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School related violence

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Suranis
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Re: School related violence

#201

Post by Suranis »

So he could have been Developing Schizophrenia. I had a Schizophrenia episode when I was 15 and it was pretty scary. That "Stop the thoughts from other people" analysis could be very incisive.

At which point I would be pushing for an insanity defense to get the kid into care and get the help he needs. Getting thrown into the prison system is the last thing he needs.
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RVInit
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Re: School related violence

#202

Post by RVInit »

At the risk of sounding like a broken record I'm going to go ahead and say it. I have seen what Fox Spews does to fully developed adult brains. I've watched people who never were obsessed about certain things that can't quit bringing up Chicago! or ranting about "statistics" from the FBI about how Black people kill more...yada yada yada.

Two weeks of a fully developed adult watching Fox turns their brains to mush, causes a complete breakdown of empathy, and starts a person down the path of separation from reality. I can't even imagine what happens inside the brains of a young person who grows up in such a household. Most healthy 15 year olds prefer to spend time with their friends. Most healthy 15 year olds have a mother than knows she is not her son's partner in crime, but she is his mother, supposed to teach him right from wrong, etc. This mother, when confronted with evidence if his wrongdoing, chose to ignore the school's phone calls and text messages and instead sent an 'LOL" text to her son, letting him know she "stands with Ethan". This is what I meant by "partner in crime". It does not sound like this kid had healthy relationships outside the home, I would bet any amount of money he sat with his parents watching Tucker Carlson night after night telling them how enraged they should be. I wonder sometimes why we don't have more adults out there shooting everyone, given how many people are addicted to Fox Rage TV. But a 15 year old who hears that shit all night long?

There are two kinds of people in this country - those who watch Fox and those who don't. And it's not hard at all at this point to tell them apart. Talk to anyone long enough and you will hear the telltale signs of it. Sooner or later they will spew, word for word, crap they've heard on Fox. I live right in the middle of Fox country, I see how these people live. And they don't shy from openly talking about this shit in front of their kids, of having it on when their kids are around.
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Re: School related violence

#203

Post by Slim Cognito »

Two things:

1. I read an article which was more detailed. Sorry I don't remember where but, when called out on altering the sketch, he explained it as video game he was developing/he wanted to be a video game developer. :roll:
2. Fox Rage TV is the perfect title. I lost a very good neighbor friend to Tucker Carlson, who turned out to be her gateway drug to the hardcore RWNJ stuff. (she didn't just lost her neighborhood friends, she ended up losing her husband. And he was no raging liberal.)
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Re: School related violence

#204

Post by raison de arizona »

Slim Cognito wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:02 am Two things:

1. I read an article which was more detailed. Sorry I don't remember where but, when called out on altering the sketch, he explained it as video game he was developing/he wanted to be a video game developer. :roll:
School shooting suspect told counselors alarming drawings were for video game, superintendent says

The suspect in the deadly shooting at a Michigan high school reportedly told school guidance counselors that the alarming drawings his teacher discovered the morning of Tuesday's massacre were for a video game he was designing, school officials said.
:snippity:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/school-shooti ... d=81559292
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Re: School related violence

#205

Post by Slim Cognito »

Thanks!!!! :biggrin:
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Re: School related violence

#206

Post by filly »

I have probably read hundreds of articles about this shooting. IIRC the teacher who found the note took a photo on her phone that shows the "before" of the note. I can't put my hands on it right now but that's what I was reading around the time the parents went on the lam.
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Re: School related violence

#207

Post by raison de arizona »

filly wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:39 am I have probably read hundreds of articles about this shooting. IIRC the teacher who found the note took a photo on her phone that shows the "before" of the note. I can't put my hands on it right now but that's what I was reading around the time the parents went on the lam.
That is my firm recollection as well.

I began developing schizophrenic symptoms in my teens, and it was really scary. Mine are rarely as forceful as the simulator Cooper used, but that was eye opening. Mine tend to be either sounds, like phones or bells ringing, or whispered voices that I can rarely make out what they are saying. And I don't want to. It would be devastating to experience the ones Cooper was subjected to, and with the stigma of mental illness I could see a teen reluctant to seek help right away.

If that is what was going on with him.

If he was in fact experiencing schizophrenic symptoms, I wonder if he had any visual hallucinations. I generally only get those when I've been off my meds for awhile, and more so than the auditories I experience, they are very disorienting and difficult to deal with. I see what I call shadow people, and it took me quite some time to see them and be able to say, he isn't real. He's a figment of your mind messing with you. Years of Zen Buddhism and studying the mind as a sense organ helped immeasurably with this. When I was younger I went over a year unable to drive safely because I would see obstacles thrown in the road in front of me, boxes, cones, barriers. I scraped my car along one of those big cement lane dividers once trying to avoid things that weren't there before giving up driving for a long period.

This is all speculation, but if he was in fact experiencing these symptoms, I could totally see a young teen coming up with a cover story (i.e. this is for a video game) rather than admitting that he was hearing voices in his head.
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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Re: School related violence

#208

Post by Dave from down under »

Any evidence that the parents tried to enter Canada?
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bob
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Re: School related violence

#209

Post by bob »

Dave from down under wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:42 pm Any evidence that the parents tried to enter Canada?
There's no evidence the parents attempted to enter Canada.

Their intent to enter Canada is being inferred from their safe space's proximity to the Detroit–Windsor tunnel.
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Re: School related violence

#210

Post by raison de arizona »

Dave from down under wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:42 pm Any evidence that the parents tried to enter Canada?
News reporting indicated that their hideout was halfway between where they started and the border, but I don't believe any conclusions may be drawn from that. Dunno.

In other school violence related news, thx tfg.
Opinion: The MAGA cult of violence is having predictable consequences
As a candidate and then president, Donald Trump regularly cheered violence. He exhorted his supporters to beat protesters at rallies, encouraged cops to rough up suspects and defended White vigilantes. Trump, who escaped military service for “bone spurs,” repeatedly affiliated himself with violent figures, from the war criminals whose sentences he commuted to associates accused of domestic abuse.
:snippity:
Most egregiously, in a repudiation of democracy and the peaceful transfer of power, Republican officials now talk about violence as an acceptable part of our politics. Election workers must now labor under this threatening rhetoric, increasing the concern that the Jan. 6 insurrection was a rehearsal for future coup attempts as Republicans maintain the “big lie” of a stolen 2020 election.
:snippity:
It’s no surprise in our political culture awash with guns and a pro-violence ethic that such chest-thumping and cringeworthy displays of toxic masculinity are rampant. But they are hardly the only consequences.

The Post reports: “Analyzing Education Department data, a Government Accountability Office (GAO) report found a huge jump in K-12 public school ‘hostile behaviors.’ The most alarming statistic — physical attacks with a weapon nearly doubled early in the Trump administration. In a two-year period, from school years 2015-2016 to 2017-2018, attacks with weapons jumped 97 percent, according to the most recent data available. At the same time, hate crimes increased 81 percent and sexual assaults rose 17 percent.”

Trump thrilled his supporters with nonstop bullying, name-calling and racist rhetoric. He cultivated an environment of anger, resentment and White entitlement. It is no great leap to conclude that certain behaviors have became more common, if not normalized, among his millions of cult followers, including young people. The Post reports, “In its examination of hostile behaviors, GAO found that ‘bullying is widespread in schools nationwide,’ hurting 5.2 million students ages 12 to 18, about 20 percent of the school population, in the 2018-2019 school year.”


Once upon a time, Republicans condemned Hollywood for producing violent or desensitizing entertainment. Now, they specialize in propounding their own culture of violence, vigilantism and defiance of societal norms.
:snippity:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... sequences/
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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RVInit
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Re: School related violence

#211

Post by RVInit »

There's a lot of things that need to change. One specifically? Police brutality.
--Colin Kaepernick
W. Kevin Vicklund
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Re: School related violence

#212

Post by W. Kevin Vicklund »

raison de arizona wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:02 pm
Dave from down under wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:42 pm Any evidence that the parents tried to enter Canada?
News reporting indicated that their hideout was halfway between where they started and the border, but I don't believe any conclusions may be drawn from that. Dunno.

In a similar vein, my eyeballs are halfway between my scalp and my feet. They were discovered a few blocks from Belle Isle, but that's still a couple miles to the Tunnel or the Ambassador Bridge. Oxford is maybe 40 miles from the Tunnel. Reporter is obviously not from the area.
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Re: School related violence

#213

Post by raison de arizona »

W. Kevin Vicklund wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:42 pm
raison de arizona wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:02 pm
Dave from down under wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:42 pm Any evidence that the parents tried to enter Canada?
News reporting indicated that their hideout was halfway between where they started and the border, but I don't believe any conclusions may be drawn from that. Dunno.

In a similar vein, my eyeballs are halfway between my scalp and my feet. They were discovered a few blocks from Belle Isle, but that's still a couple miles to the Tunnel or the Ambassador Bridge. Oxford is maybe 40 miles from the Tunnel. Reporter is obviously not from the area.
:lol: thanks for the skinny!
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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Re: School related violence

#214

Post by W. Kevin Vicklund »

raison de arizona wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:44 pm
W. Kevin Vicklund wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:42 pm
raison de arizona wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:02 pm

News reporting indicated that their hideout was halfway between where they started and the border, but I don't believe any conclusions may be drawn from that. Dunno.

In a similar vein, my eyeballs are halfway between my scalp and my feet. They were discovered a few blocks from Belle Isle, but that's still a couple miles to the Tunnel or the Ambassador Bridge. Oxford is maybe 40 miles from the Tunnel. Reporter is obviously not from the area.
:lol: thanks for the skinny!
No problem! I'm intimately familiar with the area. There's a RiverWalk that extends basically from the Ambassador Bridge to Belle Isle, installed over the past 15 years. I was a design engineer (mainly lighting and security) for about a quarter of that system. Some landmarks along that stretch include the Tunnel, Joe Louis Arena, Cobo Center, and the Renaissance Center.
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Re: School related violence

#215

Post by Maybenaut »

raison de arizona wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:31 am
filly wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:39 am I have probably read hundreds of articles about this shooting. IIRC the teacher who found the note took a photo on her phone that shows the "before" of the note. I can't put my hands on it right now but that's what I was reading around the time the parents went on the lam.
That is my firm recollection as well.

I began developing schizophrenic symptoms in my teens, and it was really scary…..
Thanks for sharing your experience. It’s really helpful to hear about these things first hand.
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Re: School related violence

#216

Post by neonzx »

filly wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:39 am I have probably read hundreds of articles about this shooting. IIRC the teacher who found the note took a photo on her phone that shows the "before" of the note. I can't put my hands on it right now but that's what I was reading around the time the parents went on the lam.
I'm late to the party, but yes that is what happened. The teacher took a photo of his drawings with her cellphone prior to Ethan trying to redact --
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Re: School related violence

#217

Post by pipistrelle »

Too early for me to speculate about mental illness. To me the parents are a big part of the story. They seem to have encouraged the worst in him (buying him a gun, lol at him shopping for ammo, and most of all not immediately taking him out of school and to counseling once they'd found out he was doing and saying disturbing things). For those who are parents: In this scenario (minus the gun because presumably you are responsible gun owners): What would you have done if you'd been called in to the school and had this conversation?
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Re: School related violence

#218

Post by sugar magnolia »

neonzx wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:08 pm
filly wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:39 am I have probably read hundreds of articles about this shooting. IIRC the teacher who found the note took a photo on her phone that shows the "before" of the note. I can't put my hands on it right now but that's what I was reading around the time the parents went on the lam.
I'm late to the party, but yes that is what happened. The teacher took a photo of his drawings with her cellphone prior to Ethan trying to redact --
Yes, the drawing and the teacher photographing the drawing have been well-covered in the news. My initial question was specific to the redacting. I still have seen no mention of that other than the Heavy article linked upthread. Any idea what the actual redaction consisted of? Did he just scribble through it? Change the drawing to look like a potato? Or did Heavy conflate "redaction" with his silly explanation of it being for a video game?
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Re: School related violence

#219

Post by pipistrelle »

sugar magnolia wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:18 am
neonzx wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:08 pm
filly wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:39 am I have probably read hundreds of articles about this shooting. IIRC the teacher who found the note took a photo on her phone that shows the "before" of the note. I can't put my hands on it right now but that's what I was reading around the time the parents went on the lam.
I'm late to the party, but yes that is what happened. The teacher took a photo of his drawings with her cellphone prior to Ethan trying to redact --
Yes, the drawing and the teacher photographing the drawing have been well-covered in the news. My initial question was specific to the redacting. I still have seen no mention of that other than the Heavy article linked upthread. Any idea what the actual redaction consisted of? Did he just scribble through it? Change the drawing to look like a potato? Or did Heavy conflate "redaction" with his silly explanation of it being for a video game?
it's in mainstream publications, although it's possible they picked it up without verification.

Prosecutor's Statement Outlines Events Before Michigan ...https://www.nytimes.com › 2021/12/03 › michigan-prose...
4 days ago — 26, 2021, Ethan Crumbley's social media posts reveal photos of a ... Counselor obtained the drawing but the shooter had already altered it.
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Re: School related violence

#220

Post by Phoenix520 »

Interesting stuff, raisin. I saw a video somewhere about a schizophrenic with a service dog who was trained to”greet” any real people in the room on command. When he’s having a hallucination the fist thing he says is greet. If she doesn’t move, he knows they’re not real and he deals accordingly.
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Re: School related violence

#221

Post by raison de arizona »

That’s super cool, what a good dog!
Oxford school shooting: Ethan Crumbley appointed lawyer by court after parents only hired their own
James and Jennifer Crumbley hired high-profile attorneys Shannon Smith and Mariell Lehman to represent themselves but appear to have declined to foot their son’s legal bill

Michigan school shooting suspect Ethan Crumbley has been appointed an attorney by the court after his parents hired their own high-profile legal team but not a lawyer to represent their son on his murder and terrorism charges.

Paulette Michel Loftin, a little known defence attorney based out of Rochester, Detroit, was appointed by court officials on Thursday to represent the 15-year-old alleged mass shooter.

Ms Loftin told the Detroit Free Press she had been appointed at the request of the teenager because he could not afford to hire his own attorney.

Defendants are entitled to a court-appointed attorney, funded by the taxpayer, when they can prove they do not have the funds to pay for their defence themselves.

But, while the suspect’s parents Jennifer and James Crumbley appeared to choose not to foot their son’s legal bill, they took the step to hire two high-powered attorneys to represent themselves before they purportedly went on the run last week.
:snippity:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 71470.html
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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Re: School related violence

#222

Post by W. Kevin Vicklund »

Actual footage from outside the Crumbley home when Ethan used his one call:

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Re: School related violence

#223

Post by raison de arizona »

He also sells bulletproof backpacks.

We pulled our kid out of a school in Brooklyn that had like ten lockdowns in the first half of the year, it is really traumatizing. Our children don't deserve to grow up in a world like this. As The Onion always says, "There's nothing we could do to prevent this, says the only place where this regularly happens."
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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Re: School related violence

#224

Post by Mrich »

I haven't seen this posted yet:
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Re: School related violence

#225

Post by raison de arizona »

Great speech, thanks for posting :thumbsup:

I'm far too cynical to think it will make a difference though :cry:
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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