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The dregs of birther remainders.

These people are weird, but we like to find out what weird people are doing and thinking. It's a hobby.
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realist
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The dregs of birther remainders.

#1351

Post by realist »

bob wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 10:08 pm P&E comments:
Harold wrote:An honest court, seeking a decision based on the intent of the Framers, would have to rule Gabbard ineligible.
* *
'DeMaio' wrote:Moreover, Vivek Ramaswamy could do the Republic a great service if, now that he is no longer a presidential aspirant, he acknowledged that he was not an nbC; that he agrees that Nikki Haley and Kamala Harris are also constitutionally ineligible; and that for that reason, Harris should resign.

Do not hold your breath on that option, despite the fact that it quickly would solve a lot of problems.
This kind of talk shows birthers know they'll never win in the real world. They're content to :yankyank: in Rondeau's comment section.
:yeahthat:
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Reality Check
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#1352

Post by Reality Check »

One question I like to pose to Birther crazies like Leonard Daneman is something like this:
  • The Supreme COurt has stated several times that there are two kinds of US citizens, natural born and naturalized.
  • Wong Kim Ark was ruled to be a citizen. What kind of citizen was he?
Usually at this point they dodge the question or, like Apuzzo lie and claim there are 3 class of citizens. Leonard really told a whopper and claimed WKA was naturalized. This was the exchange we had:
paralegalnm wrote:The SC in Wong Kim Ark decided Wong was a citizen by being born on U.S. soil under the feudal concept of jus soli, an antiquated and rejected British common law. This was not only in conflict with existing statute, but unconstitutional.

DEFINITION: Naturalized

Naturalization is the dealienage of foreign allegiance and nationality through operation of law. In the case of Obama, he was a citizen at birth solely by statute which dealienaged his fathers British nationality through statute, specifically 8 USC 1409(c) if I recall correctly.
My response:
Of course the truth is that Wong Kim Ark could not become a naturalized citizen by law since the Chinese Exclusion Acts prevented someone of Chinese heritage from naturalizing. The court never found them to be unconstitutional and mentioned them in this very case:

It is conceded that, if he is a citizen of the United States, the acts of Congress, known as the Chinese Exclusion Acts, prohibiting persons of the Chinese race, and especially Chinese laborers, from coming into the United States, do not and cannot apply to him.

So the court said that had he not been a citizen at birth he would be subject to deportation and this implies of course his parents could not naturalize so he could not be a citizen by parentage nor could he naturalize later. His only path to citizenship was to be natural born by birth in California.

One of the leading attorneys in the United States at the time of Wong Kim Ark, WIlliam Dameron Guthrie, wrote about the decision:
“The phrase ‘subject to the jurisdiction thereof’ in this clause has occasioned considerable difficulty. If the parents of a child born in the United States were citizens the meaning was clear. But what was to be the status of a child born in the United States of Indians or of Chinese or other alien parentage? In the leading case of Elk v Wilkins it was decided that an Indian born a member of one of our Indian tribes still existing and recognized as such even tho he had voluntarily separated himself from his people, and taken up his residence among the white citizens, but who did not appear to have been naturalized or taxed, was not born in the United States subject to the jurisdiction thereof, and was not a citizen. He was born subject to the jurisdiction of his tribe. This decision left in uncertainty the legal status of all others born in the United States of alien parentage. Was their citizenship to be determined by the common-law of locality of birth or was the rule of the civil law as to the allegiance of the parents to control? This question was not settled until a few weeks ago thirty years after the amendment adopted thus showing how slowly constitutional law develops the life of a nation. The common law rule has been finally affirmed by the Supreme Court in the recent case of the United States v Wong Kim Ark. The Supreme Court held that a child born in this country of Chinese parents domiciled here is a citizen of the United States by virtue of the locality of his birth. The whole subject is discussed at length in the opinions of this case. The effect of this decision is to make citizens of the United States, by virtue of the Fourteenth Amendment, all persons born in United States of alien parents and permanently domiciled here, except the children of the diplomatic representatives of foreign powers; and therefore, a male child born here of alien Chinese subjects is now eligible to the office of President, altho his parents could not be naturalized under our laws.
Of course the government in opposition in WKA also wrote about the horrors that ruling in favor of WKA it would make Chinese born on US soil eligible to become president some day.

So paralegalnm you are completely wrong. Wong Kim Ark was a natural born citizen and every honest person knows it.
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bob
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#1353

Post by bob »

Reality Check wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 4:14 pm Usually at this point they dodge the question or, like Apuzzo lie and claim there are 3 class of citizens. Leonard really told a whopper and claimed WKA was naturalized.
Birthers (and those more recently "questioning" Haley and Ramaswamy) invented a "rule" that, if your citizenship was acquired by an act of Congress, you naturalized.

No court, of course, has said this. It also isn't logical because, if you look at 8 U.S.C. sec. 1401, it explains who a citizen is. In other words, literally every U.S. citizen "naturalized" under that dumb definition.

And, more philosophically, citizens and nations don't exist in nature. All nations, all citizens exist due to positive law.
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p0rtia
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#1354

Post by p0rtia »

Thanks, guys. Love these journeys down memory lane.

:bighug:
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Luke
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#1355

Post by Luke »

RWNJ posts a Mike Zullo interview :lol: Enjoy commenting on this:

Not A Number @myhiddenvalue 2h

Experts confirm in a full 10-minute report:

Barack Obama's birth certificate is fake

Lt Root Beer of the Mighty 699th. Fogbow 💙s titular Mama June in Fogbow's Favourite Show™ Mama June: From Not To Hot! Fogbow's Theme Song™ Edith Massey's "I Got The Evidence!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5jDHZd0JAg
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bob
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#1356

Post by bob »

P&E: Many “Conspiracy Theories” are True:
Tom Arnold wrote:A few of today’s well-known and most disputed conspiracy theories are described below. My belief is that naysayers will eventually learn that many of these so-called conspiracies are NOT nefarious plots or unfounded stories.

* * *

1. So-called “BIRTHERISM.” This is the widely disputed and intensely attacked conspiracy theory that Barack Hussein Obama was not born in the United States and therefore was not constitutionally eligible to run for or become president. I myself am a “birther,” and have been since 2008-09. To me, the decision about whether this conspiracy is true or false was an easy one to make. Obama’s claim of being a “natural born (American) citizen” in compliance with Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of our Constitution is refuted by the findings of multiple forensic document experts. They concluded beyond a doubt that Obama’s “birth certificate” is an amateurish, photo-shopped, pieced-together forgery.

* * *

So there you have it. Call me crazy.
:crazy:
Some day, though, I believe history will “get the story straight.”
"Some day," ... any day now. :roll:
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bob
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#1357

Post by bob »

P&E: Reason Prevails; Rationalization Fails:
'DeMaio' wrote:[Sotomayor, Kagan, and Jackson] specifically reference Art. 2, § 1, Cl. 5 of the Constitution, viz., the “Eligibility Clause” (see p. 4, “protest” statement*) which has been exhaustively addressed by your humble servant and others here at The P&E for many years. While their statement carelessly labels it as the “Presidential Qualifications” clause . . . , they specifically recognize it as being an example of the primacy of self-executing constitutional provisions.

And while the USSC has thus far displayed spectacular indifference to addressing and resolving the issue of what the Founders intended and meant when adopting the “natural born Citizen” (“nbC”) restriction in the Constitution, the fact that even Sotomayor, Kagan and Jackson recognize the self-executing nature of the Eligibility Clause is a significant step in the right direction. If and/or when the Court decides it can no longer “evade” the nbC issue and actually accepts a case involving the issue, rest assured, the “Sotomayor/Kagan/Jackson protest” statement will be referenced.
:brickwallsmall:

Of course, SCOTUS can't hear a case if no one files one.

* Concurrence:
Section 5 gives Congress the “power to enforce [the Amendment] by appropriate legislation.” Remedial legislation of any kind, however, is not required. All the Reconstruction Amendments (including the due process and equal protection guarantees and prohibition of slavery) “are self-executing,” meaning that they do not depend on legislation. City of Boerne v. Flores, 521 U. S. 507, 524 (1997); see Civil Rights Cases, 109 U. S. 3, 20 (1883). Similarly, other constitutional rules of disqualification, like the two-term limit on the Presidency, do not require implementing legislation. See, e.g., Art. II, §1, cl. 5 (Presidential Qualifications); Amdt. 22 (Presidential Term Limits). Nor does the majority suggest otherwise.
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bob
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#1358

Post by bob »

P&E: The Obama Fraud Still Matters, and It Always Will:
Bob68 wrote:My opinion of The Obama Fraud from observation over the years
:yawn:
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realist
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#1359

Post by realist »

bob wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:27 am P&E: The Obama Fraud Still Matters, and It Always Will:
Bob68 wrote:My opinion of The Obama Fraud from observation over the years
:yawn:
:crazy:
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#1360

Post by bob »

P&E Report: Rubio Floated as VP Pick:
At approximately 2:41 PM EDT Thursday, Fox News’s “America Reports” co-anchor John Roberts, in an interview with third-term Florida Sen. Marco Rubio (R), remarked to Rubio that he is on the “short list” of vice-presidential choices of 2024 Republican presidential presumptive nominee Donald J. Trump.

* * *

In 2015 Rubio launched his own presidential campaign but withdrew following the Florida March primary, endorsing Trump the following month. Trump would go on to win the White House in what many considered to be an upset over Democrat candidate Hillary Clinton.

At the time, many in The Post & Email‘s readership questioned Rubio’s eligibility as per the “natural born Citizen” requirement in Article II, Section 1, clause 5 of the U.S. Constitution.
"Many in The Post & Email‘s readership" means "all three."
At 3:32 p.m., in a discussion with former White House senior adviser Kellyanne Conway and former Hillary Clinton adviser Philippe Reines, “The Story” anchor Martha MacCallum again raised the possibility of Rubio’s vice-presidential candidacy with a specific reference to the fact that he “comes from the same state” as Trump.

Conway responded by stating that to avoid that pitfall, Rubio could change his voter registration, as Dick Cheney had in July 2000 prior to being named George W. Bush’s running-mate. Rubio could re-register as a voter in “Michigan,” “Pennsylvania” or some other state, Conway suggested, though she acknowledged he would have to relinquish his Senate seat if that took place.

As with virtually all political commentators, Conway has not acknowledged the “natural born Citizen” question in regard to Rubio or any other presidential or vice-presidential candidate, stating in an earlier Fox News appearance that the requirement is “U.S. citizen.”
When you've lost Kellyanne....
Some reports say Vivek Ramaswamy, who suspended his presidential campaign in January following a poor showing in the Iowa caucuses, is also on Trump’s short list; his birth circumstances mirror those of Rubio’s.

Former South Carolina Governor and former 2024 Republican presidential candidate Nikki Haley is also frequently reported to be in contention. However, both surrogates and Trump himself claim Haley is not under consideration.

During the final weeks of her campaign, Haley said she was not interested in the prospect of becoming a vice-presidential candidate.
Who are these woefully wrong "some reports"?
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northland10
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The dregs of birther remainders.

#1361

Post by northland10 »

Please, please, please let Turnip pick somebody with an immigrant or not citizen parent. I want to watch heads explode.
101010 :towel:
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Suranis
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#1362

Post by Suranis »

bob wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 8:09 pm "Many in The Post & Email‘s readership" means "all three."
Well, you are part of "The Post & Email‘s readership." :twisted:
Hic sunt dracones
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noblepa
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#1363

Post by noblepa »

northland10 wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 11:24 pm Please, please, please let Turnip pick somebody with an immigrant or not citizen parent. I want to watch heads explode.
I agree with you. That would be lots of fun.

However, if he selects one of those, I predict absolute silence from his base.
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