The rise of Christian Nationalism

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p0rtia
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The rise of Christian Nationalism

#51

Post by p0rtia »

Foggy wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 12:27 pm
But the thing is, if someone calls themself a Christian, then they are, because it's about belief, not acts.
I disagree. I had this discussion with a woman who claimed that all she had to do was say that Christ was her personal savior and poof! She was a saved Christian. I think you gotta at least try to lead a Christian life using Christian principles. Heck, I'm not even a Christian (agnostic here) but I was taught to live my life according to Christian principles, and I still sorta do, if I'm being honest.

But being a Christian is not, or at least should not, be an easy thing. Being a real Christian is hard work. I don't know about other religions.
I'm with Rolodex here. Trying to define "Christian" is a dead end, because there are as many definitions as there are denominations. Which is one of the reasons I have doubts about "Christian Nationalist" as a term that has legs.

I wish they would just register a party name and be done with it. Then they use their so-called righteous belief to maim and terrorize, in the traditional fashion. And leave my friends who use the term Christian with grace, and who actually care about human rights and community, alone.
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The rise of Christian Nationalism

#52

Post by keith »

Suranis wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:18 pm
I will just point out that when someone, in the middle of a massive pile on in Oldbow showed me a link to Final Report of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada into the Indian Residential schools, the same person posted that I was trying to whitewash the Church. Because I did what no-one else had done... I read it. And I accepted what it said, good and bad, And I started quoting what it actually said. Rather than sticking to the delusions about what it MUST say.
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The rise of Christian Nationalism

#53

Post by Reality Check »

qbawl wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 11:29 pm I have to side with Sam on this one. Atheists are a diverse group. Our universal dogma is a lack of dogma and no need for a 'supreme' being to dictate or even inform morality.
I find the fairly new meme by theists that "Atheism is a religion" to be amusing. It's meant to be an insult I suppose. If being compared to theists is the best insult a theist can cough up I think that says a lot more about what theists think about themselves than it does atheists and agnostics. Pardon me while I go pray on my knees to the Almighty Christopher Hitchens. :rotflmao:
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The rise of Christian Nationalism

#54

Post by p0rtia »

I take the pretty obvious position that the defining feature of this group we're calling CN or C-F or MAGA is _not_ any Christianity, by any common definition. (NB: I feel the same way about a large swath of those who call themselves Evangelicals, also.)

So what do people think are the defining features?

A lack of critical thinking?
Racist and xenophobic tendencies?
Authoritarian personality (meaning they like to be told what to do)?

???
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The rise of Christian Nationalism

#55

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Authoritariansim, esp of the patriarchal type. These folks don't like other names for God, like Creator, Mother, etc. They are very binary in gendering (which explains all their crazy laws about bathrooms, etc). Same groups who blame young women for "tempting" clergy when the clergy abuse them. All these folks are what I'd call a "high control" group. The binary thinking extends to their understanding of the Bible (as I talked about above). They like one, easy to understand, ultimate authority on how to live, and men make the decisions about what all that entails. But having clear black and white answers is a comfort to a lot of people and questioning things makes them uncomfortable. And there you have all the book ban folks, the trans kids in sports folks, the no women clergy folks, the anti-DEI folks.
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The rise of Christian Nationalism

#56

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:yeahthat:
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The rise of Christian Nationalism

#57

Post by p0rtia »

Here's a Bulwark pod with Tim Miller interviewing the authors of "White Rural Rage, the Biggest Threat to American Democracy."

Note that the authors say that the book is actually about White Rural Resentment, but alas, that didn't make a good cover, and the publisher overruled.

This is the best attempt I've seen lately to actually discuss the reality that MAGA voters are ignorant, arrogant, and have some nasty policy preferences. Good on them.

They start off by reminding us that goddam rural white male voters get an unfair share of the power. They move on to point out that even though they think Dems have "forgotten them", Republicans do absolutely nothing for them (this has been a talking point of mine for years).

They also make the point that thinking you’re a victim is the biggest indicator for supporting fuckhead. A fact that can't be mentioned often enough, IMO.

Worth a listen, especially the first half hour.

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The rise of Christian Nationalism

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Post by John Thomas8 »

Christian Nationalism, christofascism, Qnon, maga, all are aggressive and nasty forms of societal cancer.

We need to treat them appropriately.
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The rise of Christian Nationalism

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That's definitely a piece of it. But I also have friends who voted happily for Trump in 2016. Some even went to rallies. These are doctors, lawyers, other very high wealth business people with advanced degrees, well-traveled folks. I don't know what they did in 2020 because by then all of them stopped talking politics on facebook and my personal acquaintances have stopped talking about it, too. One was flying his DeSantis flag on his boat last summer (not sure what he did with his trump flag).

I do want to read that book. There's a group in NC called Dirt Road Democrats. They may be more places, but there needs to be more of that so rural folks can maybe learn about how they're being screwed.
Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest. - Mark Twain
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The rise of Christian Nationalism

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Post by John Thomas8 »

Rolodex wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 6:18 pm That's definitely a piece of it. But I also have friends who voted happily for Trump in 2016. Some even went to rallies. These are doctors, lawyers, other very high wealth business people with advanced degrees, well-traveled folks. I don't know what they did in 2020 because by then all of them stopped talking politics on facebook and my personal acquaintances have stopped talking about it, too. One was flying his DeSantis flag on his boat last summer (not sure what he did with his trump flag).

I do want to read that book. There's a group in NC called Dirt Road Democrats. They may be more places, but there needs to be more of that so rural folks can maybe learn about how they're being screwed.
It's not an intelligence deficiency, it is a distinct lack of morals. Throw in the Prosperity Theologians (in a Ven diagram of the 4 groups I listed and PT adherents, the circles are indistinguishable) and they just do not possess the character to be part of a decent society.
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Post by raison de arizona »

The Intellectualist @highbrow_nobrow wrote: Christian Nationalist boasts about not letting his wife read books because he doesn't want her to "outpace" him. @Meltart.
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Post by Slim Cognito »

Too late.
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The rise of Christian Nationalism

#63

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Gilead-Speak.
Like as the waves make towards the pebbled shore,
So do our minutes hasten to their end . . .
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The rise of Christian Nationalism

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I've heard it said that testosterone is the most dangerous drug on the planet. And he meant the natural variety, also.
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#65

Post by raison de arizona »

Just watching a great flick on this topic, Bad Faith: Christian Nationalism's Unholy War on Democracy.

Here's the IMDB page with graphics and trailer: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt21247172/

Highly recommend if you want to learn more about this topic and its history.

I watched it free (with ads) on Tubi.
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Post by raison de arizona »

Idaho. Talk about the rise of Christian Nationalism, here it is.
Idaho Tribune @IdahoTribune wrote: Banning Crosses didn’t work out well for the @cdachamber.

We the People have had enough of the anti-Christ tyrants that are in control of Coeur d’Alene.

CHRIST IS KING!
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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Post by Resume18 »

raison de arizona wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 4:27 pm Idaho. Talk about the rise of Christian Nationalism, here it is.
Idaho Tribune @IdahoTribune wrote: Banning Crosses didn’t work out well for the @cdachamber.

We the People have had enough of the anti-Christ tyrants that are in control of Coeur d’Alene.

CHRIST IS KING!
Depends on which Christ, dunnit?
Like as the waves make towards the pebbled shore,
So do our minutes hasten to their end . . .
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Post by raison de arizona »

“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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So, the New Apostolic Reformation goons are coming hard for Harris. The NAR is the most dangerous of the nutty Christian groups out there. They are seriously into "spritual warfare." Although they don't explicitly call for physical violence, they speak in violent ways and the folks who attacked on J6 were part of and heavily influenced by those NAR folks. One of the NAR folks is Paula White, who was trump's "spiritual advisor" in the White House. They believe in literal demons and demonic spirits. Turning their focus on Harris is kind of scary.
PS NAR has tight relationship with CNP which is full of super influential people.

Here's a thread from an expert on NAR.
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Post by Slim Cognito »

That's scary. And the damn Secret Service better get their act together.
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Slim Cognito wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2024 11:26 am That's scary. And the damn Secret Service better get their act together.
Yeah I don't think enough attention is paid to these folks. They are seriously scary and dangerous and influential. They might not call for physical violence but their followers aren't big on nuance. They fly under radar unless you're following the NAR folks closely but they have an outsized impact and MSM seems to ignore them. The folks who do those "Joshua" walks and shofars come from the NAR.
Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest. - Mark Twain
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Post by johnpcapitalist »

Some pretty scary verbiage coming out from Texas (quelle surprise), saying the quiet parts out loud.
Christian Nationalist Pastor Joel Webbon Would Ban ‘Public Displays of Worship to False Gods’

Texas-based pastor Joel Webbon was among the contributors to a 2023 document called “The Statement on Christian Nationalism and the Gospel.” Drafted by Christian nationalists like Oklahoma state Sen. Dusty Deevers, former Trump administration official William Wolfe, and others, the document declared that the United States must formally “acknowledge the Lordship of Christ” in all its laws, “abolish abortion,” outlaw marriage equality, and “recapture our national sovereignty from godless, global entities who present a grave threat to civilization.”

In his own capacity, Webbon has been even aggressively theocratic, proclaiming that Christian nationalists must gain and use political power for the purpose of “crushing our enemies and rewarding our friends.” Christian nationalists must wield that power, Webbon has argued, because the American people are too degenerate, stupid, and cowardly to abide by the Constitution and must therefore be governed by a Christian dictator who “just rules with an iron fist” and forces everyone to “pretend to be Christian.” Under such a dictator, Webbon wants to see the Apostles’ Creed added to the Constitution; abortion, pornography, no-fault divorce, in vitro fertilization, and birth control outlawed; women banned from voting; and non-Christians kept out of his neighborhood.

During a recent appearance on “The Green Dragon Tavern Show,” Webbon explained what life under this sort of Christian nationalism would be like for non-Christians, who would be banned from any public displays of faith in order to prevent the judgment of God from falling on the nation.

“How do we deal with our unbelieving neighbors in a manner that is fitting to the Christian gospel?” Webbon said. “I would not have a government police system that’s going into private homes of Muslims or Jews or Hindus and trying to catch them mid-family worship as they’re bowing down to some idol. I think that that would be incredibly inappropriate and a breach of the sanctity of individual privacy and that it would be the government stepping outside of its jurisdiction that God has given.”

“However,” he continued. “I would be comfortable saying there will be no Islamic parades. For instance, in Minnesota [there are] Islamic, five times a day, public calls to prayer. I would say you can have church bells—Christian church bells—that everyone in town can hear, including the non-Christians and they can just kind of put up with it. It’s not unnecessarily antagonistic—church bells, not church sirens; you’re not going out of your way to be a jerk—it’s a pleasant sound, but it is a publicly universally heard sound throughout the day by all the citizens, whether they’re Christian or not. But you could not have Islamic siren calls to prayer, even if they were pretty. You still couldn’t have them because allowing for private worship in the home of a Muslim would be permissible, but public displays of worship to false gods, that’s erecting high places in a nation to false gods and God will not bless that.”
So if worshiping publicly of false gods becomes illegal and they can't prove that the Christian god exists, what happens? Does that mean that Christianity is outlawed?
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Churches are losing members right now. Positions like this are more likely to drive folks away from Christianity than draw them in. They're the MAGA minority of Christianity.
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Post by zekeb »

MN-Skeptic wrote: Mon Aug 19, 2024 4:18 pm Churches are losing members right now. Positions like this are more likely to drive folks away from Christianity than draw them in. They're the MAGA minority of Christianity.
In other words, these "Christians" give Christians a bad name.

Only in America do you get to use religion to justify your self-serving greed.
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Post by MN-Skeptic »

zekeb wrote: Mon Aug 19, 2024 4:23 pm Only in America do you get to use religion to justify your self-serving greed.
They're just doing what other religious leaders have done for millennia around the entire globe.
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