harris’s Father was NOT naturalized. I have provided absolute proof of this fact, in a signed, certified and stamped, document from the Director of the U.S. National Archives. Sharon has a copy, which I provided to her. I will also resend it today.

Literally no one doubt that Harris' parents weren't citizens when she was born. But Laity continues to confuse action for achievement.

Yeah but none of them are white so it doesn't count.

[Reality Check]

Factually pointing out that Chuckles Kerchner's late friend Mario Apuzzo had lost over a dozen times in court while pushing his theory that Minor v Happersett defined natural born citizen apparently crossed Rondeau's comment moderation threshold.

[bob]

Factually pointing out that Chuckles Kerchner's late friend Mario Apuzzo had lost over a dozen times in court while pushing his theory that Minor v Happersett defined natural born citizen apparently crossed Rondeau's comment moderation threshold.

Rondeau has unwritten rules; that's one of them.

Saying no one showed that Obama's birth certificate was forged is another.

[realist]

What a dipshit. But credit due for sticking to his "wrong" conclusions for all these years.

Rob Laity says:
Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 4:10 AM

All that hot air. The courts SAID that those born in the US to two citizen parents are NATURAL BORN citizens. All NBCs are citizens but not all citizens are NBCs.

ALL connections and application of British Law upon the jurisprudence of the USA, our NEW nation, independent and sovereign from Britain, ended on July 4, 1776.

British law does NOT apply in the USA nor does its jurisprudence.

[northland10]

In college, I may have gotten a bit shlozzzled and had a long conversation with a wall after it rudely reached out and hit me in the nose. It was far more productive than any conversation I have ever had with Laity.

Laity is 100% right and that's that. Nothing else will ever pierce that shield.

[Gene Kooper]

Boy, if there was ever a group that proved, "Stupid is as stupid does" it's the birthers. Maroons down to the last crumb in the cookie bag!

[bob]

Speaking of Kerchner:

The U.S. Constitution was entirely new law and their was no federal common law when it was written. Common law only existed within the 13 several states. The Law of Nations is even mentioned in the U.S. Constitution. See Article 1 Section 8. So those who say The Law of Nations was not used in writing the U.S. Constitution, or those who choose to ignore it, they are wrong and engaging in gas-lighting.

Who knew telling Kerchner he's wrong is gaslighting?!

[Suranis]

Clause 10

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

Anyone ever tell him that a chapter in Blackstone's Commentaries the most widely used Law book at the time of the writing of the constitution, was entitled "Of Offenses against the Law of Nations"?

And which constitution? There were 2 written, and the present one was the second...

[bob]

Clause 10

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

Anyone ever tell him that a chapter in Blackstone's Commentaries the most widely used Law book at the time of the writing of the constitution, was entitled "Of Offenses against the Law of Nations"?

Many times. But Kerchner, like every birther, hears only what he wants to hear.

For example:

Just because [William Rawle] said it doesn’t make the statement true. Like many commenters on this thread who claim that one’s parents need not be US Citizens for their Child to be an NBC, Rawles was wrong.

Gotta love the confidence of an old white guy who can't even get Rawle's name correct.

[realist]

Laity wrote:
Just because [William Rawle] said it doesn’t make the statement true. Like many commenters on this thread who claim that one’s parents need not be US Citizens for their Child to be an NBC, Rawles was wrong.

But if Laity or Apuzzo or Kerchner, et al. say it, that does make it true.

Got it.

[bob]

But if Laity or Apuzzo or Kerchner, et al. say it, that does make it true.

Some jerk* was going to make that point to Laity, but Rondeau baned some jerk yet again. (For attempting to say no one had proved Obama's birth certificate was forged.)

*

[Reality Check]

I doubt this comment in reply to Lanutty will make it either:

1. It does not matter that Minor v Happersett was unanimous or not.
2. Minor does not say that the only natural born citizens are those born in the US to citizen parents.
3. It does say there are only two kinds of citizens, natural born and naturalized.
4. Minor was not a citizenship case and the entire discussion of Virginia Minor’s citizenship was dicta.
5. No court has accepted Minor as the definitive case defining natural born.
6. Courts have accepted Wong Kim Ark as the definitive case deciding natural born. The vast majority of legal scholars agree.
7. In our country courts interpret the Constitution not private citizens.
8. No court has every ruled anyone born a citizen to be ineligible to serve as president based on parentage.
9. Barack Obama and Kamala Harris are natural born citizens and were eligible to serve in the offices they were elected and inaugurated.
10. No one’s like or dislike of any particular candidate or private views on the meaning of natural born will change 1 through 9.

[p0rtia]

Ya'll should get together and right a book documenting the insanity that was First Wave Birferism.

Seriously.