Hamas Attacks Israel

[Suranis]

You tell us why the IDF would have attacked an aid convoy after it had already unloaded its aid, and therefore had already fed the Palestinians. Because, even if you think the IDF is committing Genocide, that makes no sense at all.

[RVInit]

You tell us why the IDF would have attacked an aid convoy after it had already unloaded its aid, and therefore had already fed the Palestinians. Because, even if you think the IDF is committing Genocide, that makes no sense at all.

To prevent them from further aid activity? And "help" other like minded to forgo any idea of providing aid to innocent Palestinians? Who knows. The IDF is basically a terrorist organization at this point.

Fighting terror with terror will hopefully once and for all have consequences for Netanyahu and his genocidal government.

[RTH10260]

...The guy himself is also an active member of IDF, but he never revealed his actual duties. My guess is that he acts as a kind of imbedded war reporter on behalf of the IDF and receives direct information from them.

So, he spreads propaganda for the IDF. Got it.

I would not say propaganda, but he does not say more than is publically available. He does make a reliable news digest, especially he also covers the events on the Lebanon front with Hezbollah. He is the most reliable source I have found among the tens of Youtube channels that popped up and claim to be the best new "news agency" on the events (many seem to be set up by one entity and then have the content replicated).

[RTH10260]

You tell us why the IDF would have attacked an aid convoy after it had already unloaded its aid, and therefore had already fed the Palestinians. Because, even if you think the IDF is committing Genocide, that makes no sense at all.

My understanding was that they had not unloaded the aid, but had been returning from the port where an aid shipment had arrived. It's possible that the IDF had ordered the units in the convoy to drive together. What makes no sense is why those armed upon the truck open fire upon the Israeli at night.

[Suranis]

Sorry, don't buy it. This was over multiple Kilometers leaving enough time between them for people to leave the Truck that had been destroyed and climb into the next one down the line and then the convoy moved on again. And if you want to stop aid getting in, you destroy aid. They would have destroyed the warehouse where the aid was.

If you want to do terror you obliterate the whole thing on one power stroke.

And if you want to stop aid getting in, you stop it at the border. You don't attack one convoy out of dozens, and do it piecemeal over three attacks over the course of a few miles.

This was goddam weird.

Edit, I was under the impression that the convoy had unloaded and was on its way back.

[raison de arizona]

Non-IDF propaganda version of events from NYT. The first fifteen minutes is WCK background, reporting on the event begins ~17:20.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/04/podc ... tchen.html

[pipistrelle]

I trust anyone from IDF like I trust Bibi.

[RVInit]

I trust anyone from IDF like I trust Bibi.

[Suranis]

Non-IDF propaganda version of events from NYT. The first fifteen minutes is WCK background, reporting on the event begins ~17:20.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/04/podc ... tchen.html

From that

The relief convoy was hit just after workers had delivered tons of food.

Which is what I thought. Empty convoy on the way back out. NYT propoganda trying to make them seem bad but saying "oh they had JUST dropped off food" is just propaganda, the important thing is that the trucks were empty

Only a three Vehicles hit, and only damaged to various degrees, and giving plenty of time for people to load into the other trucks. No-one would waste time and ammo attacking an empty convoy, and then leave the job half done. You are not hurting the enemy much by doing that. You want to hit full convoys that have plenty of enemy supplies to destroy and then obliterate them.

Look at the early parts of the Ukraine war. Russia spent days trying to get to a full convoy that had gotten stuck, because the Ukrainians had disabled them and was using them as bait to draw Russian units in. If that convoy was on its way back out no-one would have given a shit, you can always get more tankers and trucks. This attack does not make sense even if you buy into the IDF as being genocidal.

As for the "oh I don't believe anything one side says," well if the IDF is lying they are going about it in a strange way. They never denied that it happened for one thing.

And there is such a thing as Hamas propaganda. If you are dismissing the lies of one side you have to cast a similarly critical eye on the lies of the other side. This attack just does not make sense.

If you want to believe this attack was deliberate because "that's just what they would do" then fair enough, admit that, but the indications are it was not. Or at least the facts don't seem to agree with the story.

Hell the IDF side has holes in it too. The Damage does not seem to have come from an Airstrike, it looked to me like a an RPG of some kind. That car seems to have be in pretty good condition for a Plane launched missile. Its not only a very clean hole on the roof, there's no shrapnel wounds on the Windscreen either so whatever hit it didn't explode in the car.

[raison de arizona]

Heads are rolling. How unusual.

Israel dismisses 2 officers over deadly drone strikes on aid workers in Gaza

The Israeli military said Friday that it dismissed two officers and reprimanded three others for their roles in drone strikes in Gaza that killed seven aid workers on a food-delivery mission, saying the officers had mishandled critical information and violated the army’s rules of engagement.

The findings of a retired general’s investigation into the Monday killings marked an embarrassing admission by Israel, which faces growing accusations from key allies, including the United States, of not doing enough to protect Gaza’s civilians from its war with the militant Hamas group.

The findings are likely to bolster widespread skepticism over the Israeli military’s decision-making. Palestinians, aid groups and human rights organizations have repeatedly accused Israeli forces of firing recklessly at civilians throughout the conflict — a charge Israel denies.

“It’s a tragedy,” military spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari told reporters. “It’s a serious event that we are responsible for, and it shouldn’t have happened. And we will make sure that it won’t happen again.”

With pressure mounting on Israel, Hagari and other officials shared the results of the investigation with reporters late Thursday.

The speed of the probe and the swift punishment of five senior officers were unusual. Such investigations are often slow and in most cases end without charges being filed. Human rights activists have long complained that Israeli forces operate in a climate of impunity, an allegation the military rejects.

Still, the punishments and the apology seemed unlikely to calm the rising international outcry over the deaths of the World Central Kitchen workers, or to reassure international aid groups that it is safe to resume operations in Gaza, where nearly a third of the population is on the brink of starvation.

The army declined to answer questions about whether similar violations of rules of engagement have taken place during the war. In addition to many civilian deaths, more than 220 humanitarian workers have been killed in the conflict, according to the United Nations, including at least 30 killed in the line of duty.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-world ... b2342faa1d

[pipistrelle]

Heads are rolling. How unusual.

Not Bibi’s, natch.

[raison de arizona]

Yup. Always the grunts. Not the generals.

[RTH10260]

[John Thomas8]

[Suranis]

https://twitter.com/JSchanzer/status/17 ... 3862220175

Jonathan Schanzer (@JSchanzer)

Talking to European friends in various government positions, there has been an overnight shift in views on the Middle East.

After recoiling from the images out of Gaza for weeks (even months), there is now wide recognition that this entire thing has been engineered by Iran.

Twitter•Today at 7:08 PM

[raison de arizona]

2 weeks ago, we reported on a deadly strike in Gaza. The harrowing image of children's bodies splayed around a foosball table impossible to forget.
A CNN analysis of evidence recovered and documented at the scene of the strike now points to the likely cause: a precision-guided munition deployed by the Israeli military
Our report:

[raison de arizona]

gimme gimme gimme

In response to the U.S. pausing some weapon shipments to Israel to try warning them not to do war crimes, Israeli officials are now openly threatening war crimes

Israeli MK and Likud Official Tali Gottlieb have a message to the US:

“The US is threatening not to give us precise missiles . Oh yeah? Well, I got news for the US. We have imprecise missiles. I’ll use it. I’ll just collapse ten [in Gaza]. Ten buildings. That’s what I’ll do”

[p0rtia]

Regarding the above.

What she said was horrible enough, but that's not what she said. The gist is that if the US won't give Israel precise weapons, they'll use imprecise weapons, so more buildings will be hit.

Sickening, IMO. All if it is sickening.

[RVInit]

Biden is between a rock and hard place on how to deal with Israel. Jimmy Carter was the last (and probably first) American President to try to deal with Israel in a rational manner, telling them if they ever want peace they have to quit the war crimes, funding private homes to be built on what is supposed to be Palestinian land.

The Zionist Israeli government does not want peace. They instigate as much hatred on the part of Palestinians because it works for them. The more they can antagonize civilian Palestinians, the more likely Hamas will kill a handful of Israeli soldiers which gives Israel carte blanche to decimate thousands of Palestinians in retaliation. Which is all they seem to care about, having an excuse to wreak havoc and cause massive bloodshed.

Personally I will be glad when Gen X and Gen Z are running everything and defunding Israel. I would have no problem giving Israel assistance if they weren't just thumbing their noses at us and smirking about the fact that they enjoy enough popularity among the majority of Americans that they can get away with the bullshit they've been doing for years. Jimmy Carter was literally the ONLY American President with enough guts to tell them about the boogers hanging out of their nose, and they just labeled him as antisemitic and ignored his pleas for them to try to create peace by treating the Palestinian people as if they have a right to exist. And also to stop defying international law.

Anti Zionism is not antisemitism.

[Ben-Prime]

Israel's "an insanely aggressive offense is our only way to defend ourselves, keep our country intact, and keep every Israeli from harm" mindset is the same mindset we see in our own country's Conservative party, and the same philosophy we deplore when it is used to excuse excesses by law enforcement. In short, it alienates even those who agree with a fundamental premise underneath it that, yeah, self-defense of a person or a nation is completely valid. It does not, however, erase that fundamental premise and so it creates that same dichotomy.

In short, the anti-semitism vs the anti-Zionism issue is the same as the argument as between 'Black Lives Matter' and 'Blue Lives Matter'. "Why are you in favor of more dead cops?" "Why are you in favor of more dead/tortured Israelis?" It's just more of the same with different actors.

Given all the pixels and ink that have been expended on these topics, I have little more I can say, I think.

[raison de arizona]

Very astute observation Ben.

[RTH10260]

80 years after the Normandie landing ...

‘They miscalculated’: Gaza’s floating aid pier failing to deliver in rough seas
The future of US military project costing $230m in question after weather and poor security prevent aid distribution

Julian Borger in Washington
Sun 23 Jun 2024 08.00 CEST

A floating pier built by the US military for seaborne humanitarian deliveries to Gaza has proved itself to be fragile in the face of rougher seas than expected, and the future of the whole $230m project is now in question.

The pier has been usable for just 12 days since it began operations on 17 May. On most of those days the assistance arriving by sea has had to be left on the beach as there have been no trucks to distribute it to warehouses in Gaza, because of lack of security.

The scheme has fallen far short of initial expectations. When he announced it in his state of the union speech on 7 March, Joe Biden said the temporary pier “would enable a massive increase in the amount of humanitarian assistance getting into Gaza every day”.

It took more than two months to put together the two structures required, a floating dock anchored a few miles out to sea and a floating pier to be attached to the Gazan coast. About 1,000 soldiers and sailors and a small flotilla of ships were involved in the construction, including a Royal Navy landing ship, Cardigan Bay, which provided accommodation.

Over the entire course of the pier’s operation so far, however, only about 250 truckloads of food and other humanitarian assistance (4,100 tonnes) have arrived by the planned maritime corridor, less than half of what would cross into Gaza in a single day before the war. Much of the aid that has arrived so far is stuck at the foot of the pier on a marshalling yard established on the beach.

Since 274 Palestinians were killed by Israel Defense Forces in the course of a hostage rescue mission on 8 June, the World Food Programme (WFP) has suspended the convoys that were supposed to take pallets of aids from the marshalling yard to warehouses and then to the 2.3 million people of Gaza under bombardment and facing famine. The WFP says its security review is still in progress.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/artic ... rough-seas

[Suranis]

https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1805297336765104479

Faytuks News (@Faytuks) on X
Hamas plans to leave Qatar for Iraq, according to The National. The Iraqi government approved the move last month and Iran will be responsible for protecting Hamas’s leaders, offices and personnel in Baghdad, sources say

https://t.co/CubRnA3EnR

[RTH10260]

tsk tsk tsk - Mossad will feel better at home in Iraq when hunting down Hamas leadership. Even the Amercans may have some drones in the air and a hellfire missile to spare.

[Chilidog]

An interesting development.

Jerusalem
CNN
—
Israel’s Supreme Court on Tuesday ordered the government to draft ultra-Orthodox Jews into the military, delivering a blow to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that has the potential to unravel his ruling coalition.

The court also ordered the government to withdraw funding from any religious schools, or yeshivas, whose students do not comply with draft notices.

“The government wanted to distinguish at the level of law enforcement between individuals based on their group affiliation,” the court said in its ruling. “It was determined that by doing so, the government seriously harmed the rule of law and the principle according to which all individuals are equal before the law.”

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/06/25/midd ... court-intl