Religious Threadjacks

[RTH10260]

Does this mean Atheists and Muslims and _____________ <fill in the blank> are automagickally connected to their invisible maker in the skies, or each to their own copy of the maker

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

Beautiful! I have a friend who converted from Methodism to Judaism. She will love this.

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

Does this mean Atheists and Muslims and _____________ <fill in the blank> are automagickally connected to their invisible maker in the skies, or each to their own copy of the maker

Atheists like moi and like Buddhists have no creator god.

[Suranis]

Uh, the world does not change depending on your beliefs. Your beliefs don't change whether you have a creator God or not.

And sorry that a simple meditation on the Name given in the Mosaic Texts sounding like Breathing has you all suddenly offended. Yes, the name of God can be used in meditation. I thought it was interesting.

"Whether you believe in God or not does not matter so much, whether you believe in Buddha or not does not matter so much; as a Buddhist, whether you believe in reincarnation or not does not matter so much. You must lead a good life. And a good life does not mean just good food, good clothes, good shelter. These are not sufficient. A good motivation is what is needed: compassion, without dogmatism, without complicated philosophy; just understanding that others are human brothers and sisters and respecting their rights and human dignity.” - Dali lama

And anyway, some Buddhists DO have a creator god. Its a major schism in Buddhism that the Dali Lama is trying to get rid of. Plus there are very creator God concepts in wider Buddhism, which westerners dong like to talk about as that spoils the Marketing of Buddhism as a trendy Religion without a God. Uh, no.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creator_in_Buddhism

► Show Spoiler

Mahayana and theism

Mahayana Buddhist traditions have more complex Buddhologies, which often contain a figure variously termed the Eternal Buddha, "Supreme Buddha", the One Original Buddha, or Adi-Buddha (primordial Buddha or first Buddha).[41][42]

Mahayana buddhology and theism

Mahayana Buddhist interpretations of the Buddha as a supreme being, which is eternal, all-compassionate, and existing on a cosmic scale, have been compared to theism by various scholars. For example, Guang Xing describes the Mahayana Buddha as an omnipotent and almighty divinity "endowed with numerous supernatural attributes and qualities".[43] In Mahayana, a fully awakened Buddha (such as Amitābha) is held to be omniscient as well as having other qualities, such as infinite wisdom, an immeasurable life, and boundless compassion.[44] In East Asian Buddhism, Buddhas are often seen as also having eternal life.[45] According to Paul Williams, in Mahayana, a Buddha is often seen as "a spiritual king, relating to and caring for the world".[46]

Various authors, such as F. Sueki, Douglas Duckworth, and Fabio Rambelli, have described Mahayana Buddhist views using the term "pantheism" (the belief that God and the universe are identical).[47][48][49] Similarly, Geoffrey Samuel has compared Tibetan Buddhist Buddhology with the related view of panentheism.[50]

Duckworth draws on positive Mahayana conceptions of buddha-nature, which he explains as a "positive foundation" and "a pure essence residing in temporarily obscured sentient beings".[49] He compares various Mahayana interpretations of Buddha-nature (Tibetan and East Asian) with a pantheist view that sees all things as divine and that "undoes the duality between the divine and the world".[49] In a similar fashion, Eva K. Neumaier compares Mahayana Buddha-nature teachings that point to a source of all things with the theology of Nicholas of Cusa (1401–1464), who described God as an essence and the world as a manifestation of God.[51]

José Ignacio Cabezón notes that while Mahayana sources reject a universal creator God that stands apart from the world, as well as any single creation event for the entire universe, Mahayanists do accept "localized" creation of specific worlds by the Buddhas and bodhisattvas as well as the idea that any world is jointly created by the collective karmic forces of all the beings who reside in them.[52] Buddha-created worlds are termed "Buddha-fields" (or "pure lands"), and their creation is seen as a key activity of the Buddhas and bodhisattvas.[52]

Much comparative work has also been done on Mahayana Buddhist thought and Whiteheadian process theology. Scholars who have worked in this include Jay B. McDaniel, John B. Cobb, Jr., David R. Griffin, Vincent Shen, John S. Yokota, Steve Odin, and Linyin Gu.[53][54][55][56][57][58][59] Some of these figures have also been involved in Buddhist–Christian dialogue.[54][55] Cobb sees many affinities with the Buddhist ideas of emptiness and not-self and Whitehead's view of God. He has incorporated these into his own process theology.[60] In a similar fashion, some Buddhist thinkers, like Dennis Hirota and John S. Yokota, have developed Buddhist theologies that draw on process theology.[61]

East Asian Buddhism and theism

In Huayan Buddhism, the supreme Buddha Vairocana is seen as the "cosmic Buddha", with an infinite body that comprises the entire universe and whose light penetrates every particle in the cosmos.[62] According to a religious pamphlet from Tōdai-ji temple in Japan (the headquarters of Japanese Huayan), "Vairocana Buddha exists everywhere and every time in the Universe, and the Universe itself is his body. At the same time, the songs of birds, the colors of flowers, the currents of streams, the figures of clouds—all these are the sermon of Buddha".[63] However, Francis Cook argues that Vairocana is not a god, nor has the functions of a monotheistic god, since he is not a creator of the universe, nor a judge or father who governs the world.[64]

Thích Nhất Hạnh, meanwhile, has written that the idea of the Buddha's "cosmic body", who is both the cosmos and its creator, "is very close to the idea of God in the theistic religions".[65] Similarly, Lin Weiyu writes that the Huayan school interprets Vairocana as "omnipresent, omnipotent and identical to the universe itself".[66] According to Lin, the Huayan commentator Fazang's conception of Vairocana contains "elements that approach Vairocana to the monotheistic God".[66] However, Lin also notes that this Buddha is contained within a broader Buddhist metaphysics of emptiness, which tempers the reification of this Buddha as a monotheistic creator god.[66]

The Shingon Buddhist view of the Supreme Buddha Mahāvairocana, whose body is seen as being the whole universe, has also been called "cosmotheism" (the idea that the cosmos is God) by scholars like Charles Eliot, Hajime Nakamura, and Masaharu Anesaki.[67][68][69] Fabio Rambelli terms it a kind of pantheism, the main doctrine of which is that Mahāvairocana's Dharma body is co-substantial with the universe and is the very substance that the universe consists of. Furthermore, this cosmic Buddha is seen as making use of all the sounds, thoughts, and forms in the universe to preach the Buddha's teaching to others. Thus, all forms, thoughts, and sounds in the universe are seen as manifestations and teachings of the Buddha.[70]

Tantric Adi-Buddha theory and theism

B. Alan Wallace writes on how the Tibetan Buddhist Vajrayana concept of the primordial Buddha (Adi-Buddha) is sometimes seen as forming the foundation of both saṃsāra (the world of suffering) and nirvana (liberation). This view, according to Wallace, holds that "the entire universe consists of nothing other than displays of this infinite, radiant, empty awareness."[71]

Furthermore, Wallace notes similarities between these Vajrayana doctrines and notions of a divine creative "ground of being". He writes: "a careful analysis of Vajrayana Buddhist cosmogony, specifically as presented in the Atiyoga (Dzogchen) tradition of Indo-Tibetan Buddhism, which presents itself as the culmination of all Buddhist teachings, reveals a theory of a transcendent ground of being and a process of creation that bear remarkable similarities with views presented in Vedanta and Neoplatonic Western Christian theories of creation."[72] He further comments that the three views "have so much in common that they could almost be regarded as varying interpretations of a single theory".[72]

Douglas Duckworth sees Tibetan tantric Buddhism as "pantheist to the core", since "in its most profound expressions (e.g., highest Yoga tantra), all dualities between the divine and the world are radically undone". According to Duckworth, in Vajrayana, "the divine is seen within the world, and the infinite within the finite."[73]

Eva K. Neumaier-Dargyay notes that the Dzogchen tantra called the Kunjed Gyalpo ("all-creating king") uses symbolic language for the Adi-Buddha Samantabhadra, which is reminiscent of theism.[29] Neumaier-Dargyay considers the Kunjed Gyalpo to contain theistic-sounding language, such as positing a single "cause of all that exists" (including all Buddhas). However, she also writes that this language is symbolic and points to an impersonal "ground of all existence", or primordial basis, which is "the mind of perfect purity" that underlies all that exists.[51]

Alexander Studholme also points to how the Kāraṇḍavyūhasūtra presents the great bodhisattva Avalokiteśvara as a kind of supreme lord of the cosmos and as the progenitor of various heavenly bodies and divinities (such as the Sun and Moon, the deities Shiva and Vishnu, etc.)[74] Avalokiteśvara himself is seen, in the versified version of the sutra, to be an emanation of the first Buddha, the Adi-Buddha, who is called svayambhu (self-existent, not born from anything or anyone) and the "primordial lord" (Adinatha).[75]

[RTH10260]

And sorry that a simple meditation on the Name given in the Mosaic Texts sounding like Breathing has you all suddenly offended. Yes, the name of God can be used in meditation. I thought it was interesting.

where did you get that from?

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

I wasn't offended by your post. I thought it was beautiful and shared it with others. I was explaining to RTH that some atheists and some Buddhists do not believe in a creator god. Of course, your point of there being a creator god whether I believe it or not, is well taken. I understand your viewpoint and am not criticizing it.

[Foggy]

YHWH really stands for "Yeah, well." The baby looks around right after being born, realizing how much trouble she's in, no matter what her beginning circumstances. But, considering the lack of alternatives, she resigns herself to spending (another?) stretch of time on this little godforsaken planet, and so she sighs and says, "Yeah, well."

I paid $10 to be a licensed minister, and it really pays off for me.

[MN-Skeptic]

Speaking the name of God reminds me of a thought I had re evolution and the age of the universe.

Ancient man attempted to describe the origins of the universe. In the Bible, it was described through a six-day period of creation. Some people take that very literally. Maybe angels did appear to ancient man to give a basic overview of how the universe came into being, maybe man devised that on his own. Either way, it was man who set the words down on paper and was ultimately responsible for what it portrayed.

However!... God has also written history into every atom, every molecule, every item of being and not-being. We learn about the origins of the universe and about evolution by studying God's creation. It's sort of like going to the source instead of looking at man's interpretation. So which has higher credibility? I would think that using the science God devised to study God's creation.

Just my 2 cents.

[Suranis]

Sorry guess Im used to being attacked.

[Sam the Centipede]

In the late 1980s, my ex-wife and I met an elderly Chinese gentleman in a restaurant in NYC's Chinatown (it may have been Sey Ohm Lok - Cantonese for 4-5-6). He was a soldier during the Sino-Japanese War in the 1930s and 1940s. At one point, his unit was trapped and starving, and he ended up eating part of one of his dead compatriots. He relayed that humans taste like lamb/goat. Not sure if he was telling the truth, but it was one odd conversation.

Please do not move that post to the "Food but not recipes" thread.

[Foggy]

God has also written history into every atom, every molecule, every item of being and not-being. We learn about the origins of the universe and about evolution by studying God's creation. It's sort of like going to the source instead of looking at man's interpretation. So which has higher credibility? I would think that using the science God devised to study God's creation.

Just my 2 cents.

There's a smiley for that, and I agree.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I'm no Christian, but something/someone created the Universe, and there's a reason why protons and molecules and planets all exist. I lean toward teleological explanations, until I realize I'm super-anthropomorphizing.

Sorry guess Im used to being attacked.

Even worser I'm used to trying to be humorous and falling like a lead led balloon zeppelin.

[pipistrelle]

Even worser I'm used to trying to be humorous and falling like a lead led balloon zeppelin.

Zeppelins burst into flame first before the stairway to heaven.

[Volkonski]

Germany: Catholic churches are demolished or repurposed

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-catholic- ... a-68300577

In the northern German city of Kiel, five Catholic churches have recently closed their doors. The majority of the 240,000 inhabitants of the state capital of Schleswig-Holstein are Protestants. It is largely due to financial hardships that Catholic churches are in decline. The entire city of Kiel is now one large parish with just a few churches. Some buildings have already disappeared to make way for housing. Although the Church of the Holy Cross in the district of Kiel-Elmschenhagen is still standing, it has been shuttered.

On November 19, 2022, the Church of the Holy Cross, the only Catholic church in the district, was formally deconsecrated and subsequently closed — despite opposition from Rüdiger Kirkskothen and other parishioners.

"All our protests failed," the 79-year-old Kirkskothen told DW. "We even wrote to the Vatican. That didn't help either."

Kirkskothen said that the closure of their house of worship hit local families hard. Immigrants built the church in 1956 and founded the congregation. "Their children witnessed their parents' devotion, got baptized and took communion there. For them, it was simply home," he said, adding that he understands the bitterness and disappointment.

When the church closed in the nearby Baltic seaside resort of Schönberg, the community "almost completely fell apart," said Kirkskothen. More than a few Catholics in Schönberg left the church entirely. At the moment, the Archdiocese of Hamburg is also closing several churches in the Baltic Sea city of Lübeck and trying to foster more dialog with local members.

Some parts of Germany have lost a particularly large number of churches over the past two decades, such as in the archdiocese of Hamburg, which includes Kiel. The number of closures is exceptionally high in Kiel. In response to an inquiry from DW, the secretariat of the German Bishops' Conference explained that 650 Catholic churches have "ceased to be used for worship" nationally since 2005, speaking or a "veritable wave of secularization." From 2019 to 2023, an average of 28 churches were lost each year across Germany.

[Suranis]

https://www.detroitcatholic.com/news/th ... 0with%20St

The history of Detroit Catholics' muskrat-eating tradition: And yes, it's still a thing

Joe Boggs
Apr 12, 2019
History
Print
The tradition of eating muskrat during Lent began in the 1780s, when French Catholics from Detroit moved south to establish homesteads in what now is known as Michigan's Downriver region. To survive the harsh winters, trappers and hunters ate muskrat, a tradition that continues with St. Charles Borromeo's annual muskrat dinner in February.

St. Charles Borromeo men's club has kept delicacy on the menu with annual dinner dating to 1966

NEWPORT — “I think it tastes like rabbit.”

“Similar to garlic roast beef.”

“It tastes like chicken.”

Parishioners at St. Charles Borromeo in Newport are not talking about duck, goose, or even deer meat. They are describing the taste of muskrat. It turns out that an appetite for this critter has developed over the course of centuries.

Monroe County’s culinary connection to this waterborne rodent began in the 1780s, when French Catholics traversed south from Detroit and established new homes in the area. Residing in a vast wilderness, trappers and hunters counted on the wildlife teeming in the region’s streams and rivers.

Nevertheless, harsh winters that extended into February and March made life difficult for the settlers. Foodstuffs stored up from the fall harvest were often depleted by then, and thick ice covering local waterways made fishing difficult. Historical sources from the early 1800s attest to the fact that local residents were sometimes in a state of starvation, eating chopped hay for sustenance and appealing to the government for federal funds to purchase flour.

Often the only food left to consume was the meat of livestock, roaming deer, or the numerous muskrats lingering along the riverbanks. However, Lenten requirements at that time strongly encouraged Monroe County’s Catholic community to abstain from meat for the entirety of Lent, not just on Ash Wednesday and every Friday. As tradition has it, it was during these early years of the 19th century that the humble pastor of Ste. Anne Parish in Detroit, Fr. Gabriel Richard, lobbied for a special dispensation to the region’s residents to consume muskrat throughout the Lenten season. Fr. Richard frequently served as a missionary priest to Monroe County’s Catholics, and he would have experienced firsthand their food-related problems.

Tradition has it that Detroit St. Anne pastor Fr. Gabriel Richard lobbied for the original dispensation for eating muskrat for southeastern Michigan Catholics during the early 1800s.
St. Charles Borromeo Parish in Newport has the longest-running muskrat dinner in the region, hosting a well-attended meal in February for the past 53 years.

This unique dispensation cemented southeast Michigan’s rodent-eating reputation. Ever since, muskrat dinners became a common occurrence both in the Downriver area and Monroe County. St. Charles Borromeo in Newport has the longest, continuously running muskrat dinner in the region, which has taken place for the past 53 years on the Friday before Super Bowl Sunday.

Yet, the history of the muskrat dinner at St. Charles extends even further into the past. In 1913, Fr. Tobias Morin and St. Charles parishioners initiated an annual dinner to raise money for the construction of a school on the parish property. Just a few years later in 1919, a Monroe Evening News article indicated that 400 people attended the dinner, and it wasn't just St. Charles parishioners feasting on rodent. Monroe, Wyandotte and River Rouge residents descended upon the faithful farming village to enjoy a plate of muskrat. The “delicious” dinner was prepared by “one of the best chefs in Berlin Township,” Charles Boumia. After dinner, spouses, friends, and visitors danced the night away as Stone’s Orchestra — a well-known Detroit big band — set the festive mood with their ragtime tunes.

At some point in the early 20th century, St. Charles’ muskrat dinner faded into obscurity and stopped all together. Yet, funding concerns once again challenged the Newport Catholic community. By the mid-1960s, St. Charles’ athletic programs and equipment had fallen into mismanagement and disrepair. In order to raise money for the parish’s student-athletes, members of the St. Charles Dad’s Club decided to resurrect the historic dinner in 1966.

Jimmy Brancheau, Alvie Reaume and other lifelong parishioners led the trapping efforts in the area’s creeks and wetlands. Mike Flint, a member of the Dad’s Club more than 50 years ago, helped organize and fry the muskrats for the inaugural dinner. Flint recalls that the first few were small affairs. “We had just 100 men for the first one, then it was just a bit more the next year,” Flint remembers. “Tickets for the second dinner were just $2 a person.”

Half a century later, St. Charles now serves more than 900 plates of muskrat at its annual dinner. Flint attests to the fact that the rodents are prepared today just as they were in 1967. The traditional three-day process is being handed down to the next generation of St. Charles parishioners.

“First on Wednesday, you have to clean them and take off all of the fat, then the musk has to be taken out of the back legs,” Flint explains.

After that initial round of cleaning, the rodents are salted and put on ice. Bart Fleming — a second-generation St. Charles muskrat cook — states that the rodents are cleaned two more times, once on Thursday night and again on the Friday morning of the dinner. The muskrats are finally parboiled with onion, spices and celery and later fried in a pan.

Priests and religious brothers often attend the annual St. Charles muskrat dinner, which serves more than 900 plates of muskrat in early February each year.

Beginning in the 1990s, Flint began to fret about the future of the muskrat dinner. It was around that time some of the men who attended those first dinners began to pass away.

“I was worried that in a few decades the 20-year-olds and 30-year-olds were going to not like the taste ... who was going to eat this stuff?” Flint asked himself.

Apparently God had other plans. Tickets to the muskrat dinner are now hard to come by, and the younger generations of Monroe County’s Catholics are buying up a significant proportion of them. Regardless of age, hundreds of men filter into the gym each year in early February to play card games of euchre, drink a couple beers, and take a bite of history. Like in years past, dinner attendees are helping out the St. Charles community. More than $10,000 was raised from the dinner earlier this year, which will be used to cover the expenses of St. Charles’ student-athletes, and the remainder will be used for other faith-based charitable causes.

And to think, all of this is due to the consumption of an amphibious rodent. God must have a sense of humor.

Smothered muskrat and onions

1 muskrat
1 tablespoon plus 1 ½ teaspoon salt; more to taste
1 quart water
½ cup flour
¼ teaspoon paprika
Three teaspoons fat
Three large onions, sliced
Pepper to taste
1 cup sour cream

Skin and clean muskrat, removing fat, scent glands and white tissue. Soak the muskrat overnight in a brine solution of 1 tablespoon salt to the water. Drain, disjoint and cut up the muskrat.

Put flour, 1 ½ teaspoons of salt and paprika in a bag, add muskrat pieces, and shake until the pieces are well-coated. Melt fat in a heavy frying pan, add the muskrat pieces, and sauté until browned. Then add onions, sprinkle with salt and pepper, and pour sour cream over the meat. Cover and simmer for an hour.

This recipe appears in “The Northern Cookbook,” from the Ministry of Supply and Services of Canada and was published in a 2007 article in The Michigan Catholic newspaper.

Can Detroit-area Catholics eat muskrat on Lenten Fridays?

According to a 2007 article in The Michigan Catholic newspaper (Detroit Catholic's predecessor), it's complicated.

According to that article, “The Archdiocese of Detroit’s communications department said there is a standing dispensation for Catholics downriver to eat muskrat on Fridays, although no documentation of the original dispensation could be found. However, a 2002 archdiocesan document on Lenten observances, in addition to outlining the laws of fasting and abstinence, explains that “there is a long-standing permission — dating back to our missionary origins in the 1700s — to permit the consumption of muskrat on days of abstinence, including Fridays of Lent.”

However, an earlier column (written in 1987) by Lansing Bishop Kenneth Povish disputed that, writing that “according to a Detroit archdiocese spokesperson, 'no dispensation was ever given to allow Catholics to eat muskrat on Fridays.' He referred to what he called the 'Great Interdiocesan Doctrinal Debate' of 1956, during which he determined that although muskrat is a warm-blooded mammal and technically flesh, the custom had been so long held along Michigan’s rivers and marshes that it was 'immemorial custom,' thus allowed by Canon Law.”

In any case, the bishop's personal distaste for the rodent led him to famously quip that “anyone who could eat muskrat was doing penance worthy of the greatest of the saints.”

I also found out tonight that Catholics in Venesuala commonly eat the Capybara during Lent. And in some places Catholics eat Alligators.

All I can say to all that is "cool!"

[neonzx]

https://www.detroitcatholic.com/news/th ... 0with%20St

The history of Detroit Catholics' muskrat-eating tradition: And yes, it's still a thing

[Uninformed]

“West Bengal: Indian zoo ordered to change lions’ 'blasphemous' names”:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-68378060

“An Indian court has ordered a zoo in West Bengal state to change the names of two lions after a hardline Hindu group complained it hurt their religious sentiments.
The lioness was named after Hindu deity Sita while the lion was called Akbar, after the 16th Century Mughal ruler.”

‘"You could have named it Bijli [lightning] or something like that. But why give names such as Akbar and Sita?" Justice Saugata Bhattacharya asked.
The court also asked if it would be prudent to name pets, including dogs, after people. "You could've avoided a controversy," the judge said.’

[Rolodex]

So, I'm a Christian - but not "that" kind. And I have a particular fascination with the intersection of religion and politics, esp since the turnip brought out the real crazies who are all too happy to put that crazy on display. I mean, I'm in the most conservative part of the bible belt of Alabama, but hoo boy have I learned a lot in the last couple of years.

Lots of ink spilled lately (or bytes, I guess, digitally-speaking) about white Christian nationalists, the New Apostolic Reform folks, 7 Mountains, etc. Today Teri Gross had on a guest who's written a book about all this. He himself was a christian nationalist but has repudiated that. His discussion on the show gives a really good explanation of the question: why do people who call themselves Christian* support someone like turmp whose life is the very antithesis of Christ?


*I'm of the opinion that there are different sects of Christians; so, the "not a real Christian" or "fake Christian" doesn't really resonate with me any more. People have their own idea of what a "Christian" is and someone whose idea is different from another's will see the other as a "fake" Christian (plenty of liberals are liberal because they are Christians, but right wingers call that an abomination because of their version of Christianity). My personal belief is that some people follow the Bible (inerrentists/literalists/young earth people) and some people endeavor to follow what Jesus actually said about how to treat people.

Anyway that's way too much in this post, but this Fresh Air episode is really worth a listen (yes I had to sit in the driveway to finish listening LOL) and I'm going to buy his book and subscribe to his podcast.

[RTH10260]

TX a short

[keith]

Sorry guess Im used to being attacked.

Please try to grok that attack and disagreement are two entirely different things.

[poplove]

Polygamous Mormon Sect Is Actually a Sex Trafficking Cult: Lawsuit

https://www.thedailybeast.com/polygamou ... lt-lawsuit

[AndyinPA]

A & E is actually currently running a series on this, Monday 10 PM EST.

[Suranis]

St Augustine of Hippo talking about our times.

https://www.worldhistory.org/article/91 ... f-genesis/

St. Augustine: from The Literal Meaning of Genesis
by Joshua J. Mark
published on 18 January 2012

Saint Augustine of Hippo (354-430 CE) most famous for his work Confessions and his City of God, is regarded as one of the Fathers of The Church in the tradition of Catholicism. In this brief essay from his The Literal Meaning of Genesis, Augustine denounces Christians who speak on subjects they know little or nothing about in an attempt to appear `wise' among non-Christians. In this work, Augustine echoes and expands upon the sentiment of the biblical author of the Christian New Testament Book of James who wrote, “If any man among you seem to be religious and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain” (James 1:26) and “Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold how great a matter a little fire kindleth”(James 3:5). The piece is interesting on many levels but, certainly, for an understanding of how early Christians viewed non-Christians and how they were instructed to comport themselves among those outside of the Christian faith.

“Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience.

Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men.

If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion."

[poplove]

Grant v. Kingston is the title of the polygamous Mormon sect sex trafficking lawsuit. It's now on Courtlistener. Here's the 139 page complaint:

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/68 ... -kingston/

[RTH10260]

No twerking. No drinking. No smoking. But it’s still a party at this Christian nightclub

By The Associated Press, Luis Andres Henao and Jessie Wardarski
Published: Mar. 4, 2024 at 10:09 PM CET

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — The young crowd at a Nashville nightclub was ready to dance under the strobe lights to a throbbing mix of hip-hop, rap and Latin beats. But first they gathered to pray and praise God.

The rules were announced on the dance floor by a mic-carrying emcee to more than 200 clubgoers blanketed by thick smoke machine fog: “Rule No. 1: No twerking. Second rule: No drinking. And a third rule: No smoking.” The last unspoken rule seemed obvious by then: No secular music — the playlist would be all Christian.

Welcome to The Cove.

The pop-up, 18-and-up Christian nightclub was launched last year by seven Black Christian men in their 20s — among them an Ivy League-educated financial analyst, musicians and social media experts — who sought to build a thriving community and a welcoming space for young Christians outside houses of worship. The launch comes at a post-pandemic time of dwindling church attendance, especially among Black Protestants that surveys say is unmatched by any other major religious group.

“We ourselves experienced a pain point of not being able to find community outside of our church, not knowing what to do to have fun without feeling bad for doing stuff that’s conflicting to our values,” said Eric Diggs, The Cove’s 24-year-old CEO.

“There wasn’t a space to cultivate that. So, we created it ourselves out of that pain point — the loneliness, the anxiety, depression, COVID, and the long quarantine.

PROVING THAT CHRISTIANS CAN BE COOL — NOT CORNY

Before their first monthly party in November, they set an ambitious goal: get 1,000 followers on social media. “We ended up getting more than 10,000 followers before our first event, which was insane,” said Eric’s brother, Jordan Diggs, 22, who manages the club’s social media presence.

“Christians get a rep for being corny. And we want to show that Christians can be normal, can be cool. And they can have fun.”

A second equally popular event was timed to ring in the New Year. A third was held in February.



https://www.live5news.com/2024/03/04/no ... nightclub/

[poplove]