State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization

[pipistrelle]

I don't think he's trying to keep a lot of dry powder because the office real estate market in the US is suffering massively, especially in major downtown markets, where he (and the Kushner family) have been strong in the past. I wouldn't be putting money into commercial real estate today. I think he's trying to conserve cash for legal fees, which is what's keeping him out of jail. I seem to recall numbers like $200 million or even more spent on the various civil and criminal suits. He's probably figuring that he can't both pay the fines and put up a criminal defense, and he's not going to win if he dumps all the legal "talent" and goes with a public defender. So trying to negotiate out of judgments is the only option he's got.

He keeps saying Mar-a-lago is worth over $1 billion, although I'm not sure he's claiming it as a hotel or residence. I see various figures for different properties, include wild variations for Buckingham Palace. Any way to figure out what it's actually worth?

[Suranis]

Any way to figure out what it's actually worth?

Sell it.

[Uninformed]

Palm Beach County Mar a Lardo property details:
https://pbcpao.gov/Property/Details?par ... 5000020390

2023
Appraisal: Total Market Value $37,000,000

Taxable Value: $33,396,000

[RTH10260]

Any way to figure out what it's actually worth?

Sell it.

And before the ink has dried it's value drops bottomless depending on what club members still see in a club house without the T (assuming the cöub can keep up a minimal standard expected by its clientele).

[raison de arizona]

Letitia James booed in speech to NYC firefighters

New York Attorney General Letitia James (D) faced roaring boos and chants for “Trump” on Thursday as she delivered a speech at a New York City Fire Department (FDNY) promotion ceremony.

As James walked up to the podium, some people in the crowd clapped and others booed. The booing grew louder, prompting James to address the matter before beginning her official remarks.

“Oh, come on. We’re in our house of God,” James said to the crowd as they heckled her.

“First,” James said, trying to begin her remarks. She paused and appeared to be waiting for the booing to subside.

“Simmer down. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for getting it out of your system.”

The booing remained loud during the first couple minutes of James’s remarks, which honored the Rev. Pamela Holmes-Saxton, who was being sworn in as the FDNY’s first African American female chaplain.

A few minutes into the speech, the heckling peaked as some in the crowd began chanting “Trump” in an apparent display of loyalty to the former president, who faced off against the New York attorney general in the sprawling civil fraud case against his business empire.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... efighters/

[pipistrelle]

Disrespectful and childish.

[Ben-Prime]

Indeed, even, as one Mr. Garvey would say...

[Dave from down under]

It is a cult

[chancery]

Trump has filed reply papers in support of his motion to stay enforcement of the judgment won by the State of New York.

https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/sta ... 380748067

Adam Klasfeld
@KlasfeldReports
News

Trump's attorneys tell a New York appeals court that "Posting a Full Undertaking Is a Practical Impossibility," seeking to stay execution of the ~$464M civil fraud judgment.

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef ... 4iSoe3tA==

I haven't read the brief.

For the first time Trump has submitted affidavits from people with knowledge, Trump's general counsel and an insurance broker, describing the difficulties they have encountered in attempting to bond the judgment. I extracted the affidavits from the four thousand page pdf and tried to upload them, but the pdf is about 40k too big. However, you can find them in the full pdf linked-to above, at pdf pages 41-51. If I have time later on I'll extract the text.

The affidavits seem unexceptional on first glance, and certainly it's unlikely that the court would have granted relief without any evidentiary submission on this subject. Whether these affidavits will do the job, I have no idea; we'll see.

One thing that does stick out is that Gary Giuleitti, an executive at a large insurance brokerage firm, states that he was been working on the problem "over the last several weeks." The judgment was entered over a month ago, and the order granting partial summary judgment, which made a substantial monetary judgment nearly inevitable, was entered half a year ago. A litigant seeking this kind of relief needs to show prompt diligence, and the court might wonder why Trump waited so long before trying to secure a bond.

However, the affidavit of Alan Garten, Trump's general counsel, states that Trump has worked with four separate brokers, and perhaps the process was started sooner than "several weeks" ago ... although he does not say when it began.

[bill_g]

Sounds like the Market has spoken - TFB DJT

[Volkonski]

Guess Trump isn't as rich as he has claimed to be.

Trump Spurned by 30 Companies as He Seeks Bond in $454 Million Judgment
Donald J. Trump’s lawyers said in a court filing that he faces “insurmountable difficulties” as he tries to raise cash for the civil fraud penalty he faces in New York.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/18/nyre ... &sgrp=c-cb

Donald J. Trump’s lawyers disclosed on Monday that he had failed to secure a roughly half-billion dollar bond in his civil fraud case in New York, arguing that doing so was “a practical impossibility.”

The filing, coming one week before the bond is due, raised the prospect that the former president might face a financial crisis unless an appeals court comes to his rescue. Mr. Trump has asked the appeals court to pause the $454 million judgment that a New York judge imposed on Mr. Trump last month, or accept a bond of only $100 million.

The former president has been unable to secure the full bond, his lawyers said in the court filing on Monday, despite “diligent efforts.” Those efforts included approaching about 30 companies, and yet, they said, he has encountered “insurmountable difficulties.”

The judge in the civil fraud case, Arthur F. Engoron, levied the penalty and other punishments on Mr. Trump after concluding that he had fraudulently inflated his net worth to obtain favorable loans and other benefits. The case, brought by the New York attorney general, Letitia James, has posed a grave financial threat to Mr. Trump.

[noblepa]

Guess Trump isn't as rich as he has claimed to be.

I've said before that I don't believe he is a billionaire. A billionaire is someone with a net worth in excess of $1B. He has assets well in excess of that amount, but it seems that most are mortgaged to the hilt and at least some of those mortgages are based on wildly inflated values.

It wouldn't surprise me at all, if anyone could do a true statement of his net worth, that he is, in fact, insolvent.

He has claimed in the past, to be "the King of debt".

[tek]

I had to laugh when I went to read this story on the Globe..

Untitled-1.jpg (407.58 KiB) Viewed 242 times

[Frater I*I]

Is anyone growing tired of seeing Zee Orange Furher getting punched in the dick yet?






Me neither....

[AndyinPA]

I thought he said recently he was worth $14 billion dollars. Surely, he can afford less than half a billion?

[RTH10260]

MTN Ben Meiselas quotes from Teh Danalds filing

[RTH10260]

Looks to me that they have only worked to secure a bond by a third party rather than also working on a package of dtj owned securities to offer as a bond

[p0rtia]

It says no one will accept real estate to secure a bond.

[noblepa]

I thought he said recently he was worth $14 billion dollars. Surely, he can afford less than half a billion?

More importatly, didn't he say, not long ago, that he had hundreds of millions in cash?

[tek]

"Lara? This is Donald. How much money does the RNC have?"

[Sam the Centipede]

The affidavits (thx chancery I hope you enjoy all 4919 pages of that document!) indicate sureties (the companies that might issue bonds) only accept cash, cash equivalents, or marketable financial assets as collateral security for the bond. In particular, that means they don't accept real estate as collateral.

So the Trump Gang would have to find over half a billions worth of almost-cash.

Any productive company (making things or providing practical services) that could do that would probably be guilty of under-utilizing its assets, why have so much almost-cash rather than either investing in concrete assets or distributing it to shareholders?

The possibility of raising cash by mortgaging the over-valued Trump real estate is presumably precluded by (1) the fact that these properties are probably already heavily encumbered by mortgages, (2) any company offering a mortgage now would need to have completely lost its senses.

So, what does this mean? No bond, therefore no appeal? That might actually save Trump money, as an appeal would probably be doomed, would cost a load more in lawyers' fees, and would have interest accruing on the judgement amount.

[noblepa]

So, what does this mean? No bond, therefore no appeal? That might actually save Trump money, as an appeal would probably be doomed, would cost a load more in lawyers' fees, and would have interest accruing on the judgement amount.

IANAL, but several IAAL's here and taking heads on TV have pointed out that a bond is not required for an appeal.

A bond is required to get a stay of execution. That means that Latisha James can begin foreclosure proceedings on Trump Tower and other assets immediately, without waiting for the results of the appeal.

[MN-Skeptic]

I've said before that I don't believe he is a billionaire. A billionaire is someone with a net worth in excess of $1B. He has assets well in excess of that amount, but it seems that most are mortgaged to the hilt and at least some of those mortgages are based on wildly inflated values.

It wouldn't surprise me at all, if anyone could do a true statement of his net worth, that he is, in fact, insolvent.

He has claimed in the past, to be "the King of debt".

There can be a lot of advantages to being highly leveraged. However, it also drastically increases risk. One thing that I remember about the Great Recession is that the companies which survived were the ones which were not highly leveraged.

[noblepa]

There can be a lot of advantages to being highly leveraged. However, it also drastically increases risk. One thing that I remember about the Great Recession is that the companies which survived were the ones which were not highly leveraged.

That is true, and there is nothing wrong, in principle with being heavily leveraged. In fact, the old adage is that the best way to get rich is with someone else's money.

However, lying about the value of an asset to obtain a larger mortgage is simply fraud, plain and simple. If you obtain an $8M mortgage on a property with a realistic value of $5M, by lying and claiming it is worth $10M, is blatant fraud. If you are forced to sell, you may get $4M, leaving you on the hook for the other $4M.

Plus, commercial property values are pretty volitle. The value can easily drop significantly.

[W. Kevin Vicklund]

IANAL, but my expectation is that a partial bond (whatever the correct term is) of between $100M and $200M will be settled on. His fixed assets (real estate, mainly) in NY should be enough to cover the remainder*, reducing the risk faced by the state in letting an appeal proceed.

*assuming realistic evaluations, not Trumpalistic fantasies