Obesity and credibility

[DrIrvingFinegarten]

As someone who could stand to lose dozens of pounds, I’ve noticed something in my Twitter or X or whatever it is interactions. My profile photo does make it obvious that I can stand to lose that much weight and many people in political arguments point that out (as if I didn’t know. It’s been a lifelong struggle for me. I’ve lost and regained significant amounts of weight three times in my adult life). I’m sure these people are all Men’s Health cover models or at least those big guys with muscles who go up to Trump with tears in their eyes saying “Sir, sir…”
Now if I were offering diet or fitness advice I’d consider what they were saying to be relevant but how does obesity affect my credibility with other topics such as politics or current events? It seems to be a way, much like pronouns in the bio or a Ukrainian flag that makes these people think someone has “credibility issues “ and they could dismiss what someone says out of hand. I don’t have pronouns in my bio or a Ukrainian flag.
Of course, I’m still trying to get my weight under control for obvious health reasons But if I did lose a few pounds would it make me more credible?

[Slim Cognito]

No. It’s not your problem, society is effed up. Normal people who look like us like us just fine.

[Kriselda Gray]

I have the same struggles you do with my weight, though I've never had success losing any significant amount. :/

The problem is that being fat has been such a cause for insulting and degrading people for so long that most people just assume a fat person is a lesser being, thus open to ridicule and dismissal. For some, that's apparently enough, as they will insult fat people seemingly for the hel of it even if they have a good argument against your points. For others, it's something they can turn to if they don't have a rational or factual basis with which to counter your arguments. Since they can't defeat your logically, they have to demean you into silence.

Sadly, it's not just the right wingers who do that. I've seen more than my fair share of people ostensibly on the side of good putting people down for being fat when their size has no relevance whatsoever to the subject they're discussing.

[Maybenaut]

No. It’s not your problem, society is effed up. Normal people who look like us like us just fine.

Even normal people who don’t look like us like us just fine. Some people resort to ad hominem attacks when they can’t find fault with your argument. That doesn’t make it any less hurtful, though, so it’s tough to just shrug it off.

People are assholes.

[Suranis]

People in online arguments will generally focus on anything they deem as negative in order to avoid dealing with the actual arguments, if only because people are lazy and its easier to shove people in boxes for easy dismissal than think through the holes in what the other guy said. It could be your wight, hair colour, Stutter, what they assume is your current lack of sexual activity (i.e. "Incel!"), height, anything. Its called an "ad Hominem attack"

https://www.snopes.com/articles/419236/ ... ion=420845

Snopestionary: The 'Ad Hominem' Logical Fallacy

Logical fallacies are behind many of the harmful misunderstandings, rumors, and conspiracy theories our newsroom investigates.

Also known as the personal attack fallacy, ad hominem means "against the man." This type of logical fallacy is characterized by irrelevant name-calling or attacks on the person, their actions, or their character, instead of their argument.

Ad hominem can be directed at a person, a group, or an institution, and appeals to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect. This logical fallacy works by shifting the burden of proof in a dialogue so that instead of defending their argument, a debater must defend their personhood. The truth or falsity of a claim has nothing to do with the person arguing in support of or against it.

Example of ad hominem fallacy:

Person A makes Claim X Person B attacks the character or actions of Person A Therefore, Claim X is wrong

There are three subcategories to the ad hominem fallacy, which we have included below:

Tu quoque (Latin for "you also") is an attempt to discredit the argument by attacking the opponent's personal behavior and accusing them of committing the action being argued against.

Person A: Drinking alcohol is bad for brain development therefore you should not drink before a certain age.

Person B: You drank when you were my age! Therefore, I can do it too.

Appeal to authority is the reverse of ad hominem. This fallacy uses the credentials of another person to strengthen an argument. Though it doesn't criticize the person making the argument, appeal to authority does not directly address the argument at hand.

Person A: Albert Einstein was a genius and he did not believe in a personal god. Therefore, the Bible is bogus.

Argument from abuse targets the person making the argument and attacks their character so as to discredit their point.

Person A: We should turn the air conditioning off. It's not that hot outside and it'll save energy.

Person B: Of course you want to turn it off. You're so cheap.

Snopes says:

To combat or avoid these fallacious types of arguments, imagine writing the claim down as if you didn't know who was arguing the case. If you cannot prove or disprove the argument with evidence, then you may have been using ad hominem as a substitute for good reasoning.

Snopes has a good collection of seven articles on very common logical fallacies, all of which are worth reading through.

https://www.snopes.com/collections/logi ... explained/

[MsDaisy 2]

I tend to fall on the other side of this issue; I’ve always been fairly small. When I was little my mother use to stand over me with a belt and force me to eat, she use to say that a big wind was going to come along one day and blow my skinny ass away. I was never a big eater and then about a year after I had my hysterectomy in 2007 I lost my ability to eat anything sweet. Anything sweet I attempted to eat would just sour in my stomach. It was gross so I just quit eating anything sweet at all except fruit, it just wasn’t worth it. I’m not skin & bones though just a bit scrawny, my BMI is normal 22.3

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

Like the post, suranis!!!

MsDaisy - forcefeeding by belt threat!!!

[MsDaisy 2]

Like the post, suranis!!!

MsDaisy - forcefeeding by belt threat!!!

My mom wasn't exactly like most normal moms

[raison de arizona]

I tend to fall on the other side of this issue; I’ve always been fairly small. When I was little my mother use to stand over me with a belt and force me to eat, she use to say that a big wind was going to come along one day and blow my skinny ass away. I was never a big eater and then about a year after I had my hysterectomy in 2007 I lost my ability to eat anything sweet. Anything sweet I attempted to eat would just sour in my stomach. It was gross so I just quit eating anything sweet at all except fruit, it just wasn’t worth it. I’m not skin & bones though just a bit scrawny, my BMI is normal 22.3

Have you ever felt that your opinion was discounted due to your smaller size?

[Slim Cognito]

I tend to fall on the other side of this issue; I’ve always been fairly small. When I was little my mother use to stand over me with a belt and force me to eat, she use to say that a big wind was going to come along one day and blow my skinny ass away. I was never a big eater and then about a year after I had my hysterectomy in 2007 I lost my ability to eat anything sweet. Anything sweet I attempted to eat would just sour in my stomach. It was gross so I just quit eating anything sweet at all except fruit, it just wasn’t worth it. I’m not skin & bones though just a bit scrawny, my BMI is normal 22.3

Have you ever felt that your opinion was discounted due to your smaller size?

I can't speak for Ms Daisy, but I'm short, barely 5'. When I was young, I was thin and I had the worst time getting anyone to take me seriously. I've literally been waved away by people who were discussing something "important." That's how I developed my attitude. I was a struggling, single mother fighting to be heard and, by dog, I made sure I was heard. That's how I developed such a foul mouth. To this day, when I walk into a bar, ten minutes later, sailors come running out.

► Show Spoiler

Line shamelessly stolen from Samuel L Jackson in The Long Kiss Goodnight.

[MsDaisy 2]

I tend to fall on the other side of this issue; I’ve always been fairly small. When I was little my mother use to stand over me with a belt and force me to eat, she use to say that a big wind was going to come along one day and blow my skinny ass away. I was never a big eater and then about a year after I had my hysterectomy in 2007 I lost my ability to eat anything sweet. Anything sweet I attempted to eat would just sour in my stomach. It was gross so I just quit eating anything sweet at all except fruit, it just wasn’t worth it. I’m not skin & bones though just a bit scrawny, my BMI is normal 22.3

Have you ever felt that your opinion was discounted due to your smaller size?

Nope, I was born a Holloway, stubborn and hard headed with lots of attitude! Whenever my mother got pissed off at me for anything she'd always say "You hard headed Holloway thing you!" And my reply to that was always the same, I'd get a big grin on my face and say "Thank You!" That really pissed her off!

[Maybenaut]

Have you ever felt that your opinion was discounted due to your smaller size?

In my younger days I was thin but had really big boobs. I mean, REALLY, Really big. And I’m from Tennessee, so except for the big hair, I both looked and sounded like Dolly Parton. I might as well have had a sign over my head flashing BIMBO. It was the military in the early 1980s. Nobody took me seriously.

I worked hard to lose the southern accent, which helped. And I worked hard to promote, which also helped. But it wasn’t until I got a breast reduction that I felt like anyone listened to me.

People are assholes.

I

[HoperUp]

I was very scrawny and short as a kid and young adult. I always felt like I wasn't being taken seriously, people always made jokes about me, even friends but those jokes come from a better place (right??). On top of that I have baby face. When I was 27 people would assume I am 18 at most, the fact that I couldn't grow a beard didn't help.
I know it's on the other side of the topic but still, prejudice is still hard at work in this world

[johnpcapitalist]

Have you ever felt that your opinion was discounted due to your smaller size?

I can't speak for Ms Daisy, but I'm short, barely 5'. When I was young, I was thin and I had the worst time getting anyone to take me seriously. I've literally been waved away by people who were discussing something "important." That's how I developed my attitude. I was a struggling, single mother fighting to be heard and, by dog, I made sure I was heard.

A long time ago, in my early 20s, when I was struggling to figure out dating and relationships, a wise man once gave me some advice about women that has worked well.

He said, "never underestimate the small ones."

Big, hulking, overweight me has been in two long-term relationships with petite (5' 0" and 5 foot, 1 & 1/2 inches; she never omitted saying the "half") endurance athletes. They're beasts. And he was right.

It's not like women have the Napoleon complexes like some short men, which leads to all sorts of bad behavior, some of it comical. But they will notice that you don't take them seriously. They will make the effort to grind you down and run you over. They usually won't be mean-spirited and vengeful, my mentor said, but they will win.

[johnpcapitalist]

[H]ow does obesity affect my credibility with other topics such as politics or current events? It seems to be a way, much like pronouns in the bio or a Ukrainian flag that makes these people think someone has "credibility issues" and they could dismiss what someone says out of hand. I don’t have pronouns in my bio or a Ukrainian flag.

Of course, I’m still trying to get my weight under control for obvious health reasons But if I did lose a few pounds would it make me more credible?

Unfortunately, it will make you credible in the eyes of many. And not just online trolls.

Twenty years ago, I weighed 420 pounds. In mid-2003, I had one of those moments where I decided that living to a ripe old age was a major priority and I went on a massive campaign to lose weight. In a year and a half, I lost 170 pounds and have maintained that weight loss since.

At that point in my career, I typically would spend 1/3 of my time on the road seeing clients. Most of them I saw once a year; I principally dealt with them on the phone. I vividly recall the change in their reaction to me. There were three categories:

First, casual contact: I noticed that people in public used to look at me like I was in a wheelchair -- they would look towards me but would seem to look around me at the same time. Essentially, fake eye contact. Walking through airports after losing weight, I got real eye contact. This also happened in everyday situations, such as shopping. I did have one very negative experience where I was fat. I was in a very posh suburb and was looking to buy an expensive car. The sales guy kept asking whether I could afford it. I was dressed presentably, and cost was not an issue. I asked to talk to the general manager and reamed him and the sales guy out for discriminating against fat people. I certainly didn't buy the car from them.

Second, situations with customers and others at work, when they recognized that I had lost weight: I did get treated a lot better by people I had contact with. Immediate co-workers were about the same, but occasional contacts such as clients were very different. Most surprisingly, women treated me much better. There had always been a cold, invisible wall with many of the women I dealt with. That wasn't because I was hitting on them -- I was married and that was not my style. But many women who had been cold to me were notably warmer when I lost the weight, which typically would happen between one annual customer visit and the next. They were almost (but not quite) flirtatious. I was extremely resentful of that. I definitely learned to ignore "feminine wiles" when women tried to manipulate me in the future.

Third: there were some people that didn't recognize me the next time I saw them. I was able to riff on this and pull some funny pranks when I realized that they didn't connect the person in front of them with the old me. That didn't happen often, but it was a lot of fun when it did.

Bottom line: yes, people do treat you differently when you're fat. It's unpleasant and the world shouldn't work that way. I'm still a long way from being skinny but I have learned to be comfortable enough in my own skin at my advanced age that people take me seriously now. That confidence helps overcome the frequent social bias against my weight.

[NewMexGirl]

I learned my lesson about commenting/complimenting people on weight in July, 1976. The occasion is seared in my memory.

A friend I hadn’t seen in several months appeared at a party looking quite a bit thinner than when I had last seen her. I immediately said “how great” she looked. Her reply: “My kidneys are only functioning at 25% and I am on dialysis, waiting for a transplant.” Even just writing this small anecdote has me twitching in horror and embarrassment again, fifty years later.

[Estiveo]

I've been on the other end of that, having lost over 100 lbs from kidney failure, septic arthritis, and 3 months in the hospital.

I'll admit to a certain guilty pleasure responding to the you've lost weight comments with, "yeah, almost dying can do that sometimes."

[DrIrvingFinegarten]

[H]ow does obesity affect my credibility with other topics such as politics or current events? It seems to be a way, much like pronouns in the bio or a Ukrainian flag that makes these people think someone has "credibility issues" and they could dismiss what someone says out of hand. I don’t have pronouns in my bio or a Ukrainian flag.

Of course, I’m still trying to get my weight under control for obvious health reasons But if I did lose a few pounds would it make me more credible?

Unfortunately, it will make you credible in the eyes of many. And not just online trolls.

Twenty years ago, I weighed 420 pounds. In mid-2003, I had one of those moments where I decided that living to a ripe old age was a major priority and I went on a massive campaign to lose weight. In a year and a half, I lost 170 pounds and have maintained that weight loss since.

At that point in my career, I typically would spend 1/3 of my time on the road seeing clients. Most of them I saw once a year; I principally dealt with them on the phone. I vividly recall the change in their reaction to me. There were three categories:

First, casual contact: I noticed that people in public used to look at me like I was in a wheelchair -- they would look towards me but would seem to look around me at the same time. Essentially, fake eye contact. Walking through airports after losing weight, I got real eye contact. This also happened in everyday situations, such as shopping. I did have one very negative experience where I was fat. I was in a very posh suburb and was looking to buy an expensive car. The sales guy kept asking whether I could afford it. I was dressed presentably, and cost was not an issue. I asked to talk to the general manager and reamed him and the sales guy out for discriminating against fat people. I certainly didn't buy the car from them.

Second, situations with customers and others at work, when they recognized that I had lost weight: I did get treated a lot better by people I had contact with. Immediate co-workers were about the same, but occasional contacts such as clients were very different. Most surprisingly, women treated me much better. There had always been a cold, invisible wall with many of the women I dealt with. That wasn't because I was hitting on them -- I was married and that was not my style. But many women who had been cold to me were notably warmer when I lost the weight, which typically would happen between one annual customer visit and the next. They were almost (but not quite) flirtatious. I was extremely resentful of that. I definitely learned to ignore "feminine wiles" when women tried to manipulate me in the future.

Third: there were some people that didn't recognize me the next time I saw them. I was able to riff on this and pull some funny pranks when I realized that they didn't connect the person in front of them with the old me. That didn't happen often, but it was a lot of fun when it did.

Bottom line: yes, people do treat you differently when you're fat. It's unpleasant and the world shouldn't work that way. I'm still a long way from being skinny but I have learned to be comfortable enough in my own skin at my advanced age that people take me seriously now. That confidence helps overcome the frequent social bias against my weight.

Yes, I imagine a lot of people think “If he can’t figure out a way to keep a donut out of his mouth, what could he possibly know about anything?”’

The funny thing is, they point it out as if I don’t know. My usual response is something like “What an astute observation. Thanks for pointing that out. Maybe that’s why I didn’t get that fitness modeling job.”

I mean seriously, how could I not know? I’m not comfortable in my own skin. I take up enough room and move slowly enough that it inconveniences others. If I’m really in a bad mood I’ll sometimes say “Do I really take up that much room? “ or “Do I really walk that slowly?” Most people are too nice to say yes.

I know for my own quality and length of life this has to change. I try, but more often than not my love of food overcomes my desire and need to change. All I know is if it were easy nobody would be fat.

In a slight change of topic, why does a Ukrainian flag or pronouns in a bio mean someone lacks credibility? Someone told me a Ukrainian flag shows that a person lacks critical thinking skills. I don’t understand that. How is it true?

[Foggy]

It isn't.

[Maybenaut]

In a slight change of topic, why does a Ukrainian flag or pronouns in a bio mean someone lacks credibility? Someone told me a Ukrainian flag shows that a person lacks critical thinking skills. I don’t understand that. How is it true?

Well, duh. You express a viewpoint different from mine so you must be stupid. There’s no other explanation. You’d think a “Dr.” would be able to puzzle that out.

I am, of course, joking.

But I’ve had people use that “logic” on me.

[Phoenix520]

Yes, I imagine a lot of people think “If he can’t figure out a way to keep a donut out of his mouth, what could he possibly know about anything?”’

I think you just answered that question for yourself. I had two people come right out say that to me and I must have taken it too much to heart because I found myself buying into it for a short time. I’m a medium sized woman at this point in life. I’m 5’4” and at my heaviest I weighed 216. Im about 60# less now, kept it off for at least a decade. I don’t get attitude about my weight now.

[DrIrvingFinegarten]

Yes, I imagine a lot of people think “If he can’t figure out a way to keep a donut out of his mouth, what could he possibly know about anything?”’

I think you just answered that question for yourself. I had two people come right out say that to me and I must have taken it too much to heart because I found myself buying into it for a short time. I’m a medium sized woman at this point in life. I’m 5’4” and at my heaviest I weighed 216. Im about 60# less now, kept it off for at least a decade. I don’t get attitude about my weight now.

Nice job. Keeping it off is the hard part, the part I’ve yet to master.

[MN-Skeptic]

I’m a medium sized woman at this point in life. I’m 5’4” and at my heaviest I weighed 216. Im about 60# less now, kept it off for at least a decade. I don’t get attitude about my weight now.

You sound like me. I'm probably 5'4" now (I try to ignore the fact that, at age 70, I'm not the 5'5" I was in high school) and, at my heaviest recorded weight I was 233. In 2011 I was diagnosed with type II diabetes so I got serious about eating better and lost 70 pounds. At the beginning of the pandemic I was down 10 pounds from that, but regained it when I mostly stayed home. At the moment, I'm still down 66 pounds. Mostly I just have to avoid buying chips and candy at the grocery store. I would love to lose more before Christmas because I would so dearly love to buy new clothes in a smaller size! We'll see.