State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization

[realist]

Should mention probably that that likelihood, if it is one. Is waaaay down the road. If he’s able to post bond, then it will be while before the appeals are done, and then. Maybe.

With these judgments, however, it certainly will impact his financial status. But hey, I’m sure Ivanka can persuade her hubby to persuade the Saudis to cough up a billion bucks or so. Pocket change to them.

[RTH10260]

MTN Michael Popok discusses the chances of the former guy's appeal chances and laughs at statement that Habba makes in interviews

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

Popok mentions the bond as $500 million.

[sugar magnolia]

Is it en-GOR-on or EN-gor-on? I've heard it both ways.

[p0rtia]

Is it en-GOR-on or EN-gor-on? I've heard it both ways.

en-GOR-on

[RTH10260]

Trump Rages Against Bombshell Fraud Judgment In Nighttime Rant — Tells Lie His OWN Agent Debunked

Tommy Christopher
Feb 20th, 2024, 7:37 am

As former President Donald Trump deals with the bombshell $350 million-plus fraud judgment against him, he ranted into the night about a long-debunked lie that was central to his defeat.

Trump spent months showing up to court to rant at reporters and make a spectacle of himself inside the courtroom during the trial in the fraud case brought by New York Attorney General Letitia James and presided over by Judge Arthur Engoron.

On Friday, all of those efforts culminated in a bombshell judgment that could cost him in excess of $460 million, including pretrial interest, and handcuffs his ability to do business in the state for three years.

Trump’s reaction has been a sustained stream of apoplexy that continued Monday night with a Truth Social rant that resurrected one of the lies that was key to that jaw-dropping disgorgement — the valuation of his Mar-a-lago resort. Trump wrote:




https://www.mediaite.com/news/trump-rag ... -debunked/

[Kendra]

Imagine the screams of protest if somehow the county was able to assess the property valuation at the numbers tfg is crying about.

[Rolodex]

Imagine the screams of protest if somehow the county was able to assess the property valuation at the numbers tfg is crying about.

Right? "Mr Trump, we're using the valuations you gave us for your property taxes when we start seizing your property. You may be losing more than you expected. Oh well."

[Kendra]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/21/politics ... index.html

Former President Donald Trump asked the judge overseeing the civil fraud case to delay enforcing the $355 million judgment against him for one month.

In a letter to Judge Arthur Engoron, Trump’s attorneys accuse New York Attorney General Letitia James of an “unseemly rush” to enforce the judgment by submitting a proposal for the judge to sign just days after the ruling.

Trump has 30 days from when a judgment is entered to post bond and appeal.

Last week, the judge ordered Trump to pay $355 million plus interest and imposed a three-year ban from acting as an officer of a New York business.

Trump’s attorney said if the judge decides to enter the attorney general’s judgment the defendants “request the Court stay enforcement of that Judgment for thirty (30) days. Given that the court-appointed monitor continues to be in place, there is no prejudice to the Attorney General in briefly staying enforcement to allow for an orderly post-Judgment process, particularly given the magnitude of Judgment.”

That's all there is at the link right now.

[AndyinPA]

I'd ask why he always asks for special treatment, but I already know.

[chancery]

https://twitter.com/lawofruby/status/17 ... 607284313

Lisa Rubin
@lawofruby
NEW: Trump's lawyers have asked Justice Engoron for time to submit a proposed counter-judgment even though it should be a relatively plain statement of the injunctive relief Engoron ordered plus some math to fill in the pre-judgment interest.

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef ... sZfKdEkQ==

https://twitter.com/lawofruby/status/17 ... 3649404958

Lisa Rubin
@lawofruby
NEW: Trump's lawyers, angry that Judge Engoron is apparently not going to allow motion practice on reducing his opinion to a formal judgment, demands a 30-day stay of any entered judgment instead. Shocked.

Lisa Rubin
@lawofruby
UPDATE: Judge Engoron tells Team Trump, via email, that they need to state specific objections to the AG's proposed judgment by 5 p.m. 2/

Lisa Rubin
@lawofruby

Team Trump flags one very real issue as to to the calculation of interest for Weisselberg, identifies some address changes for the affected companies, and then complains that if Engoron won't allow for motion practice, they should get a 30-day stay of the judgment. 3/

Here's Engoron's email: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef ... UPIsJHEg==

And Team Trump's letter demanding a stay: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef ... 3ndky1mg==

[chancery]

Trump's lawyers are, as usual, full of baloney.

Under New York procedure, the process of reducing a decision to a judgment or an order can happen fast, very fast, and often with no or minimal notice.

A decision and order can
(i) simply direct the clerk to prepare the judgment (or order) from the text of the decision, without involving the parties;
(ii) state "submit order," which directs the prevailing party to submit a proposed judgment that tracks the decision; "[t]his procedure typically calls for no notice to the opponent," Funk v. Berry, 89 N.Y.2d 364, 367 (1996); or
(iii) state "settle order," which directs the prevailing party to submit a proposed judgment or order on notice to the other side, which has five days to submit a counter-proposal.

Judge Engoron's decision concluded as follows: "ORDERED that the clerk hereby enter judgment accordingly," which on its face contemplated no involvement by the parties.

So Trump had no right to an ordinary motion procedure, or even to the accelerated notice provided in the "settle order" procedure.

If Trump's lawyers have issues that they want addressed in the form of judgment, they needed to get them on the record right away. The decision was entered on February 16. Because of the long weekend, Trump's lawyers had four days to make a submission, which is plenty of time in the context of the judgment settlement process of New York civil practice. That's exactly what the Attorney General's office did by submitting a proposal on the first business day after the decision was entered.

Whining about wanting thirty days to think it over without a compelling and detailed explanation why so much time is needed is unprofessional bullshit.

[Dr. Ken]

Spirit Halloween tower

[chancery]

NYAG letter responding to Trump's demand for a 30-day stay.

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef ... 2FtQGWog==

We write to respond briefly to Mr. Robert’s letter on behalf of Defendants objecting to Plaintiff’s proposed judgment (NYSCEF No. 1693). We agree that pre-judgment interest on the disgorgement amount against Allen Weisselberg should begin on January 9, 2023 (rather than May 11, 2022) as provided for in the Court’s Decision and Order After Non-Jury Trial (NYSCEF No. 1688) (“Decision”) – that was an inadvertent error. We disagree with the remaining points raised by Defendants. The Court’s Decision did not direct the parties to “settle judgment” so there was no need to confer in advance of submitting Plaintiff’s proposed judgment, and we are not aware of any provision of the CPLR (and Defendants do not cite to any) that requires the filing of a formal motion on notice to submit a proposed judgment for the Court’s review and approval. The “Conclusion and Order” section of the Decision on pages 91-92 sets forth in detail what is to be included in the judgment, leaving no room for further debate. Nor do Defendants provide any basis for staying enforcement of the judgment; indeed, they requested such relief in their post-trial brief (NYSCEF 1664 at ¶195), which the Court declined to grant. Finally, the Court should reject Defendants’ attempt to change the business address of six entity Defendants to Florida as the record establishes those entities are located in Trump Tower at 725 5th Avenue in New York, the office building in which the executives who carry out the business activities of those entities work. See NYSCEF No. 245 at 69-70 and referenced exhibits (NYSCEF Nos. 264, 268-271).

[Rolodex]

I get the forbidding of letting the six business entities from leaving the tower. But I have a more basic question: while Engoron walked it back a bit, allowing the businesses to continue - under the supervision of monitors - what does it really mean to not let him have businesses in NY? Does that mean entities that are chartered/licensed in NY have to cease to exist? What the actual practical definition of the so-called "death penalty" for his businesses as originally described? Can't collect rent from tenants? Can't buy or improve properties?

He doesn't really own totally much real estate, as I understand it. He's in partnerships where he has a low(ish) percentage stake. He has a lot of licensing agreements, where he throws his name on a bunch of stuff - do those agreements cease?

[RTH10260]

I get the forbidding of letting the six business entities from leaving the tower. But I have a more basic question: while Engoron walked it back a bit, allowing the businesses to continue - under the supervision of monitors - what does it really mean to not let him have businesses in NY? Does that mean entities that are chartered/licensed in NY have to cease to exist? What the actual practical definition of the so-called "death penalty" for his businesses as originally described? Can't collect rent from tenants? Can't buy or improve properties?

He doesn't really own totally much real estate, as I understand it. He's in partnerships where he has a low(ish) percentage stake. He has a lot of licensing agreements, where he throws his name on a bunch of stuff - do those agreements cease?

My understanding as an IANAL is that the T clan has to give up all board positions, just remain shareholders. Mabe even lose any meanial jobs they would still hold. I would assume that licensing deals done directly with the pensioneer from FL would stand, except they are structured thru the T org or a licensing subsidiary. The licensing will stand as long as the companies are not liquidated. In which case to the horror of the family their "brand" would be sold off to the highest bidder. IFF they still have money they may be able to buy it back with an entity residing elsewhere.

[roadscholar]

Vlad Putin could pay his orange lap-dog’s fine without breaking a sweat. But he won’t. In the immortal words of Ferris Beuhler:

“You can’t respect someone who kisses your ass.”

[Rolodex]

So, they asked for a stay. Engoron slaps that fly away.

[p0rtia]

Heard yesterday from one of the wise lawyers on some wise podcast or other--best guess, it was Popak from MTN.

Fuckhead will have a hell of a time finding anyone to post the bond for him, no matter what he puts up against it. Why? First of all, that's a hell of a lot of money. Second, because if he, Fuckhead, wins the election, whoever does the bond knows that they'll never ever in a month of Sundays get their money back.

Thoughts?

[poplove]

Heard yesterday from one of the wise lawyers on some wise podcast or other--best guess, it was Popak from MTN.

Fuckhead will have a hell of a time finding anyone to post the bond for him, no matter what he puts up against it. Why? First of all, that's a hell of a lot of money. Second, because if he, Fuckhead, wins the election, whoever does the bond knows that they'll never ever in a month of Sundays get their money back.

Thoughts?

I don't think they would get their money back regardless of the election.

[p0rtia]

Good point!

[pipistrelle]

What about Clarence Thomas's dear friend, Harlan Crowe?

[chancery]

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef ... KJQ3CxRA==

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef ... JWPGU46w==

This letter and the annexed exhibit submits recent email correspondence between Justice Engoron and Trump's counsel, in reverse chronological order. It includes the email quoted several posts upthread by Adam Klasfeld.

When parties correspond with a judge concerning significant matters by means other than documents filed on the docket, the correspondence isn't "on the record" for purposes of appeal. This can be a problem, the severity of which ranges from a nuisance to a catastrophic flaw in an argument on appeal. So it's normal good practice to make make a separate docketed submission putting the correspondence on the record.

[chancery]

"You have failed to explain, much less justify, any basis for a stay."

— Justice Engoron to the Trump family's lawyer

I'm still shaking my head at the failure of Trump's lawyers to state their concerns about the judgment and explain the kinds of relief they might want with respect to the NYAG's collection efforts.*

If the NYAG were to enforce the judgment against, say, 40 Wall Street, it would likely be a event of default under his loan agreement, and probably also a default on all of his big loans. Depending on the acceleration rights of the lenders, he might conceivably find himself in a position of having to pay off a number of big long-term loans in full and soon, a financial blow that could conceivably exceed the $450 billion he owes to the state of New York.

This will likely be the basis for a motion by Trump in the Appellate Division to stay enforcement of the judgment, on the grounds that enforcement will have consequences that can't be reversed if he prevails on appeal. Of course he would have to persuade the appellate court that he has strong grounds for appeal. He would also have to explain why he shouldn't be required to post a bond, which is the ordinary way a judgment debtor protects itself from the problem of being unable to unscramble the results of having its property seized if it later wins the appeal.

There are other issues as well. In general, and to simplify, a judgment creditor can execute against any property of the debtor, wherever and whenever the creditor can find it. However, the creditor doesn't have an unconditional right to impose collateral damage on the debtor's affairs beyond what is necessary to collect what is owed. So if the debtor tells the judge that he won't oppose execution on Properties A, B, and C, which will fully satisfy the judgment, the judge might find it equitable to order the creditor not to execute on Properties D through G, because of collateral consequences that would cause harm without being necessary for satisfaction of the judgment.

Of course, the devil is in the details, and the debtor would need to make a factual showing that was strong, scrupulously accurate, and completely candid, requirements that don't play to the strengths either of Trump or of his lawyers. Also, one of the factors a court will consider in deciding whether to grant this kind of extraordinary equitable relief is whether the debtor has acted very promptly in seeking relief.

Finally, generally speaking, an appellate court won't consider these kinds of requests for relief unless the debtor has first unsuccessfully made the same request to the trial court.

So it's puzzling why Trump's lawyers don't have their ducks in a row and don't seem to be able to explain why they want a stay or what kind of court intervention they intend to seek. Even if, as seems probable, their Plan A involves bankruptcy filings of some kind, delay is not their friend at this point.

This situation was completely predictable months ago. (Actually years ago: almost all of the significant factual evidence relied on by the judge was in the can by the time discovery closed.) Certainly immediately after Justice Engoron issued the partial summary judgement order in late September, Trump's lawyers should have engaged bankruptcy counsel and an investment banker to figure out a plan and have it ready to go weeks ago.

_______
* Judgment collection is hyper-technical, especially when it involves large sums and assets that are subject to multiple ownership rights and complex financial arrangements. I've never had to learn much about it. So take this discussion with a grain of salt.

[Dr. Ken]