Confederate monuments

[Maybenaut]

It's like Colonel Sanders and The Burger King had an unholy union.

[sugar magnolia]

I'm just curious how they finally got it down. They've tried multiple times, including plans to build some sort of wall on the Interstate to block the view, but it's on private property and the owner has resisted all efforts.

We used it as a landmark to know where to turn when going to our friend's house in N'ville.

[insomnia]

I think the owner of the property died and his estate pulled it down because they want to sell.

[pipistrelle]

I'm just curious how they finally got it down. They've tried multiple times, including plans to build some sort of wall on the Interstate to block the view, but it's on private property and the owner has resisted all efforts.

We used it as a landmark to know where to turn when going to our friend's house in N'ville.

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/natha ... -2-decades

The rest of the property went to the Battle of Nashville Trust. The executor of the will decided to remove the statue, with the approval of the trust.

The group issued a statement explaining why, in part:

Forrest was not at the Battle of Nashville.
The property has no historical significance to the battle.
The statue was ugly.
Even Forrest would think it was was ugly.
And so, 23 years after the fiberglass and steel statue went up, Nathan Bedford Forrest and his horse came down. They are now gone from their very visible perch above the interstate just south of the city.

[Volkonski]

[Dave from down under]

Is this called a “Mopping Up” mission..

Took them long enough to do it..
And while they are at it…
There are a lot of seditious supporters still in uniform and government that need to be mopped up too.

[northland10]

I sense a rage "Truth" binge from the whiner.

[roadscholar]

Oog… that’s about the worst representational art I’ve ever seen.

And I’ve seen Kinkade.

[keith]

Great move.

But first they should do it for Benedict Arnold.

Wait... Wut?

[Sam the Centipede]

But how will they rename those bases and streets? Do you want to stroll along Jared Avenue in Fort Donald or to meet a friend at Melania Plaza at the Trump Space Force Base?

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

[Kriselda Gray]

It's about time! I've never understood why we would honor traitors who were trying to break up the country.

[noblepa]

It's about time! I've never understood why we would honor traitors who were trying to break up the country.

I don't understand, either.

RWNJ's love to accuse anyone they don't like, for doing anything they don't like, of Treason, whereas the Constitution is very specific about the subject.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

There never was a more clear-cut, obvious case of treason than every person who donned a Confederate uniform and fought for the Confederacy.

If I remember my high-school US History classes, it was only due to Abraham Lincoln's magnanimity, that massive treason trials were not held, at least for the Confederate military and civil leadership. A lot of people wanted to hang Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis, but Lincoln spoke eloquently of binding the nation's wounds, rather than exacting revenge.

[Frater I*I]

A lot of people wanted to hang Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis, but Lincoln spoke eloquently of binding the nation's wounds, rather than exacting revenge.

Yeah, I don't think that was the best call...the Civil War never ended down here...it just went from a hot war to a cold one...

[northland10]

The segregated south allowed their representation in Congress to remain higher than their actual eligible voters (POC were now a whole person but could not vote). With the solid south, their reps and senators would remain in office for a long time. When they could get needed northerners to support some things, they need only dangle some legislation bribes to get the votes. Controlling funding committees doesn't hurt.

This is how all these bases ended up with Confederate general names.

[much ado]

Thanks northland! I was about to ask why that had happened.

[Gregg]

It's about time! I've never understood why we would honor traitors who were trying to break up the country.

They were all named around WWI when the US Army first started training mass numbers of troops. They needed to be in the South because the Army needed to be able to train year round. They were the places that Basic Training took place and where domestic garrisons were maintained. Also, in WWII, some of them served as POW camps. It was also the first time the Army had significant numbers of African American troops outside of the west.

Mostly it was done to get southern cities to tolerate the stationing of armed black men in their area. It was also a rule on most of those bases as late as the 1950s that "colored troops" were not allowed to go into the neighboring towns unless they were going to strictly defined parts of the city. Oddly enough, during WWII when they were keeping German and Italian POWs in these bases, the prisoners were free to go into town most weekends, although the soldiers guarding them were not. It was, part intimidation of the black soldiers and part bowing down to the locals.

[Gregg]

If I remember my high-school US History classes, it was only due to Abraham Lincoln's magnanimity, that massive treason trials were not held, at least for the Confederate military and civil leadership. A lot of people wanted to hang Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis, but Lincoln spoke eloquently of binding the nation's wounds, rather than exacting revenge.

Not exactly. While Lincoln had instructed Grant and Sherman to "let them down easy" he didn't issue any pardons or instruct anyone on clemency. He died before that came up. The fact is, Andrew Johnson was practically drooling to start hanging traitors after the war ended but US Grant wouldn't let him. Grant's terms to Lee, which were more or less the same as Sherman's to JE Johnston and to the rest of the Confederate Armies, were written in such a way that prosecuting any Confederates would be a problem.

General R.E. Lee,

Commanding C.S. Army:

GENERAL: In accordance with the substance of my letter to you on the 8th instant, I propose to receive the surrender of the Army of Northern Virginia on the following terms to wit: Rolls of all the officers and men to be made in duplicate –one copy to be given to an officer designed by me, the other to be retained by such officer or officers as you may designate; the officers to give their individual paroles to not to take up arms against the Government of the United States until properly exchanged, and each company or regimental commander sign a like parole for the men of their commands. The arms, artillery, and public property to be parked and stacked, and turned over to the officers appointed by me to receive them. This will not embrace the side-arms of the officers, nor their private horses or baggage. This done, each officer and man will be allowed to return to their homes, not to be disturbed by United States authority so long as they observe their paroles and the laws in force where they may reside.

Very respectfully,

U.S. Grant

When Johnson told Grant to start rounding up Generals, Grant flat out said no and being at the time the most famous man in the country, loved both North and South by a lot of people, Johnson backed down. It was the end of the honeymoon between the two and marked the point where it became inevitable that Grant would be President.

[Kriselda Gray]

Thank you, Gregg! I appreciate the lesson!

[RTH10260]

Richmond is removing its last remaining Confederate statue

By Michelle Watson and Nicole Chavez, CNN
Published 2:33 PM EST, Mon December 12, 2022

The city of Richmond, Virginia, started removing its last standing Confederate monument on Monday.

City workers lifted the bronze statue depicting Gen. A.P. Hill, a Confederate general killed during the Third Battle of Petersburg in the American Civil War, from its base at the intersection of the city’s Hermitage Road and Laburnum Avenue.

“Over two years ago, Richmond was home to more confederate statues than any city in the United States. Collectively, we have closed that chapter. We now continue the work of being a more inclusive and welcoming place where ALL belong,” Richmond Mayor Levar Stoney tweeted on Monday about the statue.

Hill’s statue, which was erected on top of the general’s burial site, is the latest addition to a growing list of Confederate symbols that have been taken down across the country since George Floyd’s death in 2020 sparked a nationwide reckoning with police brutality and racism.

In 2020, a state law passed giving local governments in the Old Dominion the right to keep or remove Confederate monuments.

Richmond, which was once the capital of the Confederacy, has since removed several monuments including a statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee. Protesters had toppled a monument of Jefferson Davis, the president of the Confederacy.

The removal of Hill’s monument had been challenged in court but a ruling by Circuit Court Judge David Eugene Cheek Sr. in October cleared the way for the city to proceed.

Indirect descendants of Hill, who disagreed with the city’s plan to move the statue to the Black History Museum, argued that the site was a cemetery and that they had the right to move the monument and the remains.

The judge ordered the city to relocate the statue to a museum and Hill’s remains to a local cemetery, according to a court order and opinion letter reviewed by CNN.



https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/12/us/r ... index.html

[pipistrelle]

This post is from the Boebert thread but wanted to add this article from the National Park Service.

Lee was a strict disciplinarian and some enslaved people defied Lee’s orders or attempted to seek the freedom they felt had been promised by the late Custis. In that regard, Lee wrote to his son that Custis had “left me an unpleasant legacy.”[11] Wesley Norris, who was enslaved by Custis, recalled how Lee ordered the whipping of himself and two others who tried to free themselves from Arlington House by running north.[12] Lee often rented enslaved people to other plantations or owners to avoid managing them.

[Volkonski]

Ft. Hood to officially drop its Confederate name and become Ft. Cavazos
On May 9, the base will adopt the name of Gen. Richard Cavazos, the first Latino four-star general, part of a years-long process to replace installations honoring the Confederacy.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/for ... -rcna76561

Fort Hood, the sprawling Army base in Central Texas, will be officially renamed Fort Cavazos on May 9, base officials announced Friday.

From that day on, Fort Hood will carry the name of Gen. Richard Cavazos, a highly decorated war veteran who was the first Latino four-star general and first Latino brigadier general. It currently bears the name of a Confederate general, John Bell Hood.

The name change was recommended by the Department of Defense's Naming Commission, which was created in 2021 after Congress ordered in a defense spending bill the removal of all imagery and titles honoring the Confederacy.

Defense Secretary Lloyd J. Austin ordered the commission’s recommended name change last October.

"We are proud to be renaming Fort Hood as Fort Cavazos in recognition of an outstanding American hero, a veteran of the Korea and Vietnam wars and the first Hispanic to reach the rank of four-star general in our Army," Lt. Gen. Sean Bernabe, commanding general of the III Armored Corps and Fort Hood in a statement.

"General Cavazos' combat proven leadership, his moral character and his loyalty to his soldiers and their families, made him the fearless, yet respected and influential leader that he was during the time he served and beyond," Bernabe stated.

Fort Hood is the headquarters of III Armored Corps and the renaming ceremony — open only to invited guests and media — will be held there, base officials said in a news release. The event is not open to the public because of space constraints, but the event will be livestreamed on the base's social media sites, according to the base's statement.

Cavazos, who died in 2017 at 78, was a Mexican American born in Kingsville, Texas. He commanded III Corps, headquartered at Fort Hood, among other assignments.

[MN-Skeptic]

[Volkonski]

Going to take a while to get used to the new names.

I still am not used to the Triborough Bridge being the RFK Bridge and the Tappan Zee Bridge being the Cuomo Bridge.

[pipistrelle]

Going to take a while to get used to the new names.

I still am not used to the Triborough Bridge being the RFK Bridge and the Tappan Zee Bridge being the Cuomo Bridge.

Pootriots can't complain about Fort Liberty. (They can but who cares.)

Not the Tappan Zee!