State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization

#1701

noblepa wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 1:11 pm However, lying about the value of an asset to obtain a larger mortgage is simply fraud, plain and simple. If you obtain an $8M mortgage on a property with a realistic value of $5M, by lying and claiming it is worth $10M, is blatant fraud. If you are forced to sell, you may get $4M, leaving you on the hook for the other $4M.

Exactly. New York State sued trump for perpetrating this fraud and now he's facing the consequences of his actions. I find that hysterically, ironically funny.

#1702

Frater I*I wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:21 pm Is anyone growing tired of seeing Zee Orange Furher getting punched in the dick yet?

Me neither....

I would prefer the addition of some brass knuckes, but beggars can't be choosers.

Maybenaut · #1703

If he’s facing “insurmountable difficulties” in securing the bond, it seems likely that he’d face similar (if perhaps not identical) difficulties in paying the judgment. To me, that is all the more reason to deny any stay of enforcement, so the judgment creditor can get start collecting.

I have no sympathy for him. I hope the State gets to start enforcement soon.

Sam the Centipede · #1704

Thanks for the clarification/reminder that the bond is for stay of execution, not for permission to appeal. So that negates any complaint that "unfair! we can't appeal!" which would seem unjust.

We read in the affidavits that sureties rarely offer bonds over $100M. But I don't recall reading any assertion that a bond of $100M would be available if the Trump Gang tried for it.

So it would be fun if the prosecutors agreed to a bond of $100M and then the Trump Gang found that sum out of reach too, and tried to explain why that was unreasonable, unfair, biased, or Joe Biden's fault.

much ado · #1705

tek wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:46 pm "Lara? This is Donald. How much money does the RNC have?"

"Lara....? LARA....?? LAARAAAA....???"

Suranis · #1706

much ado wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 1:43 pm
tek wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:46 pm "Lara? This is Donald. How much money does the RNC have?"
"Lara....? LARA....?? LAARAAAA....???"

"Uh Donald"

"Call me daddy."

".... Daddy... I just got hold of the accounts and all they have in the bank vault is an IOU signed "45."

"Ya ya ya, ok, ok, just use that to get a bank loan for 200 million and send it to me k thanks bye"

"But we cant pay the Janitor... hello? Hello?"

much ado · #1707

My dreams are coming true.

Kendra · #1708

I think it was last week that Katie Phang was in for Ari Melber on The Beat. In one of the segments, she brought in a guy who works in bonds just like tfg needs. Really interesting conversation, and why most of them wouldn't take that real estate as collateral. Market ups and down and stuff like that.

noblepa · #1709

Maybenaut wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 1:34 pm If he’s facing “insurmountable difficulties” in securing the bond, it seems likely that he’d face similar (if perhaps not identical) difficulties in paying the judgment. To me, that is all the more reason to deny any stay of enforcement, so the judgment creditor can get start collecting.

I have no sympathy for him. I hope the State gets to start enforcement soon.

To be fair, others here have said that the sureties will not accept real estate as collateral for the bond. He has plenty of real estate, although there is some question about how much equity he really has, since he lies through his teeth about the value of those properties. (That may be part of the reason that bonding companies won't accept real estate).

If the judgement is upheld and he finally has to pay, he could sell some of those properties to pay the judgment, even though they could not be used for the bond.

much ado · #1710

I vote he sell Trump One as a show of good faith.

Rolodex · #1711

I'm probably wrong, but I think trump tower and MAL are the only ones he "owns" without partners (except of course the banks he owes). Disposing of these real properties is gonna be enormously complicated, plus I imagine not very fast. Golf courses are notorious money pits. His hotel (not even sure if he owns it at all or it's just the branding deal) in Vegas doesn't have a casino, which is a major negative.

Maybe he can somehow sell his "name"/branding/management to raise cash. Business would go up if a trump hotel somewhere changed into a Ritz or even a Marriott.

I hope Jordan Klepper asks people about this when he goes to trump rallies.

#1712

He had a very long time to get his ducks in order for this one. It was a no brainer that he was going to lose this case and he knew it. I feel no pity for him.

But something tells me he will somehow wheedle his way out of it. Or one of the dictators will step in and help out. If the Saudis believe he will be president again I am sure they are already on the phone making a deal with him to fuck America over and give the Saudis something no other administration in their right mind would ever give them. But not sure what is left to gift the Saudis with, Trump already sold out the USA his first time around. So, maybe not?

#1713

I often wonder what his game will be when he loses the election. Of course, he can cause a lot of trouble, using his cult. But personally, what options are open to him when it's clear he will never be anything more than Citizen trump?

#1714

AndyinPA wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 2:49 pm I often wonder what his game will be when he loses the election. Of course, he can cause a lot of trouble, using his cult. But personally, what options are open to him when it's clear he will never be anything more than Citizen trump?

I'm rooting for prison bars!

#1715

You know you are living in scary times when a major party candidate is either going to spend the next four years in the White House or in the hoosegow.

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkk!

much ado · #1716

I hope he loses, then...

runs again in 2028.

Shizzle Popped · #1717

bob · #1718

The reply makes the expected argument about irreparable harm: That if the AG starts forcing properties to be sold, they'll be sold at fire-sale prices, and that he'll never receive market-rate compensation for them. So when he inevitably wins on appeal

, he still will be harmed even if the AG returns the money to him. Because he'll never be able to repurchase those properties, and he'll have taken a loss on those forced sales.

These are reasonable arguments ... provided your likelihood of winning on appeal is reasonable. But the trial judge had a front-row seat to the incompetence of playing to the cheap seats (and an audience of one) instead of making a better appellate record.

Sam the Centipede · #1719

bob wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 3:34 pm The reply makes the expected argument about irreparable harm: That if the AG starts forcing properties to be sold, they'll be sold at fire-sale prices,

Does that argument have any traction in a courtroom? Or more practically, does it ever work?

much ado · #1720

Well, this story has certainly lit up the MSM. Like, you know: "WHAT??!!, Trump can't come up with a measly $500 million??? After he's been bragging for YEARS about how rich he is??!! Like, honestly, WTF??!!" (No, they don't, for the most part, actually say that, but that is why it is such big news.)

I found an expert article a couple of years ago about how when mob leaders lose their money, their reputation as a "gangsta" rapidly becomes tarnished. The expert suggested the same thing would eventually happen to Trump. Let's hope so. It will be interesting to see how the MAGAts respond.

Here is the coverage by the New York TImes and Washington Post, for your interest.

NY Times gift: Trump Spurned by 30 Companies as He Seeks Bond in $454 Million Judgment

WaPo gift: Trump unable to finance an appeal bond for at least $450 million, lawyers say

Rolodex · #1721

Lil surprised that Elon didn't bail him out. He posted something on the bird site about the country being over with if trump doesn't win so it looks like we know how he likes his koolaid flavored.

I guess he can't ask his son-in-law for a loan from his $2 billion investment whatever it is. It'll be funny if Jared ends up the only White House staffer whose father and father-in-law end up in prison.

Suranis · #1722

Rolodex wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 4:18 pm He posted something on the bird site about...

Musk is full of shit. He's a shit stirrer. If you believe anything that comes out of his keyboard you are mistaken. Thinking he believes a word of anything he posts there is being mistaken. He will say whatever to get people arguing and angry, because he is sitting snugly and smugly in a place no-one can touch him.

Plus, saying MAGA shit probably gets him more likes, which is the other thing he loves.

much ado · #1723

Rolodex wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 4:18 pm Lil surprised that Elon didn't bail him out. He posted something on the bird site about the country being over with if trump doesn't win so it looks like we know how he likes his koolaid flavored.

I guess he can't ask his son-in-law for a loan from his $2 billion investment whatever it is. It'll be funny if Jared ends up the only White House staffer whose father and father-in-law end up in prison.

One theory might be that Elon said "Sure, I can bail you out, but first plead that the court issue a stay without bond. If that doesn't work, then I've got you." Elon would be the bond-maker of last resort.

Rolodex · #1724

Suranis wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 4:26 pm
Rolodex wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 4:18 pm He posted something on the bird site about...
Musk is full of shit. He's a shit stirrer. If you believe anything that comes out of his keyboard you are mistaken. Thinking he believes a word of anything he posts there is being mistaken. He will say whatever to get people arguing and angry, because he is sitting snugly and smugly in a place no-one can touch him.

Plus, saying MAGA shit probably gets him more likes, which is the other thing he loves.

Oh, I don't disagree. And I'm not that sure that all of his wealth is kind of illiquid anyway. I guess a lot of it is stock? But it would be hard to sell 1/2 billion $ worth of it. If he has that much.

#1725

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time pay the fine.