Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

[LM K]

Off Topic

Where you are and the protocols are vastly different than my experience involuntary committed. I actually committed myself, but all the paperwork listed involuntary. I met a nurse, did an initial evaluation and was put in a common hospital room. The next day, we watched television , played card, did the "One Flew Over the CooCoos Nest" line up for meds. A group session to discuss anger/hurt/grievances or depression with crayons in workbooks. Then TV. Dukes of Hazard. Day three, first time meeting with an actual doctor and staff. Since.it was Saturday, I was told I would have to stay until Monday. That's not legal. Unless they determined I was a danger to myself or others, which I was not. I went because I was profoundly sad and depressed. Not because I wanted to kill myself.

So I was released because the notations and records showed I was not a danger to myself or others, and it was against the law to keep me past three days just because there were no administrative hearings until Monday. Gathered my belongings in a clear plastic bag and found someone to give me a ride home. Later, I got a bill for $27k. It's a money-making business in some states. And a humiliating experience.

I dont k ow what this victims issues were. But it is possible he may not have gotten the care he needed. Or maybe he didnt need the care.

Just saying.

Your experience is not at all how things should go and typically do go. Typically hospitals only admit those whom are suicidal; I'm surprised there was an available bed for you. But you shouldn't have been treated that way. I'm very sorry that happened to you.

(I'm very surprised that the Ward allowed "One Flew Over the CooCoo''s Nest" to be aired.)

I strongly disagree that hospitalizations are money makers in any state. Nationally there is a severe shortage is psychiatrists. There is also an extremely severe lack of hospital beds for psychiatric patients. Many of these patients are on medicaid.

[LM K]

As I'm watching the trial (taking a break now) I saw a video that made it very obvious that Huber and Grosskreutz we're trying to disarm Rittenhouse. Grosskreutz had his hands on Rittenhouse's weapon.

Rittenhouse knew exactly why people were chasing him. They were chasing him because he shot a man 3-4 times. They were chasing him to stop him.

And why was Rittenhouse calling a friend instead of 911 immediately after shooting Rosenbaum? (No, Anders, it's not because 911 was busy. 911 is reflexive for most.)

[RVInit]

As I'm watching the trial (taking a break now) I saw a video that made it very obvious that Huber and Grosskreutz we're trying to disarm Rittenhouse. Grosskreutz had his hands on Rittenhouse's weapon.

Rittenhouse knew exactly why people were chasing him. They were chasing him because he shot a man 3-4 times. They were chasing him to stop him.

And why was Rittenhouse calling a friend instead of 911 immediately after shooting Rosenbaum? (No, Anders, it's not because 911 was busy. 911 is reflexive for most.)

There is no way I could be convinced that he didn't know exactly why he was being chased once he killed Rosenbaum. No freaking way.

[bob]

There is no way I could be convinced that he didn't know exactly why he was being chased once he killed Rosenbaum.

Would not be surprised if there was a compromise verdict in this regard, i.e., "only" one murder conviction, but no murder conviction for Rosenbaum's killing.

[bob]

Let's just hand the defendant another ground for appeal.

[Dr. Caligari]

Opening statements aren't evidence and can't "open the door" to anything.

No, they're not evidence, but they can definitely open the door.

[raison de arizona]

Doesn't matter, the fix is in by the evil Democrats.


Rittenhouse wouldn't watch the video showing the aftermath of his shooting of Rosenbaum. Ploy for the jury?

[bob]

That out Onion'ed the Onion.

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

[LM K]

Doesn't matter, the fix is in by the evil Democrats.


Rittenhouse wouldn't watch the video showing the aftermath of his shooting of Rosenbaum. Ploy for the jury?

In shocking news, adult members of an extended family in the same community have ... jobs ....

[Dave from down under]

Obviously not MAGAs Qanons Poots - because jobs..

[Gregg]

Not to but FWIW the prosecution did refer to Rittenhouse as an "active shooter" during yesterday's festivities.

Body Ventilation Therapist

[andersweinstein]

As a juror, I find that video not to be convincing that Rittenhouse was just some innocent that got chased for no reason. Early in the video Rosenbaum is clearly minding his own business. He seems to be walking normally, and he does not "give chase" until after Rittenhouse has clearly already chased other people. That much is clear from the video, Rittenhouse seems to be giving chase to others before anyone chased him. It will be interesting to see how many of those other people testify in court as to words that were spoken and what caused people to start chasing Rittenhouse in the beginning. I believe I clearly understand why people chased him after he shot his first victim (yeah, I'm using that word), especially since he turned tail and ran after shooting him. They more than likely believed they could disarm a gunman who had just shot someone dead. As for Rosenbaum chasing Rittenhouse, that clearly happens after Rittenhouse is already apparently "engaging", chasing other people. It's clear to me from that footage that Rosenbaum appears to be minding his own business up to the point where there are people running and chasing and one of them has a gun.

Interesting. The prosecutor hadn't been claiming that. He'd been claiming the video shows Rittenhouse following and chasing down *Rosenbaum*. He also suggested it showed Rittenhouse initiated the confrontation between them. So you have come up with a third interpretation which doesn't seem to be the one being pushed by prosecution.

Me, I just think the video is inconclusive as I expected. It's not some bombshell proof of anything. It's fully consistent with the defense ambush theory. For one segment it could be that Rittenhouse was chasing Rosenbaum as the prosecutor suggests. But it's murky what's going on. And absolutely nothing in the video shows who initiated the confrontation.

It looks to me like the prosecutor's interpretation has this problem: Rosenbaum veers off to go between parked cars while Rittenhouse continues running past them straight along the sidewalk. If Rittenhouse was chasing he could have followed Rosenbaum. If Rosenbaum wanted to evade Rittenhouse he could have just stayed in his hiding place. Instead Rosenbaum actively runs *back* to engage the passing Rittenhouse from behind. So, whatever is going on, we can see Rosenbaum chose to make a move that reduced the distance between them.

In the criminal complaint, eyewitness Richie McGinnis indicated Rosenbaum was the one who moved to get closer and tried to "engage" Rittenhouse.

[Dave from down under]

And Kyle pulled the trigger four times..

A double double tap in best Call-of-duty style.

Perhaps he thought himself in a Purge movie..

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

A taped interview of Rittenhouse played for the jury shows Rittenhouse, after being asked about what kind of weaponry he had, stating his weapon was "lethal" only. Very telling to me.

I lean towards Rittenhouse being convicted but am keeping an open mind about the evidence, playing juror in effect. The defense counsel who gave the opening is doing an excellent job. His cross of the detective was superb.

[RVInit]

I agree that the defense attorney is going a good job, but the prosecutor is also doing a great job on re-direct, clearing up the issues the defense brought up.

I think that interview with Rittenhouse is not helpful to him, especially because he mentions more than one time that the people on the roof were there "to protect me" - presumably while he was doing his do-gooding "medic" work. OK, so why didn't any of those people kill Rosenbaum? If they were there to protect Rittenhouse and they never took a shot, they must not have thought Rittenhouse's life was in any danger. They were his friends, his comrades, were there to "protect him" and yet not one of them took a shot. That is going to be hammered on by the prosecutor in closing argument.

Also, his friend's testimony yesterday doesn't help him at all. He was trying to pass himself off as being there in order to provide "medic services". But the friend's testimony tells a different story - their main interest was in taking their guns out to Kenosha. Rittenhouse started collecting bandaids and other "medical" items from his friend's house, just whatever they happened to have. He didn't have an actual medical kit of any kind. He didn't say we need to stop at a store and get additional first aid items that weren't available at the friend's house. That doesn't really come across as being a serious attempt to provide first aid as a motivation for being there with his big bad gun. It's more like an afterthought, gathering up bandaids and whatnot from his friend's house.

[filly]

No comment about the dismissed juror?

[RVInit]

No comment about the dismissed juror?

I don't know any of the details of the dismissed juror, does anyone else know? I had meetings today and had to come back later and watch video, I heard the judge mention that he had dismissed the juror but if there was any discussion before he dismissed the juror I am not aware of it. I am curious about that.

Edit: I just googled it. Wow. Yeah, that juror needed to go. For anyone who doesn't want to look it up, the juror made a joke about Jacob Blake that sounded pretty much like a joke a typical white supremacist would make. Good to get rid of that one. Apparently the jurors are being escorted to their vehicles at the end of the day, and he made that joke to the officer that escorted him to his car. An older, retired white man.

[RVInit]

LOL, the Daily Caller guy is having problems in his testimony. He's clearly wanting to put a rwnj spin on everything and the prosecutor is following up with detailed questions forcing him to admit he never felt threatened enough to arm himself with any kind of a weapon, and that kind of thing. He's trying to frame these events the way rwnj media (such as the Daily Caller) frames those events. Not getting away with it. I bet he and the defense attorneys will be yapping it up and they will be eliciting all kinds of nonsense from him. Great. /s

[pipistrelle]

No comment about the dismissed juror?

I don't know any of the details of the dismissed juror, does anyone else know? I had meetings today and had to come back later and watch video, I heard the judge mention that he had dismissed the juror but if there was any discussion before he dismissed the juror I am not aware of it. I am curious about that.

Edit: I just googled it. Wow. Yeah, that juror needed to go. For anyone who doesn't want to look it up, the juror made a joke about Jacob Blake that sounded pretty much like a joke a typical white supremacist would make. Good to get rid of that one. Apparently the jurors are being escorted to their vehicles at the end of the day, and he made that joke to the officer that escorted him to his car. An older, retired white man.

"My feelings is, it was nothing to do with the case. It was nothing to do with Kyle and his charges," the juror told the judge.

Kyle? Like they’re buddies?

[raison de arizona]

It's possible Kyrsten Sinema is solely sponsoring CourtTV locally. Literally every commercial in the break was the same one from her. She's an independent voice leading on infrastructure and bringing jobs to Arizona, and we should thank her.

Daily Caller dude admitted running around holding his phone out like he was taping something after taking a picture, didn't he? Something is wrong with that guy.

Stunning on the juror dismissal, but I suppose that is what you get on the jury when you compress the selection that much?

[andersweinstein]

I think that interview with Rittenhouse is not helpful to him, especially because he mentions more than one time that the people on the roof were there "to protect me" - presumably while he was doing his do-gooding "medic" work. OK, so why didn't any of those people kill Rosenbaum? If they were there to protect Rittenhouse and they never took a shot, they must not have thought Rittenhouse's life was in any danger. They were his friends, his comrades, were there to "protect him" and yet not one of them took a shot. That is going to be hammered on by the prosecutor in closing argument.

This misunderstands the geography. The encounter with Rosenbaum took place about three blocks south of the original location, on the other side of a line the police had established at 60th st. The people on the roof did not see it.

Here is a map once posted by the defense fund. Unfortunately the original location is not highlighted on this map, but it was a Car Source mechanic shop on the SW corner of 59th and Sheridan, so north of the line the police established with armored vehicles. Rittenhouse had wandered south from that location looking for people needing first aid, and then got separated from his companion Ryan Balch, and was prevented by police from returning north across that police line. He got sent by a phone call to go to the other property. According to Dominic Black's testimony he (who was on the roof) did not know Rittenhouse had been separated from Balch. So the people who sent him there may have thought Rittenhouse still had a backup with him.

After the shooting he ran back north toward the police line. Shootings 2 and 3 took place on Sheridan Rd between 61st and 60th, and then he continued to the police line.

[raison de arizona]

Still doesn't look like an ambush to me.

A bit reactionary.

[LM K]

I put the image in a spoiler just to save space for scrolling.

Thank you for the image, Anders. It's helpful. I mean no disrespect with shortening the space

I think that interview with Rittenhouse is not helpful to him, especially because he mentions more than one time that the people on the roof were there "to protect me" - presumably while he was doing his do-gooding "medic" work. OK, so why didn't any of those people kill Rosenbaum? If they were there to protect Rittenhouse and they never took a shot, they must not have thought Rittenhouse's life was in any danger. They were his friends, his comrades, were there to "protect him" and yet not one of them took a shot. That is going to be hammered on by the prosecutor in closing argument.

This misunderstands the geography. The encounter with Rosenbaum took place about three blocks south of the original location, on the other side of a line the police had established at 60th st. The people on the roof did not see it.

Here is a map once posted by the defense fund. Unfortunately the original location is not highlighted on this map, but it was a Car Source mechanic shop on the SW corner of 59th and Sheridan, so north of the line the police established with armored vehicles. Rittenhouse had wandered south from that location looking for people needing first aid, and then got separated from his companion Ryan Balch, and was prevented by police from returning north across that police line. He got sent by a phone call to go to the other property. According to Dominic Black's testimony he (who was on the roof) did not know Rittenhouse had been separated from Balch. So the people who sent him there may have thought Rittenhouse still had a backup with him.

After the shooting he ran back north toward the police line. Shootings 2 and 3 took place on Sheridan Rd between 61st and 60th, and then he continued to the police line.

► Show Spoiler

1. The interview speaks to Rittenhouse's perception of his role as a wanna-be medic and his perceived role as "one of them". It speaks to Rittenhouse's psychology.

2. Did any of the armed men say, in police interviews, that they were protecting Rittenhouse?

2. So Rittenhouse was wandering around and then received a call from someone "sending" him to a specific location? Who called Rittenhouse? Is my understanding of your comment correct?

3. How was Black related to Rittenhouse? Did they meet that night? Did Black have Rittenhouse's phone number? Did Black call Rittenhouse to request Rittenhouse's assistance?

You're assuming a lot about what strangers thought about other strangers.

Your strongly asserted claim that Rosenbaum was going to ambush Rittenhouse is 100% unsupported by evidence. Rosenbaum ran towards cars when nearby gunfire was heard and the entire crowd was running. A lot of people were running in the same direction as Rittenhouse and Rosenbaum. Ya know ... like the reporter.

Why do you ignore that a large group of people fled the area after nearby gunfire? Why do you ignore that a large group of people ran in the direction of the cars because they heard nearby gunfire? Why do I say large? The defense just said it

So Anders; where is the evidence that Rosenbaum intended to ambush Rittenhouse, esp when he was running behind Rittenhouse? How do you "ambush" someone in front of you?

[LM K]

Still doesn't look like an ambush to me.

A bit reactionary.

This judge just can't keep up.