Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

[bob]

It's perfectly possible he had it out as he did on other occasions.

Beyond a reasonable doubt is not beyond all possible doubt. Unreasonable possibilities support unreasonable doubts.

[RVInit]

Sorry, yes, it does show the time frame of the shooting, just not the chase before the shooting, except for the very end of the chase when they were almost at teh cars already. The people scatter as Kyle shoots four shots.

Then he runs around the cars and then comes back around to look at what he has done. And then turns and runs away while he tells his friend "I just shot someone.".

[Dave from down under]

Sorry, yes, it does show the time frame of the shooting, just not the chase before the shooting, except for the very end of the chase when they were almost at teh cars already. The people scatter as Kyle shoots four shots.

Then he runs around the cars and then comes back around to look at what he has done. And then turns and runs away while he tells his friend "I just shot someone.".

To use Anders logic - it is possible that Kyle and his friend are having a competition as too who can shoot the most people.
Kyle bragging that he bagged his first kill..
Of two
Plus winging another one.

[pipistrelle]

But whatever. It's perfectly possible he had it out as he did on other occasions.

Oh FFS!

You deny that it is possible that Kyle is a murderous POS and to that end you want to portray everyone else in the worse possible light to mitigate that he killed two people and wounded maimed a third.

FIFY

[Dave from down under]

Thank you…
Maimed is far more accurate.

[RVInit]

Thank you…
Maimed is far more accurate.

:yeah:

[LM K]

It has been known that Rittenhouse came up against the Ziminskis as he ran onto the lot. Seems likely Ziminski had his gun in his hand; he is seen holding it on other occasions that night and fired it shortly after.

No. That is neither likely or unlikely. You have no info about Ziminki at that time.

I had ice cream today. Is it likely that I'm eating ice cream tonight? After all, ice cream was in my hands earlier AND I ate some.

Not remotely analogous I would say. I mean we do know he must have taken it out at some point to fire it. He was a guy with a long criminal record who is seen discreetly holding a gun (illegal for him to possess as a felon) in his hand at frequent times *that night*. But whatever. It's perfectly possible he had it out as he did on other occasions.

Possible and likely are very different.

Almost everything is possible. A limited number of things are likely.

[RVInit]

What Ziminski was or wasn't doing is completely irrelevant. He wasn't involved at all. His contribution to the Rittenhouse events consisted of Rittenhouse pointing his gun at Ziminski first*, Rosenbaum running around the car to approach Rittenhouse face on**, Rittenhouse turning and running, followed by Rosenbaum, then Ziminski fires a shot into the air***, Rittenhouse turns and shoots Rosenbaum. That is the end of Ziminski's contribution. So who the hell cares what else he did that entire night? A large amount of testimony has come in regarding Ziminsky from militia members that are obviously sympathetic to Rittenhouse. And none of them were able to give any information indicating that Ziminsky did anything other than fire a shot into the air from the far side of the parking lot from where Rittenhouse turned and shot Rosenbaum. I guess given the way the testimony is turning out, Rittenhouse defenders have to start throwing everything they can think of against the wall.

* thanks to the drone video that backfired on the defense.
** as opposed to Rosenbaum ambushing Rittenhouse
*** from across the parking lot where Kyle had just run from, meaning the sound of gunfire wasn't coming from the guy who was several feet behind him

[Uninformed]

Before and during the occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge one of the poots’ talking points was the resentencing of the Hammonds - double jeopardy and all sorts of nonsense. The DA’s office had quite early on issued a “press release” explaining the real situation but the poots just ignored it no matter how many times it was pointed out. Roughly the same can be said about the video of and the events surrounding the death of Lavoy Finicum and how it was continuously mis-portrayed. It seems the misinformation/polarisation apparent then has gone nationwide.

[Dave from down under]

Flat earthers, sov cits, poots and Kyleians.

[andersweinstein]

What Ziminski was or wasn't doing is completely irrelevant. He wasn't involved at all.

This is disputed. The defense theory is that there was some kind of coordinated ambush by both Ziminski and Rosenbaum, although their collusion in this may well have been tacit. Ziminksi did scream "you're not gonna do shit, motherfucker" and fired the first shot behind Rittenhouse as he was being chased. At minimum firing that first shot as Rittenhouse was fleeing is highly significant all by itself. Kid was being chased and somebody fires a gunshot behind him. C'mon now.

His contribution to the Rittenhouse events consisted of Rittenhouse pointing his gun at Ziminski first*, Rosenbaum running around the car to approach Rittenhouse face on**, Rittenhouse turning and running, followed by Rosenbaum, then Ziminski fires a shot into the air***, Rittenhouse turns and shoots Rosenbaum. That is the end of Ziminski's contribution.

After the shooting, I believe Ziminski also goads the crowd to go after Rittenhouse, pointing and shouting and leading them in that direction.

If there were some way of settling the question and one could bet money on it, I would bet my money on the ambush theory as the one overwhelmingly most probable on the totality of evidence. To me this has always seemed kind of a no-brainer. "Hyper-agressive" Rosenbaum had a major beef with the armed men and repeatedly behaved confrontationally to them. Rittenhouse did not act like a vigilante, was never seen to behave aggressively and walked among protestors without incident, cheerfully walked away from confrontation. Rittenhouse walked alone with a fire extinguisher to put out a fire; Rosenbaum came out from behind a car to accost him. Rosenbaum saw an opportunity to make good on his threat and took it. Duh. The dumb kid got himself attacked.

My mind was changed to this from my initial beliefs by evidence I encountered, mostly in the videos, plus a bit of reporting like that in the Washington Post. New evidence could sway me, I hope, but not really seeing anything very persuasive so far. Interested to see what the drone footage shows.

[Dave from down under]

Again you are absolutely correct!

The Ambush theory is the only explanation!

Kyle ambushed the peaceful protesters - killing 2 and maiming 1.

Your posts prove this without a shadow of doubt! Well Done!

[RVInit]

You gotta hand it to rw. They are all on the same message and repeat themselves over and over and over again.

[Dave from down under]

If you have only shit to sell, you need to keep on message and call it organic fertilizer.

[raison de arizona]

[andersweinstein]

It has been known that Rittenhouse came up against the Ziminskis as he ran onto the lot. Seems likely Ziminski had his gun in his hand; he is seen holding it on other occasions that night and fired it shortly after.

No. That is neither likely or unlikely. You have no info about Ziminki at that time.

I had ice cream today. Is it likely that I'm eating ice cream tonight? After all, ice cream was in my hands earlier AND I ate some.

Not remotely analogous I would say. I mean we do know he must have taken it out at some point to fire it. He was a guy with a long criminal record who is seen discreetly holding a gun (illegal for him to possess as a felon) in his hand at frequent times *that night*. But whatever. It's perfectly possible he had it out as he did on other occasions.

[Edit to correct: he apparently has lots of misdemeanors, but no felony convictions. https://journaltimes.com/news/local/cri ... ceef6.html]

[Dave from down under]

But has he killed two people and maimed another?

Oh wait.. that is the coward Kyle...

[Dave from down under]

Not remotely analogous I would say. I mean we do know he must have taken it out at some point to fire it. He was a guy with a long criminal record who is seen discreetly holding a gun (illegal for him to possess as a felon) in his hand at frequent times *that night*. But whatever. It's perfectly possible he had it out as he did on other occasions.

[Edit to correct: he apparently has lots of misdemeanors, but no felony convictions. https://journaltimes.com/news/local/cri ... ceef6.html]

Soooooo.....

Legally in possession of a gun...

unlike Kyle...

Kyle actually kills two people and maims a third...

But in your mind it is Kyle (the criminal and killer) who is the good guy with the gun...

So sick....

[keith]

But whatever. It's perfectly possible he had it out as he did on other occasions.

It is often said that "a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type any given text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare."

That result is "perfectly possible", in fact it is actually a mathematical certainty.

However, the invention of the internet has demonstrated that it is a practical impossibility. It would seem that there just isn't enough randomness in the universe and infinity isn't enough time.

[Dave from down under]

Anders could power the infinite Improbability drive of the Heart of Gold..

[LM K]

What Ziminski was or wasn't doing is completely irrelevant. He wasn't involved at all.

This is disputed. The defense theory is that there was some kind of coordinated ambush by both Ziminski and Rosenbaum, although their collusion in this may well have been tacit. Ziminksi did scream "you're not gonna do shit, motherfucker" and fired the first shot behind Rittenhouse as he was being chased. At minimum firing that first shot as Rittenhouse was fleeing is highly significant all by itself. Kid was being chased and somebody fires a gunshot behind him. C'mon now.

I've asked you several times; what evidence you have that supports this theory about this alleged ambush?

His contribution to the Rittenhouse events consisted of Rittenhouse pointing his gun at Ziminski first*, Rosenbaum running around the car to approach Rittenhouse face on**, Rittenhouse turning and running, followed by Rosenbaum, then Ziminski fires a shot into the air***, Rittenhouse turns and shoots Rosenbaum. That is the end of Ziminski's contribution.

After the shooting, I believe Ziminski also goads the crowd to go after Rittenhouse, pointing and shouting and leading them in that direction.

If there were some way of settling the question and one could bet money on it, I would bet my money on the ambush theory as the one overwhelmingly most probable on the totality of evidence. To me this has always seemed kind of a no-brainer. "Hyper-agressive" Rosenbaum had a major beef with the armed men and repeatedly behaved confrontationally to them. Rittenhouse did not act like a vigilante, was never seen to behave aggressively and walked among protestors without incident, cheerfully walked away from confrontation. Rittenhouse walked alone with a fire extinguisher to put out a fire; Rosenbaum came out from behind a car to accost him. Rosenbaum saw an opportunity to make good on his threat and took it. Duh. The dumb kid got himself attacked.

My mind was changed to this from my initial beliefs by evidence I encountered, mostly in the videos, plus a bit of reporting like that in the Washington Post. New evidence could sway me, I hope, but not really seeing anything very persuasive so far. Interested to see what the drone footage shows.

You are completely living outside of reality. There is no evidence.

Rittenhouse was mouthing off all night. You know that. One of the armed vigilantes was so worried about Rittenhouse's behavior and comments that he glued himself to Rittenhouse.

Again, where's your evidence?

[busterbunker]

Wow, this andersweinstein cat has posted 150 times on this forum, 150 times on this topic alone.

That's kinda creepy. Just saying.

[LM K]

Rosenbaum was absolutely shot before he could touch Rittenhouse's weapon.

I recommend watching both videos.

[sugar magnolia]

Who you gonna believe, your lying eyes or some random rw guy on the internet?

[andersweinstein]

What Ziminski was or wasn't doing is completely irrelevant. He wasn't involved at all.

This is disputed. The defense theory is that there was some kind of coordinated ambush by both Ziminski and Rosenbaum, although their collusion in this may well have been tacit. Ziminksi did scream "you're not gonna do shit, motherfucker" and fired the first shot behind Rittenhouse as he was being chased. At minimum firing that first shot as Rittenhouse was fleeing is highly significant all by itself. Kid was being chased and somebody fires a gunshot behind him. C'mon now.

I've asked you several times; what evidence you have that supports this theory about this alleged ambush?

I summarized this in this very post. Remember the criminal complaint represented Rosenbaum as initiating the confrontation and accosting Kyle. Video showed Kyle walking alone, oblivious with the fire extinguihser. Kyle is seen fleeing him. Now we know for certain he ran behind a parked car and came out after Kyle passed. Rosenbaum had a problem and had explicitly threatened him etc.What is so hard about the idea he made good on his threat?

If some evidence ever emerges that Kyle aggressed, sure I'll consider it. There just hasn't been any. Now they're saying the aerial footage shows this. We'll see.

Rittenhouse was mouthing off all night. You know that.

What?? No evidence he ever mouthed off even once. True when someone yelled "Fuck You" he did say "I love you too, ma'am". Someone in court laughed. That is flip, and he was advised better not to engage. But that is the response of someone who is not taking the bait when aggressed, not someone trying to start a fight.

That the entirety of his reported "mouthing off". Otherwise he is seen just walking away from confrontation as from Yellow Pants guy, or when he gets pepper sprayed by someone in the crowd.

One of the armed vigilantes was so worried about Rittenhouse's behavior and comments that he glued himself to Rittenhouse.

He sheparded Rittenhouse because he seemed green, inexperienced. But he didn't express any worry that Rittenhouse was a danger to attack. He seems more to be backup protecting Rittenhouse from attack. They have said they were going out on the buddy system.

I think it is true his inexperience led to the debacle -- he was stupid enough to wander around for his fantasy of being a medic, get himself separated, and then walk into a hostile crowd all alone and get himself attacked.

Again, you're talking about exactly one comment, that "Thank you, ma'am". That's the only one. You're trying to say that someone who might say "I love you too ma'am" to a hostile person who yells "Fuck you" has shown they are an aggressor eager to start fights and might shoot people.

We have video of Rittenhouse walking among the crowd, and several people don't even look up from their phones as he does so.

Anyway, the epistemological situation seems perfectly symmetrical. Anti-Kyle's beliefs look every bit as unshakeable by evidence to me. Anti-Kyles seize on these slender reeds of support and say "Aha!" and disregard other evidence. It may be confirmation bias on both sides.