Gun Control
- John Thomas8
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Re: Gun Control
Sigh.
The gun isn't evil.
The lack of affordable and effective mental health care is.
The gun isn't evil.
The lack of affordable and effective mental health care is.
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Re: Gun Control
The love of the power that guns give is evil..John Thomas8 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:48 pm Sigh.
The gun isn't evil.
The lack of affordable and effective mental health care is.
and yes the use that they are too often put to is evil..
and yes,
The lack of affordable and effective mental health care is...
as well.
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Re: Gun Control
Unfortunately the voices of sanity will not sway the cult of death.Uninformed wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:47 pm For those who haven’t seen it this is Jim Wright’s ideas for initial gun control legislation:
http://www.stonekettle.com/2015/06/bang ... anity.html
- John Thomas8
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Re: Gun Control
Um, wut? I enjoy shooting, a lot. Events like 2-gun action matches are challenging, enjoyable and healthy. Time at the range is satisfying. Implying that I or the vast number of gun owners use "love of the power that guns give" is objectionable at best.Dave from down under wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:23 pm
The love of the power that guns give is evil..
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Re: Gun Control
Good pick up..John Thomas8 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:43 pmUm, wut? I enjoy shooting, a lot. Events like 2-gun action matches are challenging, enjoyable and healthy. Time at the range is satisfying. Implying that I or the vast number of gun owners use "love of the power that guns give" is objectionable at best.Dave from down under wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:23 pm
The love of the power that guns give is evil..
The love of the power that guns give over others is evil..
Re: Gun Control
I read a while back that the Background checks system has been deliberately sabotaged by republicans. Basically the FBI are not allowed to store records of background checks, meaning that if someone applies they have to do the check from the ground up all over again. Other things that basically slow the check down to uselessness, while also making it legal for people to get their gun within a day of the beginning of their background check.John Thomas8 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:46 pm What exactly does a background check do given how badly it has been implemented.
Hic sunt dracones
- John Thomas8
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Re: Gun Control
Still doesn't apply to the vast number of gun owners.Dave from down under wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:49 pm
Good pick up..
The love of the power that guns give over others is evil..
You don't get to call me evil because I own an AR-type rifle.
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Re: Gun Control
If you love that power over others...John Thomas8 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:00 pmStill doesn't apply to the vast number of gun owners.Dave from down under wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:49 pm
Good pick up..
The love of the power that guns give over others is evil..
You don't get to call me evil because I own an AR-type rifle.
I do get to call you evil..
Just as you get to call people who fear guns in the hands of the criminal/insane/drunk scared..
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Re: Gun Control
If you don’t love that power over others.
Then I’m not calling you evil
Only you know if that applies to you.
Then I’m not calling you evil
Only you know if that applies to you.
Re: Gun Control
Ok enough.
Yes people get a feeling of a surge of power when they hold a gun.
Good gun owners and people in the army/etc train themselves to suppress that feeling, to think clearly. And go with simple enjoyment
Others do not and become addicted.
One is fine. The addicts are dangerous.
You do not get to blame the first because others let the adrenaline surge get away from them.
Yes people get a feeling of a surge of power when they hold a gun.
Good gun owners and people in the army/etc train themselves to suppress that feeling, to think clearly. And go with simple enjoyment
Others do not and become addicted.
One is fine. The addicts are dangerous.
You do not get to blame the first because others let the adrenaline surge get away from them.
Hic sunt dracones
- John Thomas8
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Re: Gun Control
That's an assumption that doesn't have any factual basis. You're not arguing from an honest position.Dave from down under wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:05 pm
If you love that power over others...
I do get to call you evil..
Just as you get to call people who fear guns in the hands of the criminal/insane/drunk scared..
- roadscholar
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Re: Gun Control
THIS is the deal: how to prevent the mass killers from accessing guns, before they kill.
Anything else is not.
A huge majority of these guys had red flags about their mental stability ahead of the incident. Something has to be done about them, not the guns. Tim McVeigh didn’t use a gun. But several people close to him were convinced he would “go off” one day.
There is a class of people who aren’t allowed to buy guns now. Felons. Drug addicts. The criminally insane. And background checks are the only thing that MIGHT stop them from getting guns, and expanding that profile to stop the perpetrators of deranged mass killings is fine with me.
Background checks stop thousands of improper gun sales every year. A bit of minor inconvenience to sane gun owners is trivial compared to the horrors we see now.
Anything else is not.
A huge majority of these guys had red flags about their mental stability ahead of the incident. Something has to be done about them, not the guns. Tim McVeigh didn’t use a gun. But several people close to him were convinced he would “go off” one day.
There is a class of people who aren’t allowed to buy guns now. Felons. Drug addicts. The criminally insane. And background checks are the only thing that MIGHT stop them from getting guns, and expanding that profile to stop the perpetrators of deranged mass killings is fine with me.
Background checks stop thousands of improper gun sales every year. A bit of minor inconvenience to sane gun owners is trivial compared to the horrors we see now.
The bitterest truth is more wholesome than the sweetest lie.
Re: Gun Control
I'm not sure what an AR-15 type rifle needs to be in the hands of civilians. Why not just a decent Glock or similar handgun for their personal and home protection if they are in fear?
I live in an area that has crime. I have the means/money to move to a better "safer" area of the county, but I stay because I try to make a difference. -- and I don't carry a gun on me.
Those with big guns like an AR-15 are just scared and think it makes them more safe or powerful. Nope.
Look at the stats between the USA and other western nations and you see how extremely violent we are in comparison given all our guns. I guess, we are indeed "exceptional", but in the worst way.
I live in an area that has crime. I have the means/money to move to a better "safer" area of the county, but I stay because I try to make a difference. -- and I don't carry a gun on me.
Those with big guns like an AR-15 are just scared and think it makes them more safe or powerful. Nope.
Look at the stats between the USA and other western nations and you see how extremely violent we are in comparison given all our guns. I guess, we are indeed "exceptional", but in the worst way.
- John Thomas8
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Re: Gun Control
What? It's obscene to make such a blatantly incorrect statement. ATF is not a "minor inconvenience", it's an actual manufacturer of turning honest people into criminals. Gun sales regulated by ATF cost millions of dollars and prevent honest people from behaving honestly.roadscholar wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:47 pm Background checks stop thousands of improper gun sales every year. A bit of minor inconvenience to sane gun owners is trivial compared to the horrors we see now.
Fix the mental health system, don't criminalize constitutionally protected behaviour.
- John Thomas8
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Re: Gun Control
Which is why I acknowledged that and amended my view on what I consider is evil.
Ie the love of power over others
Just as I believe sadism is evil.
Just as I believe slavery is evil.
Etc
Re: Gun Control
I know they hunt Wild Boar with assault weapons in eastern Europe - but they limit the Magazine to 3 rounds.
Hic sunt dracones
Re: Gun Control
Why do you own an AR-15?John Thomas8 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:54 pmReally? Those are the only reasons to own an AR-15? You're certain? Because you'd be wrong.
- Gregg
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Re: Gun Control
All I'm gonna say.
Supreme Commander, Imperial Illuminati Air Force
You don't have to consent, but I'm gonna tase you anyway.
![Dog :dog:](./images/smilies/dog.gif)
You don't have to consent, but I'm gonna tase you anyway.
- roadscholar
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Re: Gun Control
I don’t think demonstrable need is the issue. My own brother owns guns nobody really “needs.” He enjoys owning and firing them. He is an aerospace engineer and military special arms designer. An AR-15 in his hands would never be used against a living being of any sort.
The argument over them is a lot like the one about Pit Bulls. Both can be used by evil people with vicious intent, but neither are inherently dangerous. Focus on the people... if a guy has owned Pit Bulls he turned aggressive, hosted dog fights, thrown mild-mannered bait dogs to the killers, well maybe he should be prohibited from owning another Pit Bull.
Same goes for assault weapons. Prevent future tragedy. That’s the deal.
There are already stringent requirements for owning full-auto weapons. Anyone ready to argue that there shouldn’t be?
The argument over them is a lot like the one about Pit Bulls. Both can be used by evil people with vicious intent, but neither are inherently dangerous. Focus on the people... if a guy has owned Pit Bulls he turned aggressive, hosted dog fights, thrown mild-mannered bait dogs to the killers, well maybe he should be prohibited from owning another Pit Bull.
Same goes for assault weapons. Prevent future tragedy. That’s the deal.
There are already stringent requirements for owning full-auto weapons. Anyone ready to argue that there shouldn’t be?
The bitterest truth is more wholesome than the sweetest lie.
- John Thomas8
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Re: Gun Control
Regardless, gun owners aren't evil because they own guns.Dave from down under wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:58 pmWhich is why I acknowledged that and amended my view on what I consider is evil.
Ie the love of power over others
Just as I believe sadism is evil.
Just as I believe slavery is evil.
Etc
People that use guns to shoot other people are evil. This may or may not include people in wars, that being a completely other topic.
There's an intense and blatant distinction.
Guns aren't evil.
- John Thomas8
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Re: Gun Control
Yep, but it won't happen here. There's too many "guns are evil" folks here to make a sane conversation possible. I think the 1934 ban is quite unconstitutional. The subsequent laws are even worse.
- Gregg
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Re: Gun Control
![Bag :bag:](./images/smilies/bag.gif)
Supreme Commander, Imperial Illuminati Air Force
You don't have to consent, but I'm gonna tase you anyway.
![Dog :dog:](./images/smilies/dog.gif)
You don't have to consent, but I'm gonna tase you anyway.
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Re: Gun Control
Guns aren't evil.
Neither is bathtub badly cut meth inherently evil..
Because it is just a chemical compound
Evil is the human who makes/sells it know what it will do to others.
So guns aren’t evil - they are tools with many legitimate uses.
So why are they used so much for such evil?
Neither is bathtub badly cut meth inherently evil..
Because it is just a chemical compound
Evil is the human who makes/sells it know what it will do to others.
So guns aren’t evil - they are tools with many legitimate uses.
So why are they used so much for such evil?
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Re: Gun Control
1.How does ATF turn honest people into criminals?John Thomas8 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:53 pmWhat? It's obscene to make such a blatantly incorrect statement. ATF is not a "minor inconvenience", it's an actual manufacturer of turning honest people into criminals. Gun sales regulated by ATF cost millions of dollars and prevent honest people from behaving honestly.roadscholar wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:47 pm Background checks stop thousands of improper gun sales every year. A bit of minor inconvenience to sane gun owners is trivial compared to the horrors we see now.
Fix the mental health system, don't criminalize constitutionally protected behaviour.
2. People with mental illnesses are not statistically more likely to commit crimes.
3. Limiting types of weapons has been the subject of constitutional law for decades as guns have become more deadly.