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Balloons, UFOs, and other incursions of US airspace "You send 'em, we shoot' em"

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Balloons, UFOs, and other incursions of US airspace "You send 'em, we shoot' em"

#1

Post by AndyinPA »

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nation ... -rcna68879
The U.S. military has been monitoring a suspected Chinese surveillance balloon that has been hovering over the northern U.S. for the past few days, and military and defense leaders have discussed shooting it out of the sky, according to two U.S. officials and a senior defense official.

“The United States government has detected and is tracking a high-altitude surveillance balloon that is over the continental United States right now,” Pentagon spokesperson Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder told NBC News. “We continue to track and monitor it closely.”

“Once the balloon was detected, the U.S. government acted immediately to protect against the collection of sensitive information,” Ryder said.
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#2

Post by Volkonski »

A balloon? Why not a satellite like most other advanced nations use for spying?
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#3

Post by johnpcapitalist »

Volkonski wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:59 am A balloon? Why not a satellite like most other advanced nations use for spying?
A couple possible reasons come to mind:

First, satellites don't always have the ideal coverage patterns for getting exactly over a target of particular interest. They are in fixed orbits, so some stuff may be a lateral shot. There is a lot of value in a reconnaisance platform that shows up unpredictably to gather intelligence. That's why we're continuing to fly the U-2, a plane which first flew in the mid-1950s: it can do a job no satellite can do.

Second, they may be testing systems designed to observe on particular wavelengths or to accomplish missions like side-looking aerial radar that's useful for determining topology which aren't available on their current satellites. They may include these on future satellites.

Third, and I think this is most likely, they may be just tweaking our noses and testing our continental defense network, picking up how we react, what frequencies we communicate on, etc. It's possible that this balloon was never intended to gather useful information on its own but to serve as a trigger for our air defense response, details of which would be observed by satellites.

That sort of information would be useful if they were to try to mount an attack on the continental US. It's not likely that they actually would do so, because they would not likely be able to sail their aircraft carriers beyond the "first island chain" (Philippines, Japan, etc.) that block them from deep water ocean, without being prevented. And once they were outside the "first island chain," it would be unlikely that they would be able to move their carriers back to support a Taiwan invasion, since they would have to pass by in close proximity to a whole ton of countries that would be allied against them.

But sending a subtle signal that they could strike against the US with some means that we haven't developed an effective response for is a move that could be intended to "broaden the battlefront" and dilute our focus away from Job 1, which is currently preparing for Chinese aggression against Taiwan.

The other thing this balloon could be intended to signal to us is that we are at a "combat mass deficit." In other words, we have spent the last 50 years building a relatively small fleet of "exquisite" aircraft. Each one is the best in the air and can outperform any peer adversary one-on-one. But China is better at building large numbers of not-as-good airplanes, trying to outnumber us in the skies, particularly in a conflict near Taiwan, where they are close to land bases and we're coming from very far away. Reminding us of the "combat mass deficit" is another way of messing with our heads and trying to get us to hesitate in our own plans to defend Taiwan aggressively... It's a signal that "we've got more stuff than you do, and now you'll have to defend against our incursions over your homeland, so you should back off."

Of course, we are already acutely aware of the "combat mass deficit" issue and are working on solutions to that problem.
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#4

Post by Volkonski »

https://apnews.com/article/politics-ant ... 6ed5b35ec6

Blinken postpones China trip following balloon discovery
Secretary of State Antony Blinken has postponed a planned high-stakes weekend diplomatic trip to China as the Biden administration weighs a broader response to the discovery of a high-altitude Chinese balloon flying over sensitive sites in the western United States, a U.S. official said Friday.

The abrupt decision came despite China’s claim that the balloon was a weather research satellite that had blown off course. The U.S. has described it as a surveillance satellite.

The decision came just hours before Blinken had been due to depart Washington for Beijing and marked a new blow to already strained U.S.-Chinese relations. The official said Blinken and President Joe Biden determined it was best not to proceed with the trip at this time.

Blinken’s long-anticipated meetings with senior Chinese officials had been seen in both countries as a way to find some areas of common ground amid major disagreements over Taiwan, human rights, China’s claims in the South China Sea, North Korea, Russia’s war in Ukraine, trade policy and climate change.
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#5

Post by johnpcapitalist »

Volkonski wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:40 am https://apnews.com/article/politics-ant ... 6ed5b35ec6

Blinken postpones China trip following balloon discovery
Secretary of State Antony Blinken has postponed a planned high-stakes weekend diplomatic trip to China as the Biden administration weighs a broader response to the discovery of a high-altitude Chinese balloon flying over sensitive sites in the western United States, a U.S. official said Friday.

The abrupt decision came despite China’s claim that the balloon was a weather research satellite that had blown off course. The U.S. has described it as a surveillance satellite.
Obviously, they didn't buy the "Sorry, guys, it's just a harmless weather balloon" story. I'm sure we'll never learn the details of what it was doing that caused them to take a relatively serious step like cancelling a high-level diplomatic mission. I'm sure that it didn't behave like a weather balloon in terms of either where it was, or what EM it was emitting. I wonder what they'll find when it lands and they take it apart.

The other reason they're so pissed is that China dared to overfly the US, even in a slow-moving unmanned balloon. The rules for playing with other people's militaries are well-established. The Russians are constantly flying nuclear-capable bombers down the coast of Alaska, penetrating the ADIZ but not the international boundary. We send up F-22's or F-35's to chase them away. We've been playing that game for decades, without significant incident. But the Russians would never consider an unauthorized entry into US airspace.

China is playing a dangerous game of defying international norms to see what they can get away with. They're becoming increasingly provocative, and it could well blow up unexpectedly with grave consequences.

Separately, I think China is underestimating the degree of anti-Asian sentiment that is just under the surface in the US. Most racist bad behavior is against domestic blacks and Jews at the moment, but that could turn on a dime if China does something that results in American lives being lost. So taking military provocation to the next level with actions close to home could backfire extremely quickly.
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#6

Post by RTH10260 »

Seems the diplomatic weather conditions detoriated
Chinese balloon seen over U.S. was for weather research, Beijing says
Blinken postpones China visit as balloon tracked amid spying concerns

The Associated Press ·
Posted: Feb 03, 2023 12:17 PM EST | Last Updated: 10 minutes ago

A balloon the U.S. suspected was conducting surveillance over the northwestern United States is a civilian "airship" used for weather research and was blown off course, China's Foreign Ministry said on Friday.

A statement from the ministry said the balloon, spotted over the U.S. in recent days, has limited "self-steering" capability and "deviated far from its planned course" because of winds.

It said China regrets the unintended entry of the airship into U.S. airspace. Earlier, the ministry said China has "no intention of violating the territory and airspace of any sovereign country."

"China is a responsible country and has always strictly abided by international laws, and China has no intention of violating the territory and airspace of any sovereign country," said Foreign Ministry spokesperson Mao Ning.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-china- ... -1.6735770
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#7

Post by RTH10260 »

Interesting note:

in https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-n ... index.html
Congress has been briefed on China’s “surveillance balloon activities” in the past, the official said, including a briefing for “key committees” that took place last August, per the official.
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#8

Post by RTH10260 »

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#9

Post by Suranis »

Great, we will have yahoos shooting up at every spot in the sky from now on.
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#10

Post by much ado »

Why does this remind me of Nena's "99 Red Balloons"?



The German "99 Luftballons" video is good:

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#11

Post by Greatgrey »

They’re not new

What's the Frequency, Kenneth?
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#12

Post by neonzx »

Off Topic
much ado wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 4:51 pm Why does this remind me of Nena's "99 Red Balloons"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiwgOWo7mDc

The German "99 Luftballons" video is good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpu5a0Bl8eY
Honestly, when the song was released in English, I loved it. But then I heard the original version in German and preferred it (I don't know German but knew what they were singing from the English ver -- It sounds more authentic in German).
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#13

Post by much ado »

Off Topic
neonzx wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:28 pm
much ado wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 4:51 pm Why does this remind me of Nena's "99 Red Balloons"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiwgOWo7mDc

The German "99 Luftballons" video is good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpu5a0Bl8eY
Honestly, when the song was released in English, I loved it. But then I heard the original version in German and preferred it (I don't know German but knew what they were singing from the English ver -- It sounds more authentic in German).
Yeah, I agree. The words in German are also not quite the same as the English. If you turn on Closed Captions in the German version it will show you the English translation of the German.
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#14

Post by AndyinPA »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... -pentagon/
The Pentagon has assessed that an airborne vehicle spotted flying over Latin America, similar to one seen over the western United States, is another Chinese spy balloon.

“We are seeing reports of a balloon transiting Latin America,” Department of Defense spokesperson Brig. Gen. Patrick Ryder said in a statement to The Washington Post. “We now assess it is another Chinese surveillance balloon.”

Other reports of Chinese surveillance balloons over Canada and Alaska are inaccurate, defense officials said on Friday.

:snippity:

China has a track record of spying in Latin America. In 2021, the Microsoft Threat Intelligence Center seized websites by Chinese hacking group NICKEL across 29 countries, and noted the organization had “a large amount of activity” targeting Central and South American governments.
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#15

Post by poplove »

7A15BB8F-EAF9-4F45-9766-9B496C64F357.jpeg
7A15BB8F-EAF9-4F45-9766-9B496C64F357.jpeg (140.32 KiB) Viewed 752 times
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#16

Post by Phoenix520 »

A TikTok I saw yesterday claimed that all the warheads on the nukes at (not Minot but others) in the north were replaced over the last four years 🫠 and that’s what the balloon is checking out. :lol: You may laugh.
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#17

Post by neonzx »

Phoenix520 wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:25 pm A TikTok I saw yesterday claimed that all the warheads on the nukes at (not Minot but others) in the north were replaced over the last four years 🫠 and that’s what the balloon is checking out. :lol: You may laugh.
Pretty sure China has spy satellites like us. Why are they using weather balloons to conduct convert surveillance? :lol:

And it is winter. Not going to see much with the snow anyway.
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#18

Post by RTH10260 »

Shoot it down! Shoot is down! It's spraying chem trails :twisted:
Thousands Mistake US Research Balloon for Chinese Spy Craft

ByOlivia Poh
February 4, 2023 at 4:58 AM GMT+1

A high-altitude research balloon from the US is now among the world’s most-tracked aircraft, after thousands of internet users mistook it for the suspected Chinese surveillance balloon floating over the western state of Montana.




https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... iral-video
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HAY CHINA what the HELL is that balloon doin' up there?

#19

Post by Foggy »

China places low value on girl babies for various stupid cultural reasons, and the effect is that there are many more men than women in China.

So the spy satellite is obviously looking for our women, and plotting how to kidnap them, carry them off, and make them marry Chinese dudes. I mean, honestly, why can't the media just admit it? :shrug:

I'ma call Fox News, this is the best conspiracy ever!

And as for Fogbow, of course, it would be irresponsible not to speculate. :think:
Out from under. :thumbsup:
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#20

Post by RTH10260 »

The Chinese are obviously concerned about the well being of their soldiers hidden in the AZ and NM deserts, the ones hidden in Mexican desert paying for exercising to climb The Wall, possibly tracking deserters (where else would such come from?) :biggrin:
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HAY CHINA this is your last warnin', I'ma come over there with mah whuppin' stick.

#21

Post by Foggy »

Like this, only with China instead of Mars.



Otherwise, same concept, though.
Out from under. :thumbsup:
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HAY CHINA I'ma send Ron DeSantis to KICK YOUR ASS, YOU KNOW THAT, PUNK?

#22

Post by Foggy »

I can't imagine why Ron DeSantis isn't all over this one. He could get rid of all the transsexuals and drag queens in Floriduh in one swell foop by putting them on the Chinese spy balloon! And then he could say, "No, really, those are women, look at what they're wearing!"


Yeah ... Ron DeSantis trolling the Chinese. :bag:



I'ma go stand in the corner now. :blackeyebig:
Out from under. :thumbsup:
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#23

Post by Mrich »

US Military shot down the balloon over the Atlantic ocean

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#24

Post by Volkonski »

U.S. Shoots Down Chinese Spy Balloon Off the Coast of the Carolinas

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/04/us/p ... ogin=email
The United States shot down a Chinese spy balloon on Saturday that had spent the last week traversing the country, American officials said, an explosive end to a drama that put a diplomatic crisis between the world’s two great powers onto television screens in real time.

The balloon, which spent five days traveling in a diagonal southeast route from Idaho to the Carolinas, had moved off the coast by midday Saturday and was over the Atlantic Ocean. The Federal Aviation Administration had paused departures and arrivals at airports in Wilmington, N.C., and in Myrtle Beach and Charleston in South Carolina, which the agency said was meant to “support the Department of Defense in a national security effort.”

President Biden had hinted at the move earlier on Saturday. “We’re going to take care of it,” Mr. Biden told reporters in Syracuse, N.Y., where he was visiting family members after the death of his brother-in-law.

The president had been discussing military options with the Pentagon since Tuesday, when he was alerted by the Pentagon that a spy balloon had entered the continental American airspace near Idaho. By Wednesday, the balloon was hovering over Montana, and a full-blown diplomatic crisis was underway.
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#25

Post by Phoenix520 »

He did it without bluster and lies. How refreshing. ;)
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