Balloons, UFOs, and other incursions of US airspace "You send 'em, we shoot' em"

[Foggy]

!	Message from: Foggy
	This thing is getting so big, I split it off from the main China thread (h/t Eurobot).

[Lani]

Unusual green lights were spotted above Mauna Kea. Here’s where they came from

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2023/02/1 ... utType=amp

HONOLULU (HawaiiNewsNow) - Last month, beams of green lights flashed across the sky above Mauna Kea, almost like something out of a science fiction movie.

Scientists now have an answer as to what those mystery lights were.

The unusual sight likely came from a Chinese satellite, Japanese astronomers said.

The images were captured on Jan. 28 by the Subaru Telescope, which is a Japanese-operated telescope on the summit of Mauna Kea.

Astronomers initially thought they were from a NASA satellite. But now, they think it’s actually a Chinese satellite that monitors pollutants and greenhouse gases.

There's a lot of satellites and balloons everywhere.

[Kendra]

Nancy Mace claims on CNN criticizes the Biden administration for shooting down three objects "over US territory, over land," which is completely false. Not a single object has been shot down over US land.

[raison de arizona]

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1625492842377515008

Nancy Mace claims on CNN criticizes the Biden administration for shooting down three objects "over US territory, over land," which is completely false. Not a single object has been shot down over US land.

So on one channel you've got mtg screaming about why WEREN'T they shot down over land, and on the other channel you've got Mace screaming that they WERE shot down over land.

So I'm assuming this is bad for Biden.

[Gupwalla]

In related news, a discount mattress retailer in Fairbanks is scrambling to formulate a new President’s Day Sale marketing strategy after its traditional “Dancing Tube Man” display was obliterated by a sidewinder missile. Full story at 11.

[Chilidog]

You and I in a little toy shop
Buy a bag of balloons with the money we've got
Set them free at the break of dawn
'Til one by one, they were gone
Back at base, sparks in the software
Flash the message "Something's out there"
Floating in the summer sky
99 red balloons go by....

[RTH10260]

China Says U.S. Should ‘Reflect on Itself,’ Alleging American Balloons in Its Airspace

BY ASSOCIATED PRESS
FEBRUARY 13, 2023 6:10 AM EST

BEIJING — China on Monday said more than 10 U.S. high-altitude balloons have flown in its airspace during the past year without its permission, following Washington’s accusation that Beijing operates a fleet of surveillance balloons around the world.

The Chinese allegation comes after the U.S. shot down a suspected Chinese spy balloon that had crossed from Alaska to South Carolina, sparking a new crisis in bilateral relations that have spiraled to their lowest level in decades.

Read More: China Has an Extensive Satellite Network. Here’s Why It Would Use a Balloon to Spy

Foreign Ministry spokesperson Wang Wenbin gave no details about the alleged U.S. balloons, how they had been dealt with or whether they had government or military links.

“It is also common for U.S. balloons to illegally enter the airspace of other countries,” Wang said at a daily briefing. “Since last year, U.S. high-altitude balloons have illegally flown over China’s airspace more than 10 times without the approval of Chinese authorities.”

Wang said the U.S. should “first reflect on itself and change course, rather than smear and instigate a confrontation.”



https://time.com/6255019/us-balloons-china-airspace/

[neeneko]

Somehow I suspect that the 'airspace' China is claiming that the US violated was airspace no one else recognizes as part of China.

[chancery]

ETA: There's no information that any U-2 has ever been armed...

No, but the YF-12 was.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_YF-12

Some eye-popping bits of information from the wikipedia article about the YF-12's unarmed single-seat variant, the A-12, a precursor to the SR-71 Blackbird. Footnote calls omitted, slightly "cleaned up."

In 1963, the program experienced its first loss when, on 24 May, "Article 123" piloted by Kenneth S. Collins crashed near Wendover, Utah. Collins safely ejected and was wearing a standard flight suit, avoiding unwanted questions from the truck driver who picked him up. He called Area 51 from a highway patrol office. The reaction to the crash illustrated the secrecy and importance of the project. The CIA called the aircraft a Republic F-105 Thunderchief in news articles and official records. Two nearby farmers were told that the aircraft was carrying atomic weapons to dissuade them from approaching the crash site; and local law enforcement and a passing family were strongly warned to keep quiet about the crash. Each was also paid $25,000 in cash to do so; the project often used such cash payments to avoid outside inquiries into its operations. The project received ample funding: contracted security guards were paid $1,000 monthly with free housing on base, and chefs from Las Vegas were available 24 hours a day for steak, Maine lobster, or other requests.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_A-12

[RTH10260]

Three objects shot down after Chinese spy balloon may be benign, White House says
Flying objects could be commercial- or research-linked, while US military admits first shot at object over Lake Huron missed

Julia Carrie Wong
Wed 15 Feb 2023 01.32 GMT

Three unidentified objects shot down by US fighter jets since Friday may turn out to be balloons connected to “benign” commercial or research efforts, a White House official said on Tuesday.

The US has not found any evidence to connect the objects to China’s balloon surveillance program nor to any other country’s spy program, national security council spokesperson, John Kirby, told reporters.

“We haven’t seen any indication or anything that points specifically to the idea that these three objects were part of the [People’s Republic of China’s] spying program, or that they were definitively involved in external intelligence collection efforts,” he said.

Instead, a “leading explanation” may be that the objects were operated privately for commercial or research purposes, Kirby said, though no one has stepped forward to claim ownership.

The unidentified object shot down by a US fighter jet over northern Canada on Saturday was a “small, metallic balloon with a tethered payload below it”, according to a Pentagon memo to US lawmakers obtained by CNN.

The details about the mysterious object – one of three shot down by the US in an eight-day period after a suspected Chinese spy balloon traversed the US mainland and was brought down over the Atlantic Ocean on 4 February – come amid growing frustration over a lack of information from Joe Biden’s presidential administration.

The object shot down over Alaska on Friday was the “size of a small car”, the memo states. It also warns against drawing hasty conclusions: “It should not be assumed that the events of the past few days are connected.”




https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... hite-house

[RTH10260]

crosspost

China threatens US entities over downing of balloon

Wed, February 15, 2023 at 12:42 PM GMT+1

BEIJING (AP) — China said Wednesday it will take measures against U.S. entities related to the downing of a suspected Chinese spy balloon off the American East Coast.

At a daily briefing, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Wang Wenbin gave no details and did not identify the targets of the measures.

China says the balloon was a unmanned weather airship that was accidentally blown off course and accuses the U.S. of overreacting in bringing it down with a missile fired from an F-22 fighter jet.

Since the Feb. 4 downing of the balloon, the United States has sanctioned six Chinese entities it said are linked to Beijing’s aerospace programs.

The U.S. House of Representatives subsequently voted unanimously to condemn China for a “brazen violation” of U.S. sovereignty and efforts to “deceive the international community through false claims about its intelligence collection campaigns.” Secretary of State Antony Blinken also canceled a visit to Beijing that many hoped would stabilize ties that have cratered amid disputes over trade, human rights, Taiwan and China's claim to the South China Sea.

While China denies the balloon was a military asset, it has yet to say what government department or company was responsible.

After initially expressing regret over the balloon's entry into U.S. airspace, China has returned spying accusations against Washington, alongside its threats of retaliation.

“China firmly opposes this and will take countermeasures in accordance with the law against the relevant U.S. entities that undermine China’s sovereignty and security,” Wang said at Wednesday's briefing.

China will “resolutely safeguard national sovereignty and its legitimate rights and interests," Wang said.

Also Wednesday, U.S. Ambassador to Japan Rahm Emanuel said the Chinese balloon's intrusion was part of a pattern of aggressive behavior by Beijing.

Emanuel noted China’s recent beaming of military-grade laser on a Philippine coast guard patrol vessel, the harassment of U.S. planes by Chinese jets and China's opening of illegal police stations in the U.S., Ireland and other countries.

“The balloon to me is not an isolated incident,” Emanuel said.



https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-threat ... 43907.html

[Dave from down under]

A nice summary of recent events

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-16/ ... /101975582

[raison de arizona]

Pres. Biden will speak at 2 p.m. ET today about the country's "response" to four aerial objects that have been shot down in recent weeks, the White House says.

His remarks will be the first time he's extensively commented on the issue.

[RTH10260]

Object downed by US missile may have been amateur hobbyists’ $12 balloon
Illinois hobby group says balloon went missing the day military missile costing $439,000 destroyed unidentified entity nearby

Richard Luscombe
Fri 17 Feb 2023 17.15 GMT

A group of amateur balloon enthusiasts in Illinois might have solved the mystery of one of the unknown flying objects shot down by the US military last week, a saga that had captivated the nation.

The Northern Illinois Bottlecap Balloon Brigade says one of its hobby craft went “missing in action” over Alaska on 11 February, the same day a US F-22 jet downed an unidentified airborne entity not far away above Canada’s Yukon territory.

In a blogpost, the group did not link the two events. But the trajectory of the pico balloon before its last recorded electronic check-in at 12.48am that day suggests a connection – as well as a fiery demise at the hands of a sidewinder missile on the 124th day of its journey, three days before it was set to complete its seventh circumnavigation.

If that is what happened, it would mean the US military expended a missile costing $439,000 (£365,000) to fell an innocuous hobby balloon worth about $12 (£10).

“For now we are calling pico balloon K9YO missing in action,” the group’s website says, noting that its last recorded altitude was 37,928ft (11,560m) while close to Hagemeister island, a 116 sq mile (300 sq km) landmass on the north shore of Bristol Bay.

The object above Yukon was the second of three felled on Joe Biden’s orders on successive days last weekend after a Chinese spy balloon – a fourth separate object – was shot down over the Atlantic after it crossed the South Carolina coast on 4 February.




https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ts-balloon

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

[Azastan]

One of my local friends is reporting that a Norwegian balloon club claims one of its hobby balloons was also shot down.

Don't these balloons have any identifiers on them?

[RTH10260]

The pilot may never again such a realistic life fire training mission. Let him mark the successful hit with a sharpie on his plane

[RTH10260]

One of my local friends is reporting that a Norwegian balloon club claims one of its hobby balloons was also shot down.

Don't these balloons have any identifiers on them?

When a Sidewinder missile elects to explode next to a hobbiest ballon not much left to recover and identify.

[Frater I*I]

The pilot may never again such a realistic life fire training mission. Let him mark the successful hit with a sharpie on his plane

4 more and he's an Ace...

[Azastan]

One of my local friends is reporting that a Norwegian balloon club claims one of its hobby balloons was also shot down.

Don't these balloons have any identifiers on them?

When a Sidewinder missile elects to explode next to a hobbiest ballon not much left to recover and identify.

I mean, don't these things have transmitters that can be used to identify them? Or, you, like, ermmmmmmm...have some kind of visual check before you shoot it down?

My first question to my friend's post was, did the Norwegian club have any proof that this balloon belong to a club member?

The same goes for the Illinois club.

[RTH10260]

Nah - the Illuminati just don't want to speak about their own toys

[AndyinPA]

There's way too much space junk up there.

[johnpcapitalist]

Or, you, like, ermmmmmmm...have some kind of visual check before you shoot it down?

I'm going to guess that, at high altitude, your stall speed is fairly high, especially in a fighter plane, which has a wing designed for low drag at high speed, not high lift at subsonic speeds. So your visual inspection might be carried out at 250-300 knots, at its lowest safe speed. Hard to read foot high markings from a safe distance at that speed. Visual inspection means making sure it's a balloon and not a passenger plane, not anything more detailed.

[Azastan]

It's a balloon. It's not moving at supersonic speeds. Somehow thousands of balloons take to the skies every year. Somehow, amazingly, these thousands of balloons don't get shot down.

Why did THESE balloons get shot down? They apparently have transmitters which enable them to be tracked, and presumably identified as hobbyist balloons, since the information on their flight paths is readily available.

[Frater I*I]

I'm going to guess that, at high altitude, your stall speed is fairly high, especially in a fighter plane, which has a wing designed for low drag at high speed, not high lift at subsonic speeds. So your visual inspection might be carried out at 250-300 knots, at its lowest safe speed. Hard to read foot high markings from a safe distance at that speed. Visual inspection means making sure it's a balloon and not a passenger plane, not anything more detailed.

You would be correct.