The rise of Christian Nationalism

[p0rtia]

[Resume18]

Only in America do you get to use religion to justify your self-serving greed.

They're just doing what other religious leaders have done for millennia around the entire globe.

Pretty much.

[AndyinPA]

Uh, if I remember correctly, they consider that they worship the same god.

[northland10]

Only in America do you get to use religion to justify your self-serving greed.

Apparently, you have not heard of the Borgias.

[northland10]

Churches are losing members right now. Positions like this are more likely to drive folks away from Christianity than draw them in. They're the MAGA minority of Christianity.

In other words, these "Christians" give Christians a bad name.

I have been told other Christians need to call them out, but when we do, nobody listens. They listen to what the media and the loudmouths say. Too, also, we are too busy with things like feeding the hungry and comforting the afflicted.

I'm pretty sure my denomination would be outlawed by the un-Christian power seekers who call themselves followers of Christ.

[Frater I*I]

Only in America do you get to use religion to justify your self-serving greed.

Apparently, you have not heard of the Borgias.

He's blunt, but has a point...

Although the de' Medici would eventually weasel their way into the papacy...

[Rolodex]

Churches are losing members right now. Positions like this are more likely to drive folks away from Christianity than draw them in. They're the MAGA minority of Christianity.

In other words, these "Christians" give Christians a bad name.

I have been told other Christians need to call them out, but when we do, nobody listens. They listen to what the media and the loudmouths say. Too, also, we are too busy with things like feeding the hungry and comforting the afflicted.

I'm pretty sure my denomination would be outlawed by the un-Christian power seekers who call themselves followers of Christ.

Same. And our denomination lost about 25% of its members after the official change regarding LGBTQ+ folks. Now that we "officially" "allow" out gay clergy and weddings in churches, local congregations (like mine, unfortunately) have taken the opportunity to exercise their rights to continue harming and discriminating. The SE US lost the most churches/members, but we had the most to start with. I suspect people I share a pew with are Christian Nationalists. I do have to say I was glad to notice that when we got our new pastor last year, when the flags (US and Christian) were taken out of the sanctuary for programming purposes, they did not come back in.

In his sermon last week (he's doing a series about loving others) he said he had read but almost didn't mention the poem on the Statue of Liberty for fear of being "political." Really sad when you can't just quote the aspirational poem everyone knows from the most recognized and revered icons in the country. CNs hate when people welcome "illegals."

[zekeb]

It's all about the Bible for them. The inerrant Bible that is filled with contradictions. Perhaps they should look at the Ten Commandments, particularly the last 6 or 7 commandments, depending on which set they forget about following. Imagine what life would be like if everyone loved their neighbor, regardless of race, color, or creed.

[Rolodex]

Yep. It's about the Bible. Not about what Jesus actually taught. My denomination does not require inerrency or literal understanding, although there are plenty of member who do have those beliefs (I honestly wonder why they're in this denomination; I'm in the South - there are literally 2 churches on every single corner. One of them (probably most) will fit their beliefs better.

[northland10]

It's all about the Bible for them. The inerrant Bible that is filled with contradictions. Perhaps they should look at the Ten Commandments, particularly the last 6 or 7 commandments, depending on which set they forget about following. Imagine what life would be like if everyone loved their neighbor, regardless of race, color, or creed.

In my world, you often hear, "we don't take the Bible literally, we take it seriously."

To take the Bible as literal (despite its obvious contradictions and dependent on a simple English text) is to understand it only as a rule book by a God who rules from afar. It places the God in our box instead of bringing us to better understand God and God's relationship with us (and creation) which is still far beyond our knowing. CN's cannot accept that we still see through the mirror darkly.

They put God in their image. They forget as said in Matthew:

Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.” (NIV)

Science and Christianity can walk together since for some of us Christians, science allows us to discover a glimpse of a creation. We can walk to understanding a greater fullness than simple magic.

I suppose I should get off my soapbox/pulpit now.

[MN-Skeptic]

Science and Christianity can walk together since for some of us Christians, science allows us to discover a glimpse of a creation. We can walk to understanding a greater fullness than simple magic.

My parents were definitely Christian and definitely Republican. That said, they were also pro-evolution and pro-choice, so that's what I grew up with. I always figured that the creation story in the Bible was just a way of conveying the fact that God created the universe with sketchy details based on what ancient people could understand - sort of like telling your children that the stork brings babies. However, God wrote the truth in every single atom, every piece of light, etc. and as we grow in our knowledge, we will discover the reality of God's creation. To insist that the earth was created in 6 days is to continue to believe that the stork brings babies.

[zekeb]

I'm a Creationist. I believe God created the universe in the beginning knew how it would evolve. If people would stop thinking that Jesus micromanages every little aspect of our world it would be much easier to understand the why and the wherefore.

[northland10]

I'm a Creationist. I believe God created the universe in the beginning knew how it would evolve. If people would stop thinking that Jesus micromanages every little aspect of our world it would be much easier to understand the why and the wherefore.

[MN-Skeptic]

I'm a Creationist. I believe God created the universe in the beginning knew how it would evolve. If people would stop thinking that Jesus micromanages every little aspect of our world it would be much easier to understand the why and the wherefore.

[Sam the Centipede]

I'm a Creationist. I believe God created the universe in the beginning knew how it would evolve. If people would stop thinking that Jesus micromanages every little aspect of our world it would be much easier to understand the why and the wherefore.

But why believe any of that? The universe exists, why is not important, it is enough to acknowledge the fact. It certainly wasn't created by a being similar to us or comprehensible by us. None of the gods of any brand of Abrahamic or other religions actively monitor and intervene in our world, our human race … or if they do, they are beyond contempt for their promotion of suffering and misery.

Whereas the specific case of Christianity being the history and mythology of some Middle Eastern peoples that was idiosyncratically adopted and promoted by the Roman Empire (possibly a factor in its collapse?) combined with the human love of stories and in-group/out-group discriminators explains much.

Maybe if the Romans had experienced different influences we'd be Zoroastrians?! Learning about Ahura Mazda in the Avesta instead of Yahweh in the Pentateuch?

It baffles me that theologians (never the brightest bunnies!) don't consider the possibility that the reason for the apparent indifference of their god(s) of choice might be that they have they died and the universe ticks on, unsupervised. It would fit the facts neatly!

However, in the final analysis, when people do good deeds, when they make fine music, when they feed, care and comfort others, it matters not whether the spring of their kindness is moral philosophy, supernatural beliefs, good parenting, or a kind heart.

[zekeb]

Believe or don't believe. If you choose to believe, believe something that science has not disproved. Believe in something that might answer why we are here as much as how we got here. Don't believe that you are the superior creation and others who are not created exactly like you are inferior and need to be stomped on.

[johnpcapitalist]

Kandiss Taylor, a MAGA nutjob so far out that she only got 3.4% of the vote in the Republican primary for governor in 2022, is back at it again:

In Kandiss Taylor’s Christian Nation, ‘I Don’t Have to Give You Your Freedom of Religion’


During the most recent episode of her “Jesus, Guns, and Babies” program, which airs on the network owned by virulently antisemitic conspiracy theorist Stew Peters, Christian nationalist GOP activist Kandiss Taylor claimed that the Christian church is supposed to be running the government and therefore non-Christians are not entitled to freedom of religion.

Taylor is flat-earth conspiracy theorist who unsuccessfully ran for governor of Georgia in 2022 and despite her paltry showing in the Republican primary, she steadfastly refused to accept that she had lost. In 2023, Taylor became a Georgia GOP district chair and started voicing increasingly radical views, even going so far as to call for the public execution of those who oppose her Christian nationalist worldview.

Those radical views were on display during her recent program as she insisted that the Constitution was founded on common law and that common law is rooted in the Bible, meaning that the United States “was founded on Jesus Christ.”

“The idea behind the whole document was that the church runs the state,” Taylor asserted. “The church is we the people. We are the church … and so we run the state. But the state, the government, has no control over the church.”

“And everybody is like, ‘Then you gotta let Satanists come in and you gotta let witches come in, and you’ve gotta let Muslims and Hindus,'” she continued. “No. No, we don’t. No, we don’t because America is founded on God almighty, Creator God, Yahweh, Elohim. That is what we’re founded on and I don’t have to honor your religion. I don’t have to give you freedom of religion. Freedom of religion is there for us to worship Jesus. It’s not for you to come force anything else upon me.”

“So we have that all wrong,” Taylor declared. “We’ve had tolerance. We’ve been politically correct. And at what point are we going to say, ‘No, we’re not going to be’? You can do whatever you want to the comfort of your home. You can do whatever you want to, but don’t come into my government and bring any of that trash in there.”

“We shouldn’t be electing anyone in government—local, state or federal—that is not a Christian,” Taylor concluded.

Once again, saying the quiet parts out loud.

[pipistrelle]

She's the Babies, Guns and Jesus person, IIRC. Which I may not.

[Frater I*I]

She's the Babies, Guns and Jesus person, IIRC. Which I may not.

Yep that's her, a particular blight on the state I live in....

[Rolodex]

Yikes. Maybe her saying all that will have some folks thinking twice. So many people just hear the tl;dr of things and just hear "she's a Christian so she has our values" (if they are Christians). They may not understand that she has these really weird ideas and is not just a mainstream Christian.

Back in 2021, there was a dust up in Portland (OR) connected to a Christian concert. The singer was Sean Faucht who is connected with the New Apostolic Reformation and a CN. They had Proud Boys as "security" and there was violence. Here's an article about the event. https://www.wweek.com/news/city/2021/08 ... -the-city/

So, I was with some friends right after this. I'm sure they watch only fox news. But they were offended and mad that bad people had attacked Christians! Clutch your pearls! They had no idea about the Proud Boys. They might never have heard of Faucht, but they just heard "Christian singer" and think it's some sweet boy from a Baptist church somewhere. And they were all about the persecution of Christians and how bad it is. Everyone is attacking Christians! (yeah, here in Alabama no one can go to church or have a Bible or pray in a restaurant. So persecuted)

All that to say, they'd heard headlines (violence at Christian concert! by Antifa!) and of course RW spin. They have no idea that Faucht is a far right weirdo and they might not agree with his NAR beliefs (literal demons existing and so you need spiritual "warfare" and all the other out there NAR beliefs).

So hopefully mainstream Christians will see/hear this and think wow that's a little out there and I'll pass.

I really hope that's the case.

[Resume18]

Kandiss Taylor, a MAGA nutjob so far out that she only got 3.4% of the vote in the Republican primary for governor in 2022, is back at it again:

In Kandiss Taylor’s Christian Nation, ‘I Don’t Have to Give You Your Freedom of Religion’


During the most recent episode of her “Jesus, Guns, and Babies” program, which airs on the network owned by virulently antisemitic conspiracy theorist Stew Peters, Christian nationalist GOP activist Kandiss Taylor claimed that the Christian church is supposed to be running the government and therefore non-Christians are not entitled to freedom of religion.

Taylor is flat-earth conspiracy theorist who unsuccessfully ran for governor of Georgia in 2022 and despite her paltry showing in the Republican primary, she steadfastly refused to accept that she had lost. In 2023, Taylor became a Georgia GOP district chair and started voicing increasingly radical views, even going so far as to call for the public execution of those who oppose her Christian nationalist worldview.

Those radical views were on display during her recent program as she insisted that the Constitution was founded on common law and that common law is rooted in the Bible, meaning that the United States “was founded on Jesus Christ.”

“The idea behind the whole document was that the church runs the state,” Taylor asserted. “The church is we the people. We are the church … and so we run the state. But the state, the government, has no control over the church.”

“And everybody is like, ‘Then you gotta let Satanists come in and you gotta let witches come in, and you’ve gotta let Muslims and Hindus,'” she continued. “No. No, we don’t. No, we don’t because America is founded on God almighty, Creator God, Yahweh, Elohim. That is what we’re founded on and I don’t have to honor your religion. I don’t have to give you freedom of religion. Freedom of religion is there for us to worship Jesus. It’s not for you to come force anything else upon me.”

“So we have that all wrong,” Taylor declared. “We’ve had tolerance. We’ve been politically correct. And at what point are we going to say, ‘No, we’re not going to be’? You can do whatever you want to the comfort of your home. You can do whatever you want to, but don’t come into my government and bring any of that trash in there.”

“We shouldn’t be electing anyone in government—local, state or federal—that is not a Christian,” Taylor concluded.

Once again, saying the quiet parts out loud.

Fuck her. Well, no thanks.

[northland10]

I am so tired of the "I'm being persecuted because I am Christian" BS. 1) not being given absolute power to control others is not persecution. 2) We are supposed to welcome persecution for our beliefs. 3) seeking to be the King on earth was not Jesus's wish.

If the town will not listen to your word, get up and leave though you may give a slightly disrespectful gesture on the way out like cleaning the dust from your sandles, or the finger.

[Rolodex]

I figured this might be the best place to drop this. It's not CN, per se, but kind of a compendium of all kinds of stuff, all aiming to restructure our government.

This may sound like a theocracy to the untrained ear. Green wants you to know that it is not. “I don’t know a single person in our movement that wants a theocracy or wants a nation where everybody’s got to be a Christian,” he tells me. “Whether you’re atheist, Muslim, Buddhist, Christian, Jewish … everybody benefits from the freedom principles that came from a Christian society.”

I am beginning to get the picture. You will not be forced to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior in Biblical America. You will not be forced to attend church. But there will be prayer in school, and our history will be highly sanitized. Trans people will not have access to gender-affirming care, and marriage will be between a man and a woman. No one will force you to be a Christian in Rick Green’s America. But you will largely need to live like one

What starts as a gun class turns out to be something else entirely. Elements of MLM, CN, states' rights nutz, ADF (super xtian lawyers), Koch/Mercer money. But it all synergizes into something kinda scary.

https://newrepublic.com/article/169563/ ... ining-camp

[roadscholar]

“But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”

—-Thomas Jefferson, 1787.

[northland10]

It's about power and control.