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Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

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RVInit
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice - discussion of the book

#51

Post by RVInit »

Sam the Centipede wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:38 am
Uninformed wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:59 am LMK is right that Andrew has not been proven to be a perpetrator of sexual abuse, and it is extremely unlikely that the question will ever be resolved.
What would constitute "proof"? With so many lawyers here, the focus tends to be on courts as the proving ground, but civil courts exist to resolve disputes, not to establish facts. If the parties cease to be in dispute, the court loses its role.

So those of us without privileged access to first-hand knowledge or reliable sources have to make our judgements based on the reports, analysis and opinions of others. We have no duty to anyone in forming those judgements if they remain private and with little impact on others.

Hence it's a Bayesian analysis, a weighting of beliefs, not first order true/false logic.

There is so much direct and circumstantial evidence (I'm not using that as a legal term) that Andrew is a bumptious, entitled person who abuses his privileged position. What precisely happened between him and Giuffre? I don't know, I don't care, but I believe there was much sordid behavior and he was a large or small part of it. And there is little or no evidence to the contrary.

I wouldn't hold up a placard accusing or defaming Andrew but I would quietly object if (hypothetically) any organization I was connected with invited him in. I think that's a proportionate response.

I think it's significant that Andrew received no open support from his family. Ok, they're a weird bunch, but I can only draw adverse inferences from that booming silence.
Exactly. I am puzzled why anyone is so offended that I or anyone else has an opinion. I'm a little old lady, living in Florida, have no power or authority to cause any arrest or other consequence to this man, who i BELIEVE has done these things. The police detectives who investigated Epstein also believed the multiple perpetrators mentioned by the women likely were guilty. Obviously they cannot just put this evidence out to the public. They rely on the prosecutors to do that. In this case, both the state prosecutor and later the federal prosecutor sabotaged the case. The state prosecutor tried to make a deal with Epstein for him to basically get away with everything he had already done, but, he was going to be required to register as a sex offender and that could have curtailed much of his ability to continue the behaviors. Epstein refused that deal, but then along came Alex Acosta and gave Epstein pretty much the exact deal he wanted.

If you read the book this thread is about, you will find the detectives worked with the author. They go so far as to name names of the prosecutors who sabotaged the case, and they and the write have never been sued for it, largely because they have the actual email and other evidence of sabotaging the case. One of the best pieces of evidence that would have allowed the public to find out exactly who may have also been involved disappeared also due to sabotage either by the judge who granted the warrant, the judge's assistant, or a prosecutor. There were only a small number of people who knew about the warrant to collect Esptein's video surveillance equipment and yet when the police showed up to execute the warrant, that equipment had been hastily unplugged, the computers were opened up and left in a state of disarray, the hard drives were missing, and Epstein was already on his way to the airport. That warrant was based on evidence from Epstein's house employees who corroborated the presence of several men and women who the girls had all said were involved and the dates and everything from all witnesses matched. Epstein's employees told police investigators it was commonly believed by all the employees that Epstein had set up those video cameras and computer to collect and save he videos for blackmail purposes.

We will never know for sure, but I am not a prosecutor, I am not arresting anyone, and I have opinions about this case. If I was in a position to bring someone to "justice" then of course I would have to produce all the evidence that was so nicely disposed of. but I'm not.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#52

Post by Uninformed »

“Jean-Luc Brunel: Epstein associate found dead in Paris prison cell”:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60443518

“Jean-Luc Brunel was found hanged in his cell in La Santé prison at 01:00 on Saturday, prosecutors told the BBC.
The 76-year-old had been held for over a year as he was investigated on suspicion of the rape of minors and trafficking of minors for sexual exploitation.”
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#53

Post by LM K »

RVInit wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 1:24 pm Exactly. I am puzzled why anyone is so offended that I or anyone else has an opinion. I'm a little old lady, living in Florida, have no power or authority to cause any arrest or other consequence to this man, who i BELIEVE has done these things. The police detectives who investigated Epstein also believed the multiple perpetrators mentioned by the women likely were guilty. Obviously they cannot just put this evidence out to the public. They rely on the prosecutors to do that. In this case, both the state prosecutor and later the federal prosecutor sabotaged the case. The state prosecutor tried to make a deal with Epstein for him to basically get away with everything he had already done, but, he was going to be required to register as a sex offender and that could have curtailed much of his ability to continue the behaviors. Epstein refused that deal, but then along came Alex Acosta and gave Epstein pretty much the exact deal he wanted.

If you read the book this thread is about, you will find the detectives worked with the author. They go so far as to name names of the prosecutors who sabotaged the case, and they and the write have never been sued for it, largely because they have the actual email and other evidence of sabotaging the case. One of the best pieces of evidence that would have allowed the public to find out exactly who may have also been involved disappeared also due to sabotage either by the judge who granted the warrant, the judge's assistant, or a prosecutor. There were only a small number of people who knew about the warrant to collect Esptein's video surveillance equipment and yet when the police showed up to execute the warrant, that equipment had been hastily unplugged, the computers were opened up and left in a state of disarray, the hard drives were missing, and Epstein was already on his way to the airport. That warrant was based on evidence from Epstein's house employees who corroborated the presence of several men and women who the girls had all said were involved and the dates and everything from all witnesses matched. Epstein's employees told police investigators it was commonly believed by all the employees that Epstein had set up those video cameras and computer to collect and save he videos for blackmail purposes.

We will never know for sure, but I am not a prosecutor, I am not arresting anyone, and I have opinions about this case. If I was in a position to bring someone to "justice" then of course I would have to produce all the evidence that was so nicely disposed of. but I'm not.
Your comment reads just as conspiracy theory as birtherism, JFK, alien coverup, etc.

-I'm not offended that you have an opinion. I'm offended by your unsupported opinion that feeds a conspiracy theory. You're a conspiracy theorist in this case.

-I put a hold on the book at my local library when this thread opened on Jan 1.

-Sabotage. :doh:

-Giuffre has admitted that she's given people good reason to doubt her story. She admits that her multiple changes to her story make it difficult for many to believe her.

Now she admits that she lost the original photo.

Basically, any male who knew Epstein is a pedophile. It's absurd. :roll:

It's a conspiracy ... and y'all know it.

So hey, who was so scared of Epstein spilling the beans that they hired someone to murder Epstein in jail? Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, Andrew, Giuliani, Brunel, Maxwell, George Mitchell, Bill Richardson, Les Wexner, Dershowitz, Marvin Minsky, Glenn Dubin and Eva Andersson-Dubin ... ?

The Epstein conspiracy theories hurt Epstein's/Maxwell's victims. Every single victim, known and unknown.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#54

Post by RVInit »

Sorry, LM K. I have lots of respect for you and enjoy most of your postings. In this thread, not so much.

The fact that the case against Jeffrey Epstein was sabotaged, first by the state District attorney is widespread knowledge by anyone following the case closely. That is the opinion of the detectives that investigated this case, and the book clearly documents the different ways in which the state prosecutor threw all kinds of wrenches in the efforts of police detectives to help put a case together. If you haven't read the book, then stop with the criticism. Until you get up to speed, just stop. This thread is about all the evidence of both state and federal prosecutors to help Epstein avoid prosecution. If you think the word "sabotage" is too strong a word to use for it, that may still be your opinion after you read the book or may not be. It's not too strong a word for me after reading every book, and article about this case. I live here. Right where this happened. It may very well be that people who don't live here have not followed the evidence of prosecutorial sabotage because they don't read the Miami Herald or the book that also came from Julie Brown's excellent investigation of the absolute perversion of justice that happened in this case.

it's also noteworthy that not a single one of the prosecutors that is documented in this book as having taken active steps to destroy any possible prosecution of Epstein - not a single one - ever sued. Because Brown has the goods, due to FOIA she has their emails as well as all kinds of other evidence that yes, they sabotaged, I repeat, sabotaged any effort to prosecute Epstein.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#55

Post by LM K »

I'm not nearly as ignorant about this case as you appear to believe. My dear, I've read all of Julie Brown investigative reporting on Miami Herald. I've read an ENORMOUS amount about Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.

You keep missing the point. I'm talking about Andrew. I've discussed the Epstein case at length in another thread.

Why you assume I don't believe anything related to Epstein surprises me ... since I've limited myself to ANDREW (and a single reference to the "murder of Epstein").

I'll remove my obviously ignorant ass from this thread until I've met your research standards. :roll:
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#56

Post by RVInit »

LM K wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 4:27 pm I'm not nearly as ignorant about this case as you appear to believe. My dear, I've read all of Julie Brown investigative reporting on Miami Herald. I've read an ENORMOUS amount about Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.

You keep missing the point. I'm talking about Andrew. I've discussed the Epstein case at length in another thread.

Why you assume I don't believe anything related to Epstein surprises me ... since I've limited myself to ANDREW (and a single reference to the "murder of Epstein").

I'll remove my obviously ignorant ass from this thread until I've met your research standards. :roll:
Please don't take such offense. I didn't call you ignorant. I have no idea who had read what, you mentioned you have put the book on reserve but never said you read it.

You are the one who called ME a conspiracy theorist in this thread. And specifically because I used the word sabotage. I used that word only in regard to the behavior of prosecutors in burying the facts and evidence regarding Jeffrey Epstein. As far as Andrew or anyone else's involvement, that is not the subject of this thread and is not what I'm referring to when I talk about sabotage of the prosecution of Jeffrey Epstein. The fact that I DO happen to believe that Andrew and others, both men and women, who were accused by more than just Giuffre, also participated has nothing do to with my opinion about the sabotage by prosecutors of any case that could be made against Jeffrey Epstein.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#57

Post by Dave from down under »

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2022-02- ... /100845846

A modelling agent who was close to disgraced US financier Jeffrey Epstein has been found dead in his French jail cell, where he was being held in an investigation into the rape and sex trafficking of minors, according to the Paris prosecutor's office.

Key points:

Multiple women have spoken to police since a French probe began in 2019
Virginia Roberts Giuffre alleged Jean-Luc Brunel procured women for sex with Epstein and other wealthy people
Brunel was detained at Paris's Charles de Gaulle Airport in 2020
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#58

Post by LM K »

RVInit wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 8:19 pm
You are the one who called ME a conspiracy theorist in this thread. And specifically because I used the word sabotage. I used that word only in regard to the behavior of prosecutors in burying the facts and evidence regarding Jeffrey Epstein. As far as Andrew or anyone else's involvement, that is not the subject of this thread and is not what I'm referring to when I talk about sabotage of the prosecution of Jeffrey Epstein. The fact that I DO happen to believe that Andrew and others, both men and women, who were accused by more than just Giuffre, also participated has nothing do to with my opinion about the sabotage by prosecutors of any case that could be made against Jeffrey Epstein.
Then start another thread. Over 50% of the posts in this thread refer to Andrew.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#59

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I started this thread to discusss the book and issue of prosecutorial sabotage of Epsteins case. You and others introduced Andrew into it. And you want me to start another thread to discuss what I intended this thread to be about? I won't be chased out of a thread that I started for a purpose, and think I did a fairly decent job of indicating with my initial posts what I started the thread for. Including naming it after very book it's about. No, I won't be starting a different thread to discuss the book this thread is (or was before others brought other things into it) This one will suffice.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#60

Post by Uninformed »

I am one of those who have used this topic to post about Prince Andrew and accept that doing so has distracted from its intended content.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#61

Post by p0rtia »

RVInit wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 6:52 am I started this thread to discusss the book and issue of prosecutorial sabotage of Epsteins case. You and others introduced Andrew into it. And you want me to start another thread to discuss what I intended this thread to be about? I won't be chased out of a thread that I started for a purpose, and think I did a fairly decent job of indicating with my initial posts what I started the thread for. Including naming it after very book it's about. No, I won't be starting a different thread to discuss the book this thread is (or was before others brought other things into it) This one will suffice.
Well put. You've been a terrific reporter here and elsewhere, and always aim for fairness. :heart:
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#62

Post by RVInit »

p0rtia wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 8:56 am
RVInit wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 6:52 am I started this thread to discusss the book and issue of prosecutorial sabotage of Epsteins case. You and others introduced Andrew into it. And you want me to start another thread to discuss what I intended this thread to be about? I won't be chased out of a thread that I started for a purpose, and think I did a fairly decent job of indicating with my initial posts what I started the thread for. Including naming it after very book it's about. No, I won't be starting a different thread to discuss the book this thread is (or was before others brought other things into it) This one will suffice.
Well put. You've been a terrific reporter here and elsewhere, and always aim for fairness. :heart:
Thanks for the support. I feel just terrible for the breakdown in this thread, which I understand I also made contributions to that, not trying to just blame others. :(
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#63

Post by Kendra »

Uninformed wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:50 am I am one of those who have used this topic to post about Prince Andrew and accept that doing so has distracted from its intended content.
Me too.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#64

Post by RVInit »

Kendra wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:16 am
Uninformed wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:50 am I am one of those who have used this topic to post about Prince Andrew and accept that doing so has distracted from its intended content.
Me too.
Please don't feel as if you owe any apology, I never tried to stop any postings like this because, honestly I did not consider it a big deal. I did not intend to try to make people feel bad about posting something that certainly is tangentially related and understandable that the conversation might go in that direction. :bighug:
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#65

Post by Uninformed »

:thumbsup:
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#66

Post by Kendra »

RVInit wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:19 am
Kendra wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:16 am
Uninformed wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:50 am I am one of those who have used this topic to post about Prince Andrew and accept that doing so has distracted from its intended content.
Me too.
Please don't feel as if you owe any apology, I never tried to stop any postings like this because, honestly I did not consider it a big deal. I did not intend to try to make people feel bad about posting something that certainly is tangentially related and understandable that the conversation might go in that direction. :bighug:
:bighug: I seem to recall discussions about starting a thread for Andrew since trial seemed certain, but then he settled and...here we are.
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#67

Post by Kriselda Gray »

May I sugg3st changing the title to something like "Jeffery Epstein book: The Perversion of Justice" to make it more clear?
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Re: Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#68

Post by bob »


The prosecutor's preferring an inquest, and the court's agreement, is unsurprising.
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Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#69

Post by AndyinPA »

https://apnews.com/article/crime-caribb ... 498d5b2f92
SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) — The U.S. Virgin Islands announced Wednesday that it reached a settlement of more than $105 million in a sex trafficking case against the estate of financier Jeffrey Epstein.

The settlement ends a nearly three-year legal saga for officials in the U.S. territory, which sought to hold Epstein accountable after he was accused of sexually abusing dozens of underage girls and of causing environmental damage on the two tiny islands he owned in the U.S. Virgin Islands. The islands will be sold as part of the agreement.

“This settlement restores the faith of the people of the Virgin Islands that its laws will be enforced, without fear or favor, against those who break them,” Attorney General Denise George said.

Epstein’s estate agreed to pay the territorial government $105 million in cash and half of the proceeds from the sale of Little St. James island where Epstein owned a home and authorities allege many of his crimes took place.

The estate also will pay $450,000 to repair environmental damage on Great St. James, another island Epstein owned where authorities say he removed the ruins of colonial-era historical structures of slaves.
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Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#70

Post by John Thomas8 »

LM K wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:57 pm
Basically, any male who knew Epstein is a pedophile. It's absurd. :roll:

It's a conspiracy ... and y'all know it.

So hey, who was so scared of Epstein spilling the beans that they hired someone to murder Epstein in jail? Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, Andrew, Giuliani, Brunel, Maxwell, George Mitchell, Bill Richardson, Les Wexner, Dershowitz, Marvin Minsky, Glenn Dubin and Eva Andersson-Dubin ... ?

The Epstein conspiracy theories hurt Epstein's/Maxwell's victims. Every single victim, known and unknown.
Simon's writer does a deep dive into this:



Whoever is purporting Andrew is guilty because he knew dirt bag is touting unfounded accusations.
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Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#71

Post by Patagoniagirl »

John Thomas8 wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:54 pm
LM K wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:57 pm
Basically, any male who knew Epstein is a pedophile. It's absurd. :roll:

It's a conspiracy ... and y'all know it.

So hey, who was so scared of Epstein spilling the beans that they hired someone to murder Epstein in jail? Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, Andrew, Giuliani, Brunel, Maxwell, George Mitchell, Bill Richardson, Les Wexner, Dershowitz, Marvin Minsky, Glenn Dubin and Eva Andersson-Dubin ... ?

The Epstein conspiracy theories hurt Epstein's/Maxwell's victims. Every single victim, known and unknown.
Simon's writer does a deep dive into this:



Whoever is purporting Andrew is guilty because he knew dirt bag is touting unfounded accusations.
Excellent! Thanks for the video. I like that guy. The podcast guy, not Epstein.
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Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#72

Post by poplove »

Gift link from tweeter mrs panstreppon @mrspanstreppon

How Jeffrey Epstein Tried to Tap Into Trump’s Circle

https://www.wsj.com/politics/jeffrey-ep ... _permalink
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Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#73

Post by Kendra »

Thanks poplove.
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Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#74

Post by raison de arizona »

Well this may be interesting.
https://x.com/TristanSnell/status/17371 ... 51133?s=20
Tristan Snell @TristanSnell wrote: BREAKING: Epstein list will be UNSEALED and PUBLIC, per a new court order from a federal judge in NYC.

Over 150 associates of Jeffrey Epstein will be revealed, as early as January 1.
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Jeffrey Epstein: Perversion of Justice

#75

Post by AndyinPA »

:popcorn:
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