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Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

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Kendra
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#26

Post by Kendra »

I'm good with a public humiliation. Hopefully Dersh gets one too. :pray:
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#27

Post by Kendra »

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... halet.html
Prince Andrew 'is trying to force through sale of his £17m Swiss ski chalet because Queen refuses to foot legal bills in Virginia Giuffre sex abuse case' after it emerged he may SETTLE if trial is given green light to go ahead
Pic of the chateau at the link above.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#28

Post by Uninformed »

“Prince Andrew can sell Swiss chalet after settling £6.6m debt, say reports”:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... iss-chalet

“The Duke of York has settled a £6.6m debt with a French socialite allowing him to sell a Swiss chalet as he faces escalating legal bills over the sexual assault civil lawsuit brought by Virginia Giuffre, according to reports.
Isabelle de Rouvre, 74, who sold the property to Prince Andrew and Sarah, Duchess of York, in 2014 for a reported £18m, said: “The war is over. He has paid the money.”
Andrew and his ex-wife had agreed with Rouvre that Chalet Helora in the ski resort of Verbier in the Swiss Alps, would be paid for in instalments. But Rouvre claimed the two failed to make the final £5m instalment.
Initially Rouvre agreed the final instalment could be deferred until December 2019, with interest accruing, but the Yorks still did not honour the agreement despite repeated demands, it was reported.”
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#29

Post by Uninformed »

Also of interest-

“Prince Andrew tried to broker crown property deal for Kazakh oligarch”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... h-oligarch

“The Duke of York’s office tried to secure a crown estate property near Kensington Palace for the oil and gas tycoon Timur Kulibayev at the same time as his marital home of Sunninghill Park was being sold to the billionaire for £3m over the asking price.”

Sunning hill Park was the Queens wedding gift to Andrew.
“…it was sold in 2007 to Timur Kulibayev for $19.7 million which was $4 million more than the asking price. The house fell into disrepair and was demolished in 2016.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunninghill_Park
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#30

Post by RVInit »

The Queen's male offspring don't seem to have turned out to be the most decent of men. Don't know much about the daughter, she seems to manage to stay out of international news stories.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#31

Post by Kendra »

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/13/uk/princ ... index.html
London (CNN)Britain's Prince Andrew has been stripped of his military titles and charities, Buckingham Palace announced on Thursday, a day after a judge ruled a sexual abuse civil lawsuit against the Queen's son could proceed.

Andrew will also no longer use the style "His Royal Highness" in any official capacity, a royal source told CNN on Thursday.

"With The Queen's approval and agreement, the Duke of York's military affiliations and Royal patronages have been returned to The Queen. The Duke of York will continue not to undertake any public duties and is defending this case as a private citizen," the palace said in a statement.

The royal source also told CNN that "all of the Duke's roles have been handed back to the Queen with immediate effect for redistribution to other members of the Royal Family. For clarity, they will not return to The Duke of York."
Do we still call him Prince Andrew when we're talking about him here? :think: :confuzzled:
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#32

Post by filly »

Saw a CNN report on this yesterday. British reporter was talking about Andrew's options: (a) fight the case, have lots of sordid information come out (b) do nothing and let a default judgment be entered or (c) try to settle the case.

He pointed out that (c) may not be a viable option because Ms. Guiffre may not be interested in a monetary settlement (who knows?) and even if she were, it's going to be a lot of $$ and Andy would have to ask his mommy for the dough, and the Queen may not be open to that.

Interesting.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#33

Post by Kendra »

Is the Prince Andrew legal proceedings going to need its own thread? :confuzzled:


Prince Andrew has demanded a trial by jury in the sex abuse lawsuit filed by Virginia Giuffre.

Here are two of the 11 affirmative defenses he has asserted so far.

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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#34

Post by Maybenaut »

I never had sex with her, but if I did, she consented. :roll:
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#35

Post by RVInit »

I set up this thread as a way of discussing the excellent investigative reporting done on this case, as well as the uncovering of evidence that both state and federal prosecutors undermined any attempt to bring Epstein to justice. That's where the reference to Perversion of Justice comes from, this is the title of her book as well as the only real honest way to describe why Epstein was not brought to trial after the initial investigation.

As far as discussing others in this same thread, in many ways it's appropriate and for my part I don't have any problem with discussing the others in this thread. On the other hand, since there is a specific lawsuit and some people might want to follow that lawsuit by itself easily, maybe a new thread specifically for Prince Andrew would be helpful. I would probably read any thread about this particular group of people, it is sickening to me that only one person so far might be held responsible for her actions as to these victims.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#36

Post by Kendra »

RVInit wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:00 pm I set up this thread as a way of discussing the excellent investigative reporting done on this case, as well as the uncovering of evidence that both state and federal prosecutors undermined any attempt to bring Epstein to justice. That's where the reference to Perversion of Justice comes from, this is the title of her book as well as the only real honest way to describe why Epstein was not brought to trial after the initial investigation.

As far as discussing others in this same thread, in many ways it's appropriate and for my part I don't have any problem with discussing the others in this thread. On the other hand, since there is a specific lawsuit and some people might want to follow that lawsuit by itself easily, maybe a new thread specifically for Prince Andrew would be helpful. I would probably read any thread about this particular group of people, it is sickening to me that only one person so far might be held responsible for her actions as to these victims.
Thanks for the input. I may start a thread, but too tired to do it tonight. If anyone else is inclined, go for it. :thumbsup:
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#37

Post by W. Kevin Vicklund »

Kendra wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:13 pm
RVInit wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:00 pm I set up this thread as a way of discussing the excellent investigative reporting done on this case, as well as the uncovering of evidence that both state and federal prosecutors undermined any attempt to bring Epstein to justice. That's where the reference to Perversion of Justice comes from, this is the title of her book as well as the only real honest way to describe why Epstein was not brought to trial after the initial investigation.

As far as discussing others in this same thread, in many ways it's appropriate and for my part I don't have any problem with discussing the others in this thread. On the other hand, since there is a specific lawsuit and some people might want to follow that lawsuit by itself easily, maybe a new thread specifically for Prince Andrew would be helpful. I would probably read any thread about this particular group of people, it is sickening to me that only one person so far might be held responsible for her actions as to these victims.
Thanks for the input. I may start a thread, but too tired to do it tonight. If anyone else is inclined, go for it. :thumbsup:
"The Royal Formerly Known as Prince" would make for a snazzy title (at least in part)
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#38

Post by Ben-Prime »

Kendra wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:21 pm Is the Prince Andrew legal proceedings going to need its own thread? :confuzzled:


Prince Andrew has demanded a trial by jury in the sex abuse lawsuit filed by Virginia Giuffre.

Here are two of the 11 affirmative defenses he has asserted so far.

Background,
@LawCrimeNews
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/fe ... -year-old/
Trial by Jury? Damn, I lose money. I was sure he'd request Trial by *Combat*.
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And justice shall be done.

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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#39

Post by FiveAcres »

Settlement reached:

Prince Andrew and Virginia Giuffre agree to settlement of sex abuse lawsuit

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/15/us/princ ... index.html
(CNN)Prince Andrew and Virginia Giuffre have reached a settlement, according to a court document filed by Giuffre's attorneys Tuesday.

The parties anticipate filing a stipulation of dismissal of the case within 30 days, according to the letter addressed to federal Judge Lewis Kaplan.
The sum of the settlement will not be disclosed, the filing says.
"Prince Andrew intends to make a substantial donation to Ms. Giuffre's charity in support of victims' rights. Prince Andrew has never intended to malign Ms. Giuffre's character, and he accepts that she has suffered both as an established victim of abuse and as a result of unfair public attacks. It is known that Jeffrey Epstein trafficked countless young girls over many years. Prince Andrew regrets his association with Epstein, and commends the bravery of Ms. Giuffre and other survivors in standing up for themselves and others. He pledges to demonstrate his regret for his association with Epstein by supporting the fight against the evils of sex trafficking, and by supporting its victims."
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#40

Post by Uninformed »

Well then, that’s total exoneration for our noble prince.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#41

Post by Azastan »

Uninformed wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:47 am Well then, that’s total exoneration for our noble prince.

Guess the missing 'original' photo was found after all.

I wonder if Her Majesty will cut him off in her will?
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#42

Post by LM K »

Azastan wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:04 pm
Uninformed wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:47 am Well then, that’s total exoneration for our noble prince.

Guess the missing 'original' photo was found after all.

I wonder if Her Majesty will cut him off in her will?
:roll:
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#43

Post by Azastan »

LM K wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 5:31 pm
Azastan wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:04 pm
Uninformed wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:47 am Well then, that’s total exoneration for our noble prince.

Guess the missing 'original' photo was found after all.

I wonder if Her Majesty will cut him off in her will?
:roll:
For those wondering, apparently Andrew's lawyers were busily claiming that the photo of Andrew with his arm around the waist of Ms Giuffre was a photoshop. Ms Giuffre had said she thought it was boxed up in several boxes she had packed on her move to Australia and didn't know where it was.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-famil ... ce-andrew/
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#44

Post by LM K »

Azastan wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 6:09 pm
LM K wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 5:31 pm
Azastan wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:04 pm


Guess the missing 'original' photo was found after all.

I wonder if Her Majesty will cut him off in her will?
:roll:
For those wondering, apparently Andrew's lawyers were busily claiming that the photo of Andrew with his arm around the waist of Ms Giuffre was a photoshop. Ms Giuffre had said she thought it was boxed up in several boxes she had packed on her move to Australia and didn't know where it was.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-famil ... ce-andrew/
Unfortunately, hit the paywall.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#45

Post by Suranis »

Andrew was already cut off from the Royal Family and had all his roles and titles removed. He went to meet his Mom to plead his case and was met by the queen and a room full of functionaries rather than the private chat he wanted, and the functionaries refused to leave when he asked them to.

Basically, he got the freeze-out treatment, so he probably wanted this to go away as fast as possible so he could vanish from the limelight.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#46

Post by Azastan »

LM K wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 6:23 pm
Azastan wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 6:09 pm
LM K wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 5:31 pm

:roll:
For those wondering, apparently Andrew's lawyers were busily claiming that the photo of Andrew with his arm around the waist of Ms Giuffre was a photoshop. Ms Giuffre had said she thought it was boxed up in several boxes she had packed on her move to Australia and didn't know where it was.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-famil ... ce-andrew/
Unfortunately, hit the paywall.
I'm on a roll today with my links! Let's hope the Daily Beast doesn't let me down (but just in case, the whole story is in the spoiler):

https://www.thedailybeast.com/epstein-v ... nce-andrew
► Show Spoiler
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#47

Post by LM K »

Thanks, Azastan!

So, Andrew requests a jury trial. Giuffre then explains she doesn't have the original photo. What defendant wouldn't demand an original photo?

But because this has turned into such a conspiracy theory, there will be no acknowledgement that the loss of an original photo was enough to create a favorable settlement for both parties.

So, I ask those who insist that Andrew is guilty; does the lack of the original photo lead you to question any of your unsupported beliefs about this case?

For the record; I don't know if Andrew is guilty of sexually assaulting Giuffre or not. I find the "yabuts" to be nothing but conspiracy. It greatly bothers me that any human being would be labeled a rapist without solid evidence.

And no, I'm not a royalist.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#48

Post by Uninformed »

LMK is right that Andrew has not been proven to be a perpetrator of sexual abuse, and it is extremely unlikely that the question will ever be resolved. My opinion is, yes he had something(s) to hide, exactly what I don’t know. Andrew’s history is littered with bad decisions and dubious associations. What offends me now are the fully expected comments from royal groupies etc, such as:

“Former Royal Navy officer Rear Adm Chris Parry, who was Prince Andrew's flight commander, added: "I think really he should look to a private life and enjoy essentially what is a very good privileged lifestyle. But I think he should stay out of the public eye."
He said it was "good to see that he's done the decent thing" - but that Prince Andrew "has made some bad choices" and "needs to surround himself with better friends".”

“New York attorney Randy Zelin told BBC's Americast podcast that he thought both sides had won.
Mr Zelin said: "Both sides won, both sides got what they wanted, both sides gave a little something up, both sides can hold their heads up high".
Speaking in support of the duke, British socialite Lady Victoria Hervey said she hopes the Royal Family could now focus on the upcoming jubilee celebrations, and that "Prince Andrew can put these false allegations behind him".”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60397947

“done the decent thing”; “both sides can hold their heads up high”; “false allegations”.

:bored:
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#49

Post by Sam the Centipede »

Uninformed wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:59 am LMK is right that Andrew has not been proven to be a perpetrator of sexual abuse, and it is extremely unlikely that the question will ever be resolved.
What would constitute "proof"? With so many lawyers here, the focus tends to be on courts as the proving ground, but civil courts exist to resolve disputes, not to establish facts. If the parties cease to be in dispute, the court loses its role.

So those of us without privileged access to first-hand knowledge or reliable sources have to make our judgements based on the reports, analysis and opinions of others. We have no duty to anyone in forming those judgements if they remain private and with little impact on others.

Hence it's a Bayesian analysis, a weighting of beliefs, not first order true/false logic.

There is so much direct and circumstantial evidence (I'm not using that as a legal term) that Andrew is a bumptious, entitled person who abuses his privileged position. What precisely happened between him and Giuffre? I don't know, I don't care, but I believe there was much sordid behavior and he was a large or small part of it. And there is little or no evidence to the contrary.

I wouldn't hold up a placard accusing or defaming Andrew but I would quietly object if (hypothetically) any organization I was connected with invited him in. I think that's a proportionate response.

I think it's significant that Andrew received no open support from his family. Ok, they're a weird bunch, but I can only draw adverse inferences from that booming silence.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#50

Post by PaulG »

It's the old second son problem. You only need one son pass the title to. Poor Andrew, he's not going to be king, he's never going to be king. Now, even if the rest of the royal family died, he wouldn't be king. In the good old days you could put him in the church, or send him off on a crusade, make him governor of a colony, put him in charge of polishing all the armor. Nowadays? He hangs around being louche.
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