Coronavirus on a Personal Basis

[W. Kevin Vicklund]

Went in to urgent care so /i could get blood drawn to see if I'm safe to go on Paxlovid. Dr. Vicklund went with me and while she is still testing negative, they went ahead and got her blood drawn as well (she started showing symptoms today).

[Lani]

Covid is still going along. Mostly I hear from people who have an unhappy week, but not serious. John Hopkins isn't sending as much info these months. However, it has data that young peeps (teens to 21) can heart problems that arise after covid. I'm po'd that too many people don't taken care and don't take it seriously any more.

Jumping to another covid topic - recently I was at the hospital with another new doctor. Surprisingly, she starting talking to me about how horrible things were when the covid tsunami wave came in. Obviously, she was still suffering from what she saw. She talked about the huge number of pets that died. I told her about Ted and LTP. Ted had proper medication, but the vet didn't think it was related to covid. (Later I emailed him a medical article about it.) Eventually, it killed him. I'm slowly putting in a garden in my yard, and Ted's ashes will be with us.

[Phoenix520]

Off Topic

i love that you’re putting Ted’s ashes in your garden. I’m putting in a berry patch today -raspberries, blackberries, blueberries and strawberries. Reading up, wood ash is not good for berries and other acid-loving plants but pet ashes are ok. Different ph.

[W. Kevin Vicklund]

Dr. Vicklund and I started on Paxlovid today. I'm nearly out of the woods*, but Dr. Vicklund is still suffering mightily (she's two days behind).

*

► Show Spoiler

Except the runs. Holy fuck, the runs. Why did I not know about this symptom? Between the two of us, it's been dueling bathroom trips all evening.

[AndyinPA]

I'm taking the kids on an Alaska cruise in August, originally planned with my husband, of course. I plan to take tests along, but I saw a recommendation to take a prescription of Paxlovid for myself. I'll have to see if my doctor would prescribe that for me on a just-in-case basis. I am planning to get the newest booster before the trip.

[RVInit]

Dr. Vicklund and I started on Paxlovid today. I'm nearly out of the woods*, but Dr. Vicklund is still suffering mightily (she's two days behind).

*

► Show Spoiler

Except the runs. Holy fuck, the runs. Why did I not know about this symptom? Between the two of us, it's been dueling bathroom trips all evening.

I am so sorry you are having such discomfort. I hope Dr Vicklund feels better soon and glad you are starting to feel better, aside from the bad thing. Keep getting better!

[W. Kevin Vicklund]

We appear to have fully recovered. Dr. Vicklund had to go on a steroid burst for the nasty cough she had, so it took her an extra week or two, but she's at or near her "normal" now.

[RVInit]

We appear to have fully recovered. Dr. Vicklund had to go on a steroid burst for the nasty cough she had, so it took her an extra week or two, but she's at or near her "normal" now.

I just realized those are older messages. The last few months I get way behind in many of the topics and don't always realize that I'm reading one of the topics where I haven't caught up in quite a while. Anyway, glad to hear you got through it all and are both better now! Thank goodness I have not yet had the experience of Covid, I hope that continues, sounds rough.

[Foggy]

I might be about to start a firestorm. Here goes:

Ol' Wifehorn and I have had all the vaccines and boosters thus far. No more.

In the three years and seven months of the virus, we have never had a symptom. We have had a few tests, all negative. Neither of us has felt like we had any kind of issues that were COVID related. In fact, we haven't had a cold or the flu or ... or any kind of URI during the past almost four years.

The time of COVID has been the healthiest few years of our lives, from that standpoint (my shoulder replacements were the result of playing football many years ago).

And it's not like we haven't been exposed, because we've both been exposed dozens probably hundreds of times. I spent a year and a half of the pandemic going to the gym four times a week.

We've been to the stores without masks. Social events. Hotels. We gave up being careful because ... are you sitting down?

Ol' Wifehorn thinks we're COVID-resistant and can't get the virus.

So she decided not to get the latest and greatest booster. I'm probably gonna get it, but she knows someone who got the booster and the flu shot together and had a stroke. So she's all done with COVID shots.

Please discuss.

[Kriselda Gray]

Um... has she not considered that y'all might be COVID resistant *because* you've had all the vaccines and boosters?

[poplove]

I saw my medical provider last week and he said to get one shot at a time, a week apart, so if there's a reaction you know which vaccine caused it.

ETA: He also said two shots at a time cause your system to work harder building up two immunities at the same time.

[AndyinPA]

Many people who are sure they have not had Covid, or even felt like it, have. When they have tested the blood supply in the US, 96.4* percent of the blood samples show Covid antibodies. I think they can tell whether they were from vaccines or the virus itself, but that means a lot of people who are sure they never had it did, but it's totally your decisions.





*Saw that percentage in an article months ago. The number just stuck with me.

[Foggy]

I know, I think just about everyone in the US has been exposed and has antibodies. I am 150% sure that ol' Wifehorn and I have antibodies.

But we haven't been sick!

And no, the vaccines aren't supposed to be keeping your symptoms low, they're supposed to keep you from getting the virus at all. They're not a treatment for after you caught it.

So maybe we had it eleventy times each, but totally asymptomatic, and that's another reason not to worry about it.

Either we had it once or more times and are asymptomatic, or we've never had it, but either way the vaccines have not been saving our butts, because otherwise we're in the 3.6% who don't have antibodies, which is really unlikely.

The most likely thing is, we're resistant to the virus, and we've been exposed without getting it or maybe even had it and been asymptomatic.

[Foggy]

I saw my medical provider last week and he said to get one shot at a time, a week apart, so if there's a reaction you know which vaccine caused it.

That's what I'm going to do, even though I think in 2022 I got flu and booster at once. Better safe than sorry. But ol' Wifehorn says she's not going to get any more boosters. Just the flu shot for her.

[pipistrelle]

Recently I kept seeing articles about people with long COVID who supposedly never had COVID. Google came up with this from August.

Why You May Have Long COVID-19, Even If You Never Tested Positive Blood Tests Often Reveal Viral Exposure Despite Previous Negative Tests

[MN-Skeptic]

And you folks work in insurance? Really? Insurance is all about the odds. (Sigh. Shakes my head.)

If your wife really and truly won't get the Covid vaccine, at least make sure that she tests for Covid if there's a slightest chance she gets it so that she can get Paxlovid or whatever they're using now to treat it.

[Foggy]

And you folks work in insurance? Really? Insurance is all about the odds. (Sigh. Shakes my head.)

Even worser, as you know, I was a lawyer, a profession known generally for attracting non-risk-takers. This is why I still plan to take the boosters. Remember, we're only talking about ol' Wifehorn here, and she's expert at many things, not just insurance. Furthermore, health insurance is only any good, in fact, if you get sick or injured.

She sells a little life insurance, too also. The odds are pretty good that her clients plan to die someday.

In any case, she is the most stubborn individual on this planet (we're perfectly matched like that ), especially once she gets set on a plan. I will pass on your comments, but I don't think she'll change her mind.

If your wife really and truly won't get the Covid vaccine, at least make sure that she tests for Covid if there's a slightest chance she gets it so that she can get Paxlovid or whatever they're using now to treat it.

Good idea, and I will definitely do that. I have sent off for the new at-home tests.

[pipistrelle]

Furthermore, health insurance is only any good, in fact, if you get sick or injured.

?
It covers preventive services like colonoscopies and…vaccines. No need to be sick or injured.

[Kriselda Gray]

And no, the vaccines aren't supposed to be keeping your symptoms low, they're supposed to keep you from getting the virus at all. They're not a treatment for after you caught it.

No, they're not a treatment for after you catch it, but they're also not intended to keep you completely disease-free, either. Vaccines (in general) are designed to tell the body how to fight an illness that you've been exposed to. They teach your body how to make antibodies for that particular virus so that when the virus infects you out in the world, your body can say "Hey, I know you, get the fuck outta here!" and kick it to the curb. As a result, you don't get any symptoms even though you **have** been infected.

Every vaccine has breakthrough cases, where people get symptoms even after vaccination. Most often, these symptoms are quite mild, but in a small number of cases, it can get bad. That doesn't mean keeping up on your vaccines isn't worthwhile, though. Most people with either not get a disease or get only a very mild case. With COVID, because there are so many variants and it's such a tough mofo, there's a higher number than usual of people who get mildly ill.

From OSF Healthcare: https://www.osfhealthcare.org/blog/full ... to-others/

Can vaccinated people spread COVID-19?

This article was updated July 5, 2023, to reflect new information from the CDC.

There are two big questions many people about COVID-19. Can you get COVID after being fully vaccinated? And can you spread COVID if you are vaccinated?

The short answers are yes and yes.

“Vaccinated people can become infected with COVID-19 and spread it to others. However, a 2023 study found that vaccinated people were significantly less likely to transmit the virus,” said Brian Laird, PharmD, a manager in Pharmacy Operations at OSF HealthCare.

Chances of getting COVID after being vaccinated

Scientists continue studying how the vaccine can prevent you from spreading COVID and becoming reinfected.

“We are still learning about the virus as it changes,” Brian said. “It’s only been identified for three and a half years. That is an incredibly short period of time when compared to other viruses.”

Data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) shows COVID-19 breakthrough cases occur in fully vaccinated people.

“Breakthrough infections – getting COVID after a vaccine – are relatively common with COVID-19,” Brian said. “Their level of risk depends on mask wearing, amount of time spent around other people and whether they’re vaccinated.”

In these instances, however, symptoms often are mild and the individual doesn’t require medical care or hospitalization.

Can you be a carrier of COVID after vaccine?

Vaccinated individuals have a lower viral load if they get infected. But they still can pass it on to someone else, Brian said.

Viral load means the amount of virus an infected person produces. If the viral load is significantly less due to vaccination, there’s less risk of transmitting the virus to others.

So can vaccinated people spread COVID to a friend or family member who is not vaccinated? It can happen.

“Very few things in medicine have a 0% chance of happening,” Brian said.

People who are immunocompromised and are vaccinated still are at high risk of severe illness or hospitalization due to COVID-19. They should wear a mask and practice other precautions.

“And asymptomatic COVID infections – when someone doesn’t experience any symptoms – still happen,” Brian said. “It is possible to spread the infection without realizing it. As more research is done on the virus, other signs or symptoms may be discovered.”

Vaccinations are key

Getting vaccinated is still recommended for the vast majority of the population.

“This will not completely prevent getting COVID though,” Brian said. “Breakthrough infections still happen, but they tend to be less severe than if a vaccine was never given.”

COVID-19 vaccines help protect against severe illness, hospitalization and death. People who are up to date on COVID-19 vaccines are much less likely to experience severe symptoms.

It’s important, Brian said, to remember how vaccines work. Vaccines are meant to protect you from getting seriously ill, not prevent you from becoming infected.

“In general, vaccines work by allowing your own body to produce antibodies. Those antibodies mount a defense against the disease for which you’ve been vaccinated,” he said. “Your body then remembers what to do if it encounters pathogens from that disease in the future. When that happens, the immune system shuts down the virus before any damage is done.”

So far, the COVID-19 vaccines have needed to be updated to remain effective against variants.

“For at least the near future, it appears yearly updates to the vaccine will continue” much like annual flu vaccines, Brian said.

“This does not mean the vaccine is ineffective. It just means for the best protection of the public, a change in the vaccine is warranted.”

Last Updated: July 5, 2023

[MN-Skeptic]

I was fully vaccinated when I got Covid this past Christmas. For me, it was a nasty cold which cleared up much faster than a cold normally would do for me. I felt like I was coming down with a cold right before Christmas so I took a Covid test just to make sure it wasn't Covid. When I tested negative, I spent that weekend with family. My "cold" got worse and a few of the people I was around - but not all of them - also got Covid. Of course, it was Christmas time with a lot of get-togethers so they could have picked it up from someone else too.

My dear sister-in-law, with a master's degree in immunology, did her own research and opted to not get vaccinated. Of course she's gotten Covid a couple of times, but neither time has been severe. I think that, at least for the first instance, she found a source of ivermectin. But now my 58-year old sister-in-law has been diagnosed with diastolic heart failure. When I saw my sister this past week who has a PhD in biology and is a firm believer in vaccines, she mentioned the idea that our SIL's heart issue could be related to having had Covid. I had wondered that too. But there's no way to tell and I'm certainly not going to suggest that to my SIL. But it does make you wonder.

[Sam the Centipede]

It is highly unlikely that you'd be naturally resistant to the SARS-CoV-2 virus without any exposure.

As Kriselda describes, vaccines are in effect a primer for the immune system: the vaccine introduces an element or elements of the target organism, usually a virus or bacterium, in the case of the mRNA and several other vaccines, the spike protein, prods the immune system, provoking it into making antibodies and memory T-cells (very important) that will be effective quickly against an infection.

Why is an adjuvant sometimes required? Because the vaccine itself is harmless (it doesn't cause disease, it could safely be ignored), so the immune system might need prompting "you don't like this, do you?! do you?! c'mon, wanna fight?!" to misidentify the vaccine as possibly harmful and requiring a response. Some vaccines, such as the mRNA vaccines, don't need that extra prod, the immune system misidentifies them as harmful on its own.

If vaccine designers are lucky, the vaccine will give "sterilizing immunity", meaning a new infection doesn't get a hold, the virus barely multiplies before it is cleared away. I thought that early claims in late 2020 suggested that these were sterlizing vaccines, but, if those claims were made then, they certainly aren't now.

These SARS-CoV-2 vaccines would be unlikely to create sterlizing immunity immediately, absent infection. The vaccine is introduced intramuscularly whereas the infection will enter through mucosal membranes. Hence the immune system doesn't provide as much protection in the mucosal membranes as would be liked. When the virus comes along, the immune system has to say "oh, you've come in here have you? wait while I round up the troops! more antibodies and T-cells on the way!"

One could acquire immunity by being exposed to a low level of virus, enough to provoke a reaction, but small enough that the body clears it quickly before perceptible symptoms start. Thereafter the body has that immune memory, and will upgrade it if again exposed to virus at low or medium levels, a natural booster.

As far as I am aware I only have had Covid once. For me, it was initially like a mild hangover, then a sore throat, and nothing worse than a bad cold. I tested positive, but only with pale pink stripes, never the bold lines that many get. So I think I had a low level of virus in my body, and my vaccinated immune system cleared it decently quickly. I used it as an opportunity for avoiding work for a week! The next time I might get a lungful of the little critters and find life much less pleasant.

Vaccines are a public health measure, they aim to (1) protect the population from severe diseases, and (2) prevent excess pressure on public health services. The aim is never to prevent mild disease, but if the vaccine achieves that, it's a bonus. The aim i's to keep people out of the hospital and mortuary.

[Foggy]

As far as I am aware I only have had Covid once.

Well, that's interesting. How many people here have NEVER had it (that you know of, of course)?

[p0rtia]

Never had it. Vaxxed to the max.

[Kriselda Gray]

As far as I am aware I only have had Covid once.

Well, that's interesting. How many people here have NEVER had it (that you know of, of course)?

I haven't, nor have my husband or our roommate. All three of us are fully vaccinated.

[Sam the Centipede]

As far as I am aware I only have had Covid once.

Well, that's interesting. How many people here have NEVER had it (that you know of, of course)?

I don't know! My comment wasn't really comparing my experience with yours, simply musing on the fact that some infections can be very real but mild, which, of course, we all know.

I imagine a lot of people I know have had it but never mentioned it in conversation with me - but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and Bayes can't help us here. So I don't know how many have successfully evaded it, well done them though.

I can't be 100% sure that I haven't also had a very mild infection again. No way of knowing. If someone has been successfully vaccinated with one of the spike-based vaccines (such as the mRNAers and the Astra-Zeneca, whose name I have forgotten) they will have antibodies against the spike (S) protein, which can be assayed. But they won't have antibodies against other components of the virus, only encountered in an infection, such as the other 3 structural proteins or the 16 non-structural proteins (enzymes). So it's possible to test whether a vaccinated person has been infected by the virus by assaying for antibodies against those other proteins, such as E and N (envelope and nucleocapsid).

But testing for a repeat infection that has been cleared, not possible … or at least not possible without some really expensive lab work identifying variants and so forth. I doubt that anybody was wasted time trying.