The dregs of birther remainders.

[realist]

Nutjobs begin posting that letter on the nutjob sites as truthful and authentic in 3...2...1.

[noblepa]

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel that that purported letter does not sound like an 18th century speaker wrote it? The phrasing seems far too modern, but I can't point to any particular sentence or phrase.

It sounds an awfully lot like a 22nd century speaker trying very hard to sound like an 18th century speaker.

[Foggy]

DeMaio only has one style of writing, which he thinks is terribly cute.

[bob]

DeMaio only has one style of writing, which he thinks is terribly cute.

Before some jerk* got baned,** the jerk told Rondeau that DeMaio (excuse me, "DeMaio") is a horrible writer.

And Foogy is correct: "DeMaio" is so in love with his own voice, he doesn't know how to modulate it.


*

**

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[W. Kevin Vicklund]

Of course, not only does the language not match, there is an obvious anachronism that would force any historian worth their salt to conclude the letter was a forgery. Anyone want to guess what the phrase is?

[Reality Check]

Of course, not only does the language not match, there is an obvious anachronism that would force any historian worth their salt to conclude the letter was a forgery. Anyone want to guess what the phrase is?

A couple of things come to mind. The extant English translation of de Vattel in 1787 did not contain the words natural born citizen. John Jay's actual letter to GW never referred to "president and commander in chief" since the convention had not settled in that power being vested in one person.

[W. Kevin Vicklund]

Of course, not only does the language not match, there is an obvious anachronism that would force any historian worth their salt to conclude the letter was a forgery. Anyone want to guess what the phrase is?

A couple of things come to mind. The extant English translation of de Vattel in 1787 did not contain the words natural born citizen. John Jay's actual letter to GW never referred to "president and commander in chief" since the convention had not settled in that power being vested in one person.

I did note those, but was thinking of a phrase that didn't get coined for another hundred years and wouldn't need an in-depth knowledge of the writing of the Constitution. ie, one need not be well-versed in birther lore to find the anachronism.

[keith]

What? Tucson? Huh?

If you spell it like that, it should be pronounced Tuck-son.

I say we put ketchup on the whole damn city.

Edit: I have been to Tucson. But I have never been from Tucson to Tucumcari.

Off Topic

Tucson historians will tell you that as recently as the 1940s many residents pronounced the name as “TUK sun.” The name comes from an O’odham word which is pronounced similar to “syook shan” which means something akin to “at the foot of the black mountain.” This in turn refers to the O’odham settlement at the base of what is now called Sentinel Peak (which the University of Arizona renamed A Mountain). This hill is made of black volcanic rock hence the O’odham name.

Today almost all residents say “TOO san,” but you can still find the occasional old timer who says “TUK sun.” Hispanic speakers do indeed put the emphasis on the second syllable, saying something akin to “too SONE.”

But that dont change the spelling of it none,

[bob]

Of course, not only does the language not match, there is an obvious anachronism that would force any historian worth their salt to conclude the letter was a forgery. Anyone want to guess what the phrase is?

"Time-limited"?

[Mr brolin]

Never mind that Vattel and his volume is NOT instruction or even ( in this context ) analysis its is a simple set of statements around how different countries determine citizenship in various ways for a wide range of category of citizenship..... Including .... why..... England where birth is the criteria.

[bbflatt]

Of course, not only does the language not match, there is an obvious anachronism that would force any historian worth their salt to conclude the letter was a forgery. Anyone want to guess what the phrase is?

grandfather clause?

[W. Kevin Vicklund]

Of course, not only does the language not match, there is an obvious anachronism that would force any historian worth their salt to conclude the letter was a forgery. Anyone want to guess what the phrase is?

grandfather clause?

[bob]

Never mind that Vattel and his volume is NOT instruction or even ( in this context ) analysis its is a simple set of statements around how different countries determine citizenship in various ways for a wide range of category of citizenship..... Including .... why..... England where birth is the criteria.

P&E: Revisiting the “What If?” Letter:

what about the “citizen grandfather” clause exception? Where did that come from? More importantly, why did it appear at all? None will disagree that the July 25, 1787 “hint” letter sent by John Jay to George Washington did not include such a time-limited exception from the strict “nbC” criteria being otherwise “hinted” to Washington. Could it have been an intentional omission by Jay when he made his hint? Not likely, but a couple of theories exist.

One, it was a mere oversight, with Jay failing to take into consideration the fact that, even under a “common law” viewpoint espoused by some as meaning a previously-existing British-American “subject” somehow magically became a U.S. natural born “Citizen” from and after July 4, 1774 – hint: didn’t happen – if you were not already a U.S. citizen on September 17, 1787 when the Constitution was “adopted” – not to be confused with “ratified,” which did not occur until June 21, 1788 – you would be ineligible to the presidency.

So goes the theory, this would be unfair to those persons who were of foreign nationalities during the Revolutionary War, yet who fought valiantly in favor of the American Revolution and break with Great Britain. To deny those brave people eligibility to the presidency would be an affront to their valor.

On the other hand, the prevailing argument was that the Founders wanted to exclude “foreign” influence from the halls of governmental power, including, in particular, the presidency – whether the foreigner was a “good guy,” a “bad guy” or a “neutral guy” – and the nbC barrier was intended to serve the purpose of excluding such persons from the office. And if rewarding foreigners for their prior valor was a concern, then allowing them into governmental positions other than the presidency, including the military, should suffice.

The other possibility was that the oversight involved the more serious problem: under a de Vattel § 212 analysis, who would qualify as a genuine “natural born Citizen” to be eligible to serve as President when the Constitution was signed on September 17, 1787? While all of the Founders became on July 4, 1776 – through the naturalization power of the Declaration of Independence – a “U.S. Citizen” from that date forward, they did not magically become “natural born Citizens” as a consequence. Each and all of their parents were either British subjects or foreign citizens.

There is, however, a more logical and, accordingly, compelling interpretation of the nbC clause. Specifically, the mere existence and inclusion of the “citizen grandfather” clause – inserted by the Founders as a time-limited exception to the strict jus soli/jus sanguinis requirements of a de Vattel § 212 “nbC” analysis – confirms that it is the protocol intended and selected by the Founders. Without it, none of the first seven Presidents of the Republic could have constitutionally served.

Reduced to its essence, if a mere ”citizen at birth” or “citizen by birth” protocol were to prevail, or if, as others have claimed, from and after July 4, 1776, everyone born here who had been a British “subject” metamorphosed, like caterpillars into butterflies, into a “natural born “Citizen” … there… would… have… been… no… need… for… the… citizen… grandfather… exception… in… the… first… place.

* * *

Accordingly, it is because the “citizen-grandfather” clause does exist – even though it is no longer operative and its intended purpose has been met – that the conclusion is inescapable that, without regard to whoever determined that it was needed, or whoever drafted it and/or whether Jay’s “hint” letter simply “overlooked” the problem, the Founders intended that an nbC as defined by § 212 of the de Vattel treatise was to be adopted into Art. 2, § 1, Cl. 5 of the Constitution.

First: This is really, really bad writing.

DeMaio (excuse me, "DeMaio") acknowledges the existence of the (so-called) grandfather clause shows the Framers believed there was a category of people who were not natural-born citizens at the time of the Constitution's ratification adoption.

Exactly who those were is up for debate. DeMaio reasons, inartfully, the Declaration of Independence (and the successful Revolutionary War) did not automatically transform former British subjects into U.S. natural-born citizens because, if that were true, then the grandfather clause was not necessary.

But rather than acknowledge the possibility the grandfather clause was intended to cover those born in British America (and perhaps also those born in other British colonies who sided with the Americans, e.g., Hamilton), DeMaio handwaves and concludes, "Vattel!"

[keith]

What? Tucson? Huh?

If you spell it like that, it should be pronounced Tuck-son.

I say we put ketchup on the whole damn city.

Edit: I have been to Tucson. But I have never been from Tucson to Tucumcari.

https://yo utu.be/Il9VFC6-Inw

I have been from Tucson to Tucumcari.
And i've been from Tehatchapee to Tonopah.
I've not driven every kind of rig that's ever been made,
But I have driven the back roads so I could get laid.
And if you give me weed, whites, and wine, (skip the whites)
And you show me a sign
I'll be willin' to be movin...

[raison de arizona]

Showing Santa my lifetime achievement award I received this year from Italian Member of Parliament @LucaToccalini and @LegaSalvini for my fight against the Mob, organized crime, and illegal immigration. Merry Christmas!

[RTH10260]

he is not showing his life time achievement reward that I gave him:

[bob]

[realist]

Yes, obviously the quo warranto expert.

I bet he can't even pronounce properly.

Jennings v. Woods, 194 Ariz. 314 | Casetext Search + Citator
Jennings v. Woods Download PDF Check Treatment Summary holding that because Tony West did not satisfy the requisite statutory criteria, he was ineligible to be elected to the office of Commissioner of the Arizona Corporation Commission Summary of this case from Sherman v. City of Tempe See 7 Summaries Opinion Supreme Court No. CV-98-0586-SA

https://casetext.com/case/jennings-v-woods

¶ 2 We hold Mr. West ineligible by reason of the express language of A.R.S. § 40-101: "A person in the employ of, or holding an official relation to a corporation or person subject to regulation by the commission . . . shall not be elected . . . to . . . the office of commissioner."

The full text of section 40-101 provides:

A person in the employ of, or holding an official relation to a corporation or person subject to regulation by the commission, or a person owning stocks or bonds of a corporation subject to regulation, or a person who is pecuniarily interested therein, shall not be elected, appointed to, or hold the office of commissioner or be appointed or employed by the commission. If a commissioner, or appointee or employee of the commission becomes the owner of such stocks or bonds, or becomes pecuniarily interested in such a corporation involuntarily, he shall within a reasonable time divest himself of such stocks, bonds or interest. If he fails to do so, he thereby vacates his office or employment.

[northland10]

Haven't we been here before?

At least Lake would have better standing for a QW than Taitz and Berg since she was actually running for office. Sadly, anything done now would not be nearly as amusing as Lambeth's statement on Orly's attempt at QW.

“Ironically enough, Ms. Taitz could never establish such an injury because – as far as the court is aware – she was not elected president, nor could she be as she is not a natural born citizen herself.”

[keith]

And that ruling doesn't say anything about a 'holdover'.

Arizona law would specify how the resulting vacancy would be handled. And I highly doubt that law would specify anything about a holdover.

[Luke]

Some idiot was pumping the soon-to-be-denied Brunson v. Adams SCOTUS case. Then suddenly, he popped out as a birfer. And said some mean things about us. And he posted the He, Lucas Smith BC, which even Zullo and Arpaio said was fake (that's on He, Lucas Smith's site). Copied some of y'all on it, it's a little holiday laugh.

PrinceOfFoxes @PPurldiver 3h
Replying to @Orly_licious @t_f_bow and @RemindMe_OfThis

TheFogBow...I remember that tool.
Fact:
James O. W. Ang'Awa
the doctor on the bc was friends with Barack Sr and they lived in the same neighborhood.
You people are mentally ill.
The marxist in the US will be cured one way or the other.
#Obama

OrlyLicious @Orly_licious
Replying to @PPurldiver @t_f_bow and @RemindMe_OfThis

Laughing at you with your debunked Lucas Smith BC! Even #Birthers Zullo & Arpaio say footie BC is fake.
https://www.wasobamaborninkenya.com/blo ... 0-forgery/

[johnpcapitalist]

Reuters published a major takedown of Dennis Montgomery yesterday:



Enjoy!

[bob]

Reuters published a major takedown of Dennis Montgomery yesterday

Reuters: The man behind Trump World’s myth of rigged voting machines:

Montgomery convinced the sheriff to investigate whether the lawman and his constituents were being illegally spied on by the Obama administration, two former sheriff’s investigators told Reuters. Arpaio and one of the investigators told Reuters that Montgomery offered proof of the alleged spying and also promised to explain how Obama’s U.S. birth certificate was faked. Arpaio dispatched the two investigators to visit Montgomery at his Seattle home.

The investigators, Michael Zullo and Brian Mackiewicz, said Montgomery showed them towering stacks of hard drives. The programmer claimed they contained classified government data on private citizens, Zullo said in an interview. He said Montgomery had a streetwise patter that ran counter to the stereotype of an uptight computer programmer.

“He’s very street smart,” said Zullo, who is now retired.

* * *

Zullo said he brought blank hard drives to Montgomery, who claimed to load them with decrypted data that would prove the government spied against Maricopa County citizens.

None of the information panned out, the investigators said. Zullo said Montgomery claimed to have a software program that could reveal how the Obama birth certificate was forged – but it didn’t work. And the data Montgomery supplied as proof of government spying showed nothing of the kind, according to a 2014 assessment Zullo and Mackiewicz commissioned from two former officials of the U.S. National Security Agency.

* * *

Reached by phone, Arpaio called Montgomery a “con man.”

* * *

Zullo, the Arizona sheriff’s investigator, wrote Powell on Nov. 20, 2020, to warn her about Montgomery, in an email reviewed by Reuters.

“Montgomery will destroy the credibility of your legal team and send this entire matter and the nation in a whirlwind of lies and unproven claims,” wrote Zullo, a Trump supporter. “Please exercise much caution when dealing with Dennis Montgomery as he is very convincing.”

Zullo said Powell did not respond to his message.

How did we not know this?:

In 2019, Montgomery sued Arpaio, Zullo and Mackiewicz alleging libel. The computer programmer claimed the sheriff’s office had hired him to “hack into databases and websites to help them prove their beliefs about President Obama’s ancestry and birth information.” The suit was dismissed in 2022.

[RTH10260]

Now we only need Reuters to make the link with the pillow guy

[bob]

Now we only need Reuters to make the link with the pillow guy

The article discusses Lindell; I grabbed just the stuff about Zullo.