The Media are the Goddam Problem

[New Turtle]

The timing just makes it "funnier."

If they were playing the University of Houston Cougars they would have said they eat cats. Probably.

Race here in the deep south is complicated. Most white people are polite and cordial to Blacks - whether friends, co-workers or strangers just out and about. Where the problem lies is when they have to think about systemic racism. They consider themselves not racist because they don't use the N word, they don't make racist jokes (mostly), they don't beat up black people.

But just try to talk about white privilege. They equate it with economic status. There's an element of that, yes. But they honestly just don't see that they have never experienced some negative things *simply* because of their skin color. There's a lot of conditioning to ascribe people expressing unfairness as "playing the race card." It's shorthand on both sides.

But it's not an issue that can be expressed in just a few words. People have poor history education. Buzz words work. White people too often think everything is fair now that civil rights have passed, and believe that other people experience the world they same way they do. For example - voting.

Voting - easy peasy. Just take your license to the polling place and vote. Absolutely zero awareness that not everyone: can get off work. Has child care. Has a license. Has a car. Has access to a printer to get the required info for an absentee application.

These folks have all those things and so think everyone else has no barriers to those things, too. I mean, we're all equal, right?

I lived in Birmingham/Tuscaloosa for a year or 2, they still have some sundown towns once you get far enough from the interstate.

[Suranis]

Voting - easy peasy. Just take your license to the polling place and vote. Absolutely zero awareness that not everyone: can get off work. Has child care. Has a license. Has a car. Has access to a printer to get the required info for an absentee application

Even I know that's not just a "Black" problem in the US of A. So people who say that's an example of "White Privilege" will be told, quite rightly, to eff off.

[RVInit]

Voting - easy peasy. Just take your license to the polling place and vote. Absolutely zero awareness that not everyone: can get off work. Has child care. Has a license. Has a car. Has access to a printer to get the required info for an absentee application

Even I know that's not just a "Black" problem in the US of A. So people who say that's an example of "White Privilege" will be told, quite rightly, to eff off.

Significantly more Black and Hispanic Americans than white Americans live below the poverty line. Significantly more Black/Hispanic Americans than white Americans do not have access to a car or easy transportation. Same for home computers and access to the internet, which, in today's world shuts you out of just about everything.

In Florida all the DMV's were closed after Obama was elected and new ones were opened. The new ones are conveniently located in the wealthiest areas of every county in Florida, and were strategically placed so public transportation to get to those DMV's is impossible, unless you want to walk 15 or more miles from the nearest bus stop to the DMV. Also after Obama was elected, all non-license state issued ID cards were immediately expired and the new ones have special watermarks so the older expired ones cannot be used as proper state issued ID, even though they were proper state issued ID.

Assuming you manage to get to the DMV, in order to get a state issued ID so you can vote you have to have the following paperwork (new "Voter ID" laws that were passed after Obama was elected)

Birth Certificate (good luck getting that if you don't have a computer or internet access)
Social Security Card with a name that matches that on your birth certificate
If you are married and took you spouse's last name you need to have your marriage license. Good luck getting it if you weren't married locally, don't have easy transportation or don't have a home computer with internet access.
Two forms of proof of address and the name has to match exactly that on the birth certificate, social security card or you can provide a marriage certificate. Also, if married, and if most bills are in one spouse's name, good luck on that one too. Getting bills put in a different name so that both spouses have at least two bills that have the exact address and the exact name that matches perfectly all your other documentation provides more fun hoops to jump through.


This is why Florida is no longer a purple state. But there's no such thing as white privilege.

[Suranis]

Voting - easy peasy. Just take your license to the polling place and vote. Absolutely zero awareness that not everyone: can get off work. Has child care. Has a license. Has a car. Has access to a printer to get the required info for an absentee application

Even I know that's not just a "Black" problem in the US of A. So people who say that's an example of "White Privilege" will be told, quite rightly, to eff off.

Significantly more Black and Hispanic Americans than white Americans live below the poverty line.



This is why Florida is no longer a purple state. But there's no such thing as white privilege.

This is where percentages are misleading. Taking the numbers from https://www.apa.org/topics/socioeconomi ... s-children and cross referencing from population from https://www.statista.com/statistics/183 ... ince-2000/

Whites 252.07 million with 8.2% living in poverty = 20.70 Million.

Blacks 45.4 million with 19.5% living in poverty = 8.53 Million.

Alaskan or Native Indian 4.49 Mill with 26.8% Poverty = 1.18 Million.

My comment stands.

[Frater I*I]

My comment stands.

RVInit, lives in the state you are commenting about. She has already explained the State ID getting "expired" issue in her state before [whether here or OldBow, may Cthulhu rest it's soul], so I will trust her eval of her state over yours any time, especially since you don't live in this country Suranis.

Now I do appreciate you're larger picture at ort politics as an outsider, but those of us who live in the SE US know far better the machination of voter suppression than you will get from a google search...

[sugar magnolia]

My comment stands.

RVInit, lives in the state you are commenting about. She has already explained the State ID getting "expired" issue in her state before [whether here or OldBow, may Cthulhu rest it's soul], so I will trust her eval of her state over yours any time, especially since you don't live in this country Suranis.

Now I do appreciate you're larger picture at ort politics as an outsider, but those of us who live in the SE US know far better the machination of voter suppression than you will get from a google search...

Not to mention the fact that the comparison of the demographics of Florida, which RV was speaking to SPECIFICALLY, to total US demographics is stupid. Florida is right at 50% white, but the poverty level of whites is about half that of other races.

[Suranis]

I was talking about "white Privalige" which is a pan us concept. And ly point was that if you tell someone hwho is white and poor that they have white privilidge you will be told to get effed.

Anyway, I actually had a look at poverty statistics in Florida, and its not the same as half the white people are poor as anyone else. But its freaking hard to get clear numbers.

https://www.floridapolicy.org/posts/mor ... erty-level

Florida Sees Small Improvements in Rate of Poverty and Child Poverty, But Rates Remain Higher Than Before the Great Recession

The share of Floridians living below the poverty threshold decreased from 14 percent in 2017 to 13.6 percent in 2018. When compared to pre-recession levels, however, Florida’s poverty rate has increased from 12.1 percent to 13.6 percent.

Florida’s rate of child poverty improved slightly between 2017 and 2018, from 20 percent to 19 percent. Still, there was a greater share of children living in poverty in 2018 (20 percent) than in 2007 (16 percent). There were roughly 145,000 more children living in poverty in 2018 than there were in 2007. Additionally, Florida’s rate of child poverty still remains higher than the national average, which is 18 percent.

Census Data Show Major Disparities in Median Income Along Racial and Ethnic Lines

Despite small increases in year-to-year data for median household income in Florida, it remains below pre-Recession levels. Additionally, there are significant disparities along racial and ethnic lines. Median income was $41,416 for Black households and $49,903 for Latino households in 2018. This is much lower than the median income of $59,004 for white, non-Hispanic households.

The most recent economic data for the state show that Florida has added jobs consistently since 2011. However, the data on median household income noted above, coupled with data showing that wages have stagnated, paint a more troubling picture of Florida’s economy. Economic opportunity continues to be out of reach for many Floridians who have not benefited from economic growth over the past decade.

Additionally, Florida is one of only five states with a Gini index score higher than the national average. The Gini index is a standard economic measure of income inequality.

Ah looking at another website I see what you mean by "twice as many." Its not the number of people, its poverty rate

https://www.welfareinfo.org/poverty-rate/florida/

But, again, the poverty rates in Florida kind of track with the rest of the country. And according this website it still means that a lot more white people are below the poverty line in Florida. So, Ya, those whites will get the stick of these restrictions based on what that article is talking about. To out it in context, for every 2 Black People, rich or poor, there is one White person below the poverty line in Florida. And i bet they are loving their White privilege.

Whites 9.7% of 12.3 million people
Blacks 18% of 3.2 million people
Native 19.9% of 93 thousand people
Hispanic 15% of 6.1 million people

The numbers just don't agree with the whole "this is White privilege targetting Blacks in Florida" crap. Its targeting poor people in general.

Besides. The whole thing about "Oh you don't have any race specific situations" does not change the fact that they will have other race specific interactions that are specific to white people and are just as bad, or be discriminated against for where they are from in Florida, or whatever.

Edit I found the Hispanic numbers reading down the list. There's about 300k less Hispanics below the poverty line, but the numbers are more comparable. But, again, by itself the numbers make a bit of a nonsense of the whole "White Privilege" notion.

Now of course there's stuff like only having 3 polling booths in Black districts and tons in white districts which do indicate a voting bias towards Whites. But there's a lot of Whites who are not able to get IDs becasue of poverty.

[Rolodex]

I was talking about "white Privalige" which is a pan us concept. And ly point was that if you tell someone hwho is white and poor that they have white privilidge you will be told to get effed.

...and there it is (although I'm not sure what a "pan us concept" is). People like this pooh-pooh "white privilege" as a thing. It just shows a real ignorance. Again, they equate it to economic position (I was poor! I pulled myself out of that! So can Black people! they're just lazy and want free stuff" - is exactly the stuff I see on Alabama chat boards) .But...were you poor AND Black? A poor white person just can NOT say they have the same experience as a poor Black person. It's simply impossible. It's like a sighted person closing their eyes and saying they know how a blind person lives.

I think maybe the word "privilege" confuses people. I personally wish there was a better short hand word, because it sounds like something that it really isn't. White fragility is real; they just can't face that there's any advantage in being white, esp if you're economically disadvantaged.

A few years ago, Alabama shut down some offices where you can get an ID or drivers license. But only in certain counties. And those counties were all vast majority Black populations. Yes, also impoverished. So tell me that's not targeting blacks - there are plenty of poor majority white counties in Alabama whose offices were not closed.

There was such an outcry that they opened them back up (albeit with shorter hours and fewer days).

[RVInit]

I apologize for taking this thread down an off-topic path, I originally was meaning to respond to a post, but somehow this got all out of hand. I will just leave this here, and maybe look for somewhere else to post this that might be more appropriate.

I will admit that I can get triggered by this because what I saw happen in Florida after Obama's election really makes my blood boil. I was so proud to vote for Barack Obama, and voted for him twice, and miss him terribly. Florida's legislature should be ashamed of themselves, there is no way that the reaction and new laws that have been passed here are not just simply outright racism. Yes, poor white folks have been caught up in it as well, but the legislature found ways to impact Black Floridians at a much higher rate, mainly because poor white and poor Black people in Florida do not generally live in the same neighborhoods. Removing services like bus lines, DMV offices, and other types of services from very specific locations is how they have managed to harm poor Black folks much more than poor white folks.

Off Topic

Florida's white poor do not tend to live in the same neighborhoods as Florida's Black poor. After Obama was elected and Florida went on a rampage against Black folk here I used to have actual maps of the bus lines, neighborhoods where poverty level Black people make up 80% or more of the population as well as neighborhoods were white people make up 80% or more of the population. Even white poor fare better than Black poor in terms of having access to a bus line, library where they can access a computer, and other such things. There is no doubt that it sucks to be any race of poor, but it's worse to be Black/Hispanic poor than white poor, particularly in Florida. That may not be true in other places.

The Palm Beach Post is widely recognized for excellence in investigative journalism. There are other highly regarded news organizations in Florida where you can find similar information regarding the disparity between Black and white in Florida. Both fare quite poorly, especially since Rick Scott and Ron DeSantis came along, and the election of Barack Obama cause a real backlash.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/new ... 878308007/

In DeSantis' Florida, Black residents sicker, poorer, less educated. It's getting worse.
On a broad range of issues — financial, political, social — Black Floridians still lag behind white Floridians and in many areas the gap has grown.

Wayne Washington
Palm Beach Post


The reasons cover a wide area:

• Politically, Black Floridians can only find a handful of U.S. House members who look like them — almost exactly as it was a decade ago.
  Black health outcomes still lag behind white health outcomes, and, in many cases, the gap is widening.
  Florida's public university system, often a pathway to middle- and upper-income job status, had a lower number of Black students enrolled in 2022 than it did in 2010.
  And despite accounting for only 17% of the state population, Black inmates accounted for more than 47% of those incarcerated in the state prison system, data from the state Department of Corrections shows.

A report from the Florida Department of Health found that, from 2018 to 2020, the death rate from heart disease was 285 per 100,000 people among white Floridians aged 35 and older. For Black Floridians in that age group, it was 338 per 100,000, 18.6% higher.

The same report showed that stroke death rates show an even bigger gap. The stroke death rate for white Floridians from 2018 to 2020 was 76 per 100,000 people aged 35 and older. For black Floridians, the rate was 120 per 100,000, almost 58% higher.

A white paper written for the state Health Department examined infant mortality rates from 2007 to 2018 and found enormous gaps between white and Black Floridians. The infant mortality rate for white Floridians was 5.19 per 1,000 live births in 2007. For Black Floridians, the 2007 rate was 13.36 per 1,000 live births.


Guzman said resources are tied to better health care outcomes. "You can't have someone be healthy if they don't have running water," she said. "People aren't going to be able to buy a bassinet for their baby if they don't have a place to stay."


U.S. Census Bureau figures show that, in 2022, the household income of Black Floridians was at $48,998 — 30% less than the household income of white Floridians.

Unsurprisingly, the home ownership rates of Black Floridians lag far behind those of white Floridians. A 2022 report from the National Association of Realtors found that the white homeownership rate in Florida was 75%. For Black Floridians, it was 49%.