RVInit wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:51 pm
Another question just popped into my head. So, if a conviction is overturned, is it usually done charge by charge? Or, if there is deemed to be an issue surrounding the drone video would it be just the one charge the video supports or would it be all the charges overturned? Or just the one charge the evidence actually would be used to support? That video didn't capture any of the other activity where he shot other people.
As always, "it depends."
The prosecution would attempt to isolate the error to as few counts as possible. The defense will argue the taint affected as many counts as possible.
RVInit wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:36 pm
I just wound back the PBS video to where the jury came into the room. The judge didn't find the defense argument persuasive that the defense didn't "know" that the version the prosecution had was going to be so devastating. He's suggesting a conviction will be overturned.
The defense is claiming they were given a different version of the unedited video. So, why didn't they object on the day they were all crowded around the screen watching it prior to the judge making the determination about provocation? They had time to react to this bad news. And it's their own fault the unedited video was obtained. The prosecution had no idea the unedited video would be so helpful to them. So, that is on the defense. They could have tried to get the unedited video first, looked at it, and then just shut up about it and hoped the prosecutors never tried to obtain it. It's likely they would not have pursued it because they only became interested when the defense wanted to put Tucker Carlson's version on. That's on them.
So, the final decision by the judge is that the jury has access to the courtroom with the nice TV, they will watch the video and discuss and deliberate all the time they need while in that room alone. They will knock on the door and let the bailiff know when they have finished.
And the judge is basically saying he believes the prosecution is taking a chance on the conviction being overturned.
So, if a conviction is overturned, I guess the defendant walks and can't be tried again? The prosecutors would love to get a second crack at it because on a second trial even if the defendant doesn't testify again, his first testimony comes in and they will be ready with the rebuttal case the judge effectively denied them by requiring rebuttal witnesses to appear in the courtroom within 20 minutes. No way could they get a University representative and Antioch Police Department representative in the Kenosha courtroom in 20 minutes.
Last Thur, Nov 12, when everyone was watching the prosecution's version the drone video, the defense mentioned the difference in video quality. Closing arguments were on Nov 13.
This issue was raised in the presence of the judge. Yet the defense waits several days after closing arguments to file a motion about this issue? They wait until the jury began deliberations to file a motion?
Starting at 1:56:00
Technical failure by the defense is not the prosecuion' responsibility.
Frankly, who the fuck relies on their phone for accurate video evidence in a freaking murder trial?! The defense had time to resolve this issue before closing arguments. This is on them.
"The jungle is no place for a cellist."
From "Take the Money and Run"
RVInit wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:51 pm
Another question just popped into my head. So, if a conviction is overturned, is it usually done charge by charge? Or, if there is deemed to be an issue surrounding the drone video would it be just the one charge the video supports or would it be all the charges overturned? Or just the one charge the evidence actually would be used to support? That video didn't capture any of the other activity where he shot other people.
Edit: I hate my keyboard. I am going shopping tonight. Bet you can all guess what I'm going shopping for.
Pssst. My computer last week. Costco is having holiday sales on computers.
"The jungle is no place for a cellist."
From "Take the Money and Run"
The two videos linked in motion, from our friend Jovan.
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
So, if a conviction is overturned, I guess the defendant walks and can't be tried again?
If the conviction is reversed on grounds that the evidence was insufficient, the defendant walks. If it's reversed on any other ground (incorrect jury instructions, error in admitting evidence, etc.), the case can be re-tried.
The prosecutors would love to get a second crack at it because on a second trial even if the defendant doesn't testify again, his first testimony comes in and they will be ready with the rebuttal case the judge effectively denied them by requiring rebuttal witnesses to appear in the courtroom within 20 minutes. No way could they get a University representative and Antioch Police Department representative in the Kenosha courtroom in 20 minutes.
As I posted upthread, I don't think that rebuttal would have been admissible anyway (impeachment on a collateral matter).
I understand that you can't get blood from a turnip and it costs money to sue someone, especially if you know you won't collect. But...does that judgement follow the defendant? Could it haunt his future employment?
I'm just glad I didn't build my skateboard in seventh grade in Wisconsin, where I could have been sent to prison on the grounds that it could have beheaded somebody if'n I wasn't careful enough. Seventh grade in Wisconsin, I heard, is tough.
Slim Cognito wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:54 pm
I understand that you can't get blood from a turnip and it costs money to sue someone, especially if you know you won't collect. But...does that judgement follow the defendant? Could it haunt his future employment?
Isn't he a 2 millionaire once he gets the bail money back? Although I suppose that will all go to lawyers and jury consultants and their ilk.
I'll bet he could raise another few hundred thousand from the rubes anyway, wait for that then hit him with the suit!
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
As to the drone video the prosecutor has two versions, one of which the judge would not admit because he doesn't understand extrapolation and didn't give the prosecutor enough time to call a witness that was well versed in extrapolation. So, the enhanced version of the video was not admitted into evidence. There is also a degraded version of the same video out in the public, which is the version the defense originally wanted to come into evidence.
I think I would not rely on anything from a twitter account because there is no telling what versions of the videos they are showing. Especially if it's a twitter account for someone who has such an obvious bias in this case as the twitter account in the post above certainly does. How would that person have the actual file from the prosecutor or the defense?
"It actually doesn't take much to be considered a difficult woman. That's why there are so many of us."
I think the skateboard is dangerous. At 4' 11" and 100 pounds, if someone as tall as Huber whacked me in the head with a skateboard it could cause some real damage.
That doesn't mean I think Rittenhouse should have killed Huber with an AR15. Never bring a skateboard to a gun fight was the practical mistake Huber made. Huber was correct to try and stop Rittenhouse, but he didn't realize Rittenhouse had no compunction about firing on a person armed with a skateboard or a plastic bag.
"Mickey Mouse and I grew up together." - Ruthie Tompson, Disney animation checker and scene planner and one of the first women to become a member of the International Photographers Union in 1952.
Slim Cognito wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:54 pmBut...does that judgement follow the defendant?
Generally speaking, yes and no. State laws are different, and in some states judgments do expire (but can be renewed).
Could it haunt his future employment?
...Yes?
In theory, a judgment creditor could try to garnish wages. Even if the employer "whatevs!" and agrees, there will be a fight over that. A fight that ... will require a lawyer. Who costs money.
So the bigger question is, "Who would hire him?" Those disinclined to hire him won't be deterred by garnishment issues; they'll be deterred by the homicide issues. I think the pool of companies will to hire him but for the creditors' attorneys is a very small pool indeed.
I agree with Maybenaut's earlier postings about this defendant's chances of realizing his dreams of becoming a police officer or getting admitted to any medical related program. Most police departments wouldn't touch him with a twelve foot pole. Sure, some backwoods Sheriff's department that is already full of yahoos who love to shoot people maybe, but I think most would be very cautious. There is no way I can see any medical related program accepting him. So, even if he is acquitted, I don't see a smooth path forward for him. If acquitted he will find that he's pretty much only accepted by white supremacist militia types, which will only get him into more trouble. But he'll be a pariah among most decent folk. Even for people who are inclined to feel sorry for him, I doubt when push comes to shove they would feel comfortable trusting his judgment on pretty much anything.
The Antioch Police Department, where he was in some kind of cadet program tweeted almost immediately after he testified about them issuing him a bullet proof vest. They essentially said he was lying, they never issued him or any other cadet a bullet proof vest. So, his friends at that police department are probably fully prepared to cut him loose if he's acquitted and tries to resume his activities with them.
"It actually doesn't take much to be considered a difficult woman. That's why there are so many of us."
Tiredretiredlawyer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:08 pm
I think the skateboard is dangerous. At 4' 11" and 100 pounds, if someone as tall as Huber whacked me in the head with a skateboard it could cause some real damage.
That doesn't mean I think Rittenhouse should have killed Huber with an AR15. Never bring a skateboard to a gun fight was the practical mistake Huber made. Huber was correct to try and stop Rittenhouse, but he didn't realize Rittenhouse had no compunction about firing on a person armed with a skateboard or a plastic bag.
If you watch the video, Huber didn't really whack him in the head with it. He tried to hit him with it while running, but Rittenhouse deflected with his arm. When Rittenhouse is on the ground the video really looks like Huber tried to use the skateboard to hold Rittenhouse down while using his other hand to get his gun away from him. He doesn't full out whack him with it.
"It actually doesn't take much to be considered a difficult woman. That's why there are so many of us."
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
RVInit wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:16 pmI agree with Maybenaut's earlier postings about this defendant's chances of realizing his dreams of becoming a police officer or getting admitted to any medical related program. Most police departments wouldn't touch him with a twelve foot pole. Sure, some backwoods Sheriff's department that is already full of yahoos who love to shoot people maybe, but I think most would be very cautious. There is no way I can see any medical related program accepting him. So, even if he is acquitted, I don't see a smooth path forward for him. If acquitted he will find that he's pretty much only accepted by white supremacist militia types, which will only get him into more trouble. But he'll be a pariah among most decent folk. Even for people who are inclined to feel sorry for him, I doubt when push comes to shove they would feel comfortable trusting his judgment on pretty much anything.
The Antioch Police Department, where he was in some kind of cadet program tweeted almost immediately after he testified about them issuing him a bullet proof vest. They essentially said he was lying, they never issued him or any other cadet a bullet proof vest. So, his friends at that police department are probably fully prepared to cut him loose if he's acquitted and tries to resume his activities with them.
I don’t recall saying that, but I may have, and I don’t disagree.
"Hey! We left this England place because it was bogus, and if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too!" -- Thomas Jefferson
"Mickey Mouse and I grew up together." - Ruthie Tompson, Disney animation checker and scene planner and one of the first women to become a member of the International Photographers Union in 1952.
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
Slim Cognito wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:54 pm
I understand that you can't get blood from a turnip and it costs money to sue someone, especially if you know you won't collect. But...does that judgement follow the defendant? Could it haunt his future employment?
Maybenaut wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:21 pm
I don’t recall saying that, but I may have, and I don’t disagree.
I am realizing that you were commenting more on his prospects in general, which I totally agree with, where my comments were focused specifically on his police and/or medical interests. Sorry about that, that was my mistake!
"It actually doesn't take much to be considered a difficult woman. That's why there are so many of us."
RVInit wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:16 pm
I agree with Maybenaut's earlier postings about this defendant's chances of realizing his dreams of becoming a police officer or getting admitted to any medical related program. Most police departments wouldn't touch him with a twelve foot pole. Sure, some backwoods Sheriff's department that is already full of yahoos who love to shoot people maybe, but I think most would be very cautious. There is no way I can see any medical related program accepting him. So, even if he is acquitted, I don't see a smooth path forward for him. If acquitted he will find that he's pretty much only accepted by white supremacist militia types, which will only get him into more trouble. But he'll be a pariah among most decent folk. Even for people who are inclined to feel sorry for him, I doubt when push comes to shove they would feel comfortable trusting his judgment on pretty much anything.
The Antioch Police Department, where he was in some kind of cadet program tweeted almost immediately after he testified about them issuing him a bullet proof vest. They essentially said he was lying, they never issued him or any other cadet a bullet proof vest. So, his friends at that police department are probably fully prepared to cut him loose if he's acquitted and tries to resume his activities with them.
Going to college won't be practical for several years. He can do online learning, but you can do only so many classes online. He's very easily recognized.
He will never be admitted to a medical program.
If Rittenhouse is acquitted, he won't be free. He'll have moments of being celebrated. But those moments won't keep him busy enough.
Damn, he won't even be working at fast food restaurants or grocery stores. But his GiveSendGo acct will be healthy enough for a while.
"The jungle is no place for a cellist."
From "Take the Money and Run"
5BF0173F-3F74-430F-91CD-9B9A4711AED1.png (499.26 KiB) Viewed 734 times
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
Matt Gaetz released a statement late this evening that if Rittenhouse is acquitted he will look into hiring him for a congressional intern position. Given his RWNJ & pedo scandals: Could it be that Nestle is aging out of the kind of kid Matt really enjoys mentoring? Good Gawd. Intern Kyle in D.C. what. Leadership they send to D.C. from Flori-duh eh?
Matt Gaetz released a statement late this evening that if Rittenhouse is acquitted he will look into hiring him for a congressional intern position. Given his RWNJ & pedo scandals: Could it be that Nestor the now in college unofficially adopted "son"is aging out of the kind of kid Matt really enjoys mentoring? Good Gawd. Intern Kyle in D.C. Wow..What. Leadership they send to D.C. from Flori-duh eh?
last week. Costco is having holiday sales on computers.
Matt Gaetz released a statement late this evening that if Rittenhouse is acquitted he will look into hiring him for a congressional intern position. Given his RWNJ & pedo scandals: Could it be that Nestle is aging out of the kind of kid Matt really enjoys mentoring? Good Gawd. Intern Kyle in D.C. what. Leadership they send to D.C. from Flori-duh eh?