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Major Changes to PACER for Realist et al ⚖️ - Public Access to Court Electronic Records - $125M Settlement

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MN-Skeptic
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Refunds: Judge certifies class in lawsuit challenging PACER fees

#1

Post by MN-Skeptic »

See Old Fogbow thread - https://formerly.thefogbow.com/forum/vi ... 72#p854772

Federal court leaders agree to refund fees for online records
The federal judiciary has agreed to pay $125 million to reimburse hundreds of thousands of users of the nationwide online records system as part of a proposed settlement made public Tuesday in a long-running lawsuit aimed at reducing the cost to access court records.

Three nonprofits accused the judiciary in 2016 of overcharging to review and download records through the service known as PACER, an acronym for Public Access to Court Electronic Records. The agreement, which must be approved by a federal judge in Washington, mainly would refund up to $350 for fees paid between April 2010 and May 2018. Users who paid more during that period would receive an additional share of the remaining funds.

The settlement does not eliminate charges for using PACER. But advocates for court transparency say the unusual case has put pressure on the judiciary to overhaul the system and prompted Congress to act.
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Major Changes to PACER for Realist et al ⚖️ - Public Access to Court Electronic Records - $125M Settlement

#2

Post by Luke »

:dance: Huge news for PACER users and for everybody going forward. :P

I've always wanted to try it but was afraid of the cost, maybe someone with experience can explain how to join it and search for us? With the $30/Month credit, maybe on things we all want to see we can share the pages like a crowdsource (like the gift links on news articles).
Federal court leaders agree to refund fees for online records
The proposed settlement would resolve a long-running lawsuit aimed at reducing the cost to access court records through PACER, an acronym for Public Access to Court Electronic Records
By Ann E. Marimow October 11, 2022 at 5:22 p.m. EDT
The federal court system has agreed to reimburse thousands of users who paid to access court records online. (iStock)

The federal judiciary has agreed to pay $125 million to reimburse hundreds of thousands of users of the nationwide online records system as part of a proposed settlement made public Tuesday in a long-running lawsuit aimed at reducing the cost to access court records. Three nonprofits accused the judiciary in 2016 of overcharging to review and download records through the service known as PACER, an acronym for Public Access to Court Electronic Records. The agreement, which must be approved by a federal judge in Washington, mainly would refund up to $350 for fees paid between April 2010 and May 2018. Users who paid more during that period would receive an additional share of the remaining funds. The settlement does not eliminate charges for using PACER. But advocates for court transparency say the unusual case has put pressure on the judiciary to overhaul the system and prompted Congress to act.

“When we filed this case, it was unthinkable that we could bring a class action lawsuit against the federal judiciary — in the federal judiciary — and end up getting 100 cents on the dollar in refunds for the average PACER user,” Deepak Gupta, the lead attorney for the three nonprofit groups behind the lawsuit, said in an email. “This settlement has already struck an important blow for transparency going forward.” The National Veterans Legal Services Program, National Consumer Law Center and Alliance for Justice claimed that the dime-per-page fee unlawfully exceeded the cost of running the system. The proposed settlement is estimated to refund more than 400,000 class members, a group that includes individual users, companies, academics and media organizations.

A federal appeals court in 2020 upheld a lower court finding that the charge of 10 cents per page is “higher than necessary to operate the system,” and the court limited fees to the amount needed to cover the cost of providing access online. The Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts will spend an estimated $64 million to run its court records system this year, according to the Congressional Budget Office. The cost of storing data has declined since the electronic repository was created in the 1980s, while PACER fees have increased. The litigation showed that the administrative office previously used PACER fees to fund some unrelated projects, including for flat-screen TVs for jurors and to send notices to bankruptcy creditors.

In a statement Tuesday, the administrative office said it is “pleased this matter has been resolved” and is “taking steps to modernize the system for the benefit of the courts, litigants, and the public who seek to access court records via PACER.” The judiciary does not charge users to read court opinions, and there are waivers for some users to review other documents. While the lawsuit was pending, the judiciary eliminated fees for about 75 percent of users and doubled the quarterly fee waiver to $30, according to court records.

Lawmakers in the House passed a bipartisan bill to ensure free access to PACER, and a similar proposal passed the Senate Judiciary Committee last year. Rep. Hank Johnson (D-Ga.), the lead sponsor of the House bill, said in a statement that the lawsuit “laid bare how the judiciary had been unlawfully using PACER fees to create a slush fund that evaded congressional oversight, impaired the public’s First Amendment right of access to the courts, and ultimately put taxpayers on the hook.” Even so, he added, Congress should pass legislation to “make federal court records freely available to the public once and for all.” Federal judiciary leaders in March separately endorsed a proposal to make PACER searches free for “non-commercial users of any future new modernized” system. To update PACER, court leaders have appointed an advisory group with members from the legal profession, government workforce, media and academia to help develop a more user-friendly system.

After the case was returned to District Court in Washington, the nonprofits and the Justice Department negotiated the agreement through a mediator for the government to pay $125 million for overcharges related to PACER use during the eight-year period. In their filing of the proposed settlement Tuesday, the nonprofit groups emphasized the impact of the high fees, which they said “hinder equal access to justice, impose often insuperable barriers for low-income and pro se litigants, discourage academic research and journalism, and thereby inhibit public understanding of the courts.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... p_politics
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Major Changes to PACER - Public Access to Court Electronic Records - $125M Settlement

#3

Post by Kendra »

I have a PACER account through work. It's very rare I use it unless one of our business customers goes bankrupt and I want to snoop, so I don't think we've ever had to pay more than a few bucks in any quarter. Anyone running out of PACER quota, knock me over the head to get my attention and I'll see what I can do. One caveat that it may not come instantly, the login and password are at my work desk, and now I'm getting a couple of days working remotely at home (yay for me!).
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Major Changes to PACER - Public Access to Court Electronic Records - $125M Settlement

#4

Post by Gupwalla »

The Dead Rooster Site (may it Rest In Peace) is chock full of court records from old birther cases and a few SovCit cases. Especially for the former, I think we all owe a huge debt to Sterngard for paying the upfront costs; other times the Rooster has passed around a collection plate. In some cases those were not PACER fees but rush transcript fees from the court reporter’s office (for cases where the deranged birther had not already paid the transcription fees.)

There is already an open-source alternative to PACER - a site called RECAP at https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/.
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Major Changes to PACER - Public Access to Court Electronic Records - $125M Settlement

#5

Post by northland10 »

The killer, in my opinion, is the 10 cents a page just to search. That adds up just as easily as the docs. The most you will pay for a single doc is $3 as they do not charge beyond 30 pages (not sure how that works if you bundle the main doc and the appendices together).

I try to only pull stuff from my personal laptop, which has Recap installed so anything I do gets posted for others on Court LIstener.
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Major Changes to PACER - Public Access to Court Electronic Records - $125M Settlement

#6

Post by Frater I*I »

northland10 wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:29 pm The killer, in my opinion, is the 10 cents a page just to search. That adds up just as easily as the docs. The most you will pay for a single doc is $3 as they do not charge beyond 30 pages (not sure how that works if you bundle the main doc and the appendices together).

This is mostly correct, main doc and appendix will stop at $3...

Transcripts cost $.10 per page, no cap, 250 pages, $25 fee...
"He sewed his eyes shut because he is afraid to see, He tries to tell me what I put inside of me
He's got the answers to ease my curiosity, He dreamed a god up and called it Christianity"

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Major Changes to PACER - Public Access to Court Electronic Records - $125M Settlement

#7

Post by Foggy »

Yeah, don't forget realist spent many thousands, well into five digits, on PACER over the years. Some of that was defrayed by contributions here and elsewhere - when I started accepting donations every penny went to him for several years, but I know that only put a (hopefully sizable) dent in the total.

And what he paid for, he uploaded and organized on the documents website Scribd, with complete dockets of important cases. An awesome resource, and I hope he's one of the people who can get a refund. :thumbsup: That would be a nice early Christmas present, and we can all swear up and down that it was Soros's and Obama's (and Biden’s) way of thanking realist for all he did over the years.

If anyone ever did a doctoral thesis about the birther movement, his Scribd account would be a priceless resource. :thumbsup:

Tes also made great early use of PACER to make sure we got to see important legal documents, and many others stepped in here and there along the way. But realist was our number one source of PACER documents, then Sterngard, then Tes, then a bunch of people.
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Major Changes to PACER - Public Access to Court Electronic Records - $125M Settlement

#8

Post by raison de arizona »

:notworthy: realist
I spent high two figures, maybe into three :lol:

But seriously, I hope a significant chunk of those refunds comes realist's way.

And thank you.
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Major Changes to PACER - Public Access to Court Electronic Records - $125M Settlement

#9

Post by Foggy »

And I don't mean to minimize N10's expenditures, or many other people's.

But, umm ... yeah. Suppose you were doing research about the birther movement, and you found Formerly Fogbow and poked around for a while. Eventually you'd find some case that would interest you, and you could find it on Tes's Birther Case Scorecard (PDF) to get the correct citation, and on realist's Scribd you could find all the pleadings themselves. Plus whatever Dr. Conspiracy and RC and John Woodman wrote on their blogs, and you'd have a pretty thorough understanding of whatever case interested you if you took the time to poke through all the stuff that is still available.

On the bright side, nobody cares about the birthers anymore. :lol: I haven't ever had somebody contact me saying "wow, I'm writing a paper about all this and could use a little help!" I think it's good material for a sociological or even psychological study -- a whole segment of society suffering a mass delusion because of a president's self-serving political enemies -- but apparently not many Earthlings agree. I remember reading on World Net Daily a dozen ways that YOU could help prove Obama was born in Kenya and was ineligible to be president, and I was astounded to learn that each and every one of the dozen ways you could help get rid of Obama involved sending money to World Net Daily, not that that publication had any incentive to push the mass delusion on the public.

But I'd still like to see PACER give realist a huge refund. :thumbsup:
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Major Changes to PACER - Public Access to Court Electronic Records - $125M Settlement

#10

Post by realist »

northland10 wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:29 pm The killer, in my opinion, is the 10 cents a page just to search. That adds up just as easily as the docs. The most you will pay for a single doc is $3 as they do not charge beyond 30 pages (not sure how that works if you bundle the main doc and the appendices together).

I try to only pull stuff from my personal laptop, which has Recap installed so anything I do gets posted for others on Court LIstener.
They say that, but it certainly is not always adhered to. It certainly was not during the majority of the time I was downloading birther case docs. Perhaps they are now better at making sure that's the case.
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Major Changes to PACER for Realist et al ⚖️ - Public Access to Court Electronic Records - $125M Settlement

#11

Post by Luke »

It was always a highlight when Birther Report and other blogs had to publish FRIENDS OF THE FOGBOW watermarked on every page if they wanted their birfer crew to be able to read them. :dance:
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#12

Post by realist »

Frater I*I wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:41 pm
northland10 wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:29 pm The killer, in my opinion, is the 10 cents a page just to search. That adds up just as easily as the docs. The most you will pay for a single doc is $3 as they do not charge beyond 30 pages (not sure how that works if you bundle the main doc and the appendices together).

This is mostly correct, main doc and appendix will stop at $3...

Transcripts cost $.10 per page, no cap, 250 pages, $25 fee...
That's if you wait and get them from PACER or RECAP, which is normally around 30-90 days following the hearing.

During the birther days, we always wanted to put up the hearing transcripts ASAP so we could show the lies the birthers were telling about the hearings and rulings, etc. I contacted a great number of SECRs around the country as soon as a hearing was over to make arrangements to get the transcripts ASAP, in many cases paying the SECR expedited rates (which are damn expensive) so spending far, far more than .10/page. And when I began the effort it was .08/page. Then birther sites began stealing them from Scribd, usually with no attribution.
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#13

Post by realist »

orlylicious wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:10 pm It was always a highlight when Birther Report and other blogs had to publish FRIENDS OF THE FOGBOW watermarked on every page if they wanted their birfer crew to be able to read them. :dance:
Yeah, that was fun.

After a while, Birther Report began attributing the transcript to Jack Ryan, but never Fogbow directly. Usually something along the lines of From Jack Ryan, a commie from Fogbow. :rotflmao:
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#14

Post by realist »

Gupwalla wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:27 pm The Dead Rooster Site (may it Rest In Peace) is chock full of court records from old birther cases and a few SovCit cases. Especially for the former, I think we all owe a huge debt to Sterngard for paying the upfront costs; other times the Rooster has passed around a collection plate. In some cases those were not PACER fees but rush transcript fees from the court reporter’s office (for cases where the deranged birther had not already paid the transcription fees.)

There is already an open-source alternative to PACER - a site called RECAP at https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/.
/

I don't wish to take away from Stern's, Tes' and a couple others contributions to obtaining birther court docs and transcripts for PJ/Fogbow but those only came once I announced I could no longer front all the costs (which had by then run into five figures (left of the decimal :biggrin: ) and I would then require some funds up front to continue.
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#15

Post by Gupwalla »

realist wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:23 pm I don't wish to take away from Stern's, Tes' and a couple others contributions to obtaining birther court docs and transcripts for PJ/Fogbow but those only came once I announced I could no longer front all the costs (which had by then run into five figures (left of the decimal :biggrin: ) and I would then require some funds up front to continue.
I did not mean to slight anyone! Your Scribd archive was a great help to me when I was first submerging myself into the full ocean of birther idiocy. It was a fantastic resource and I appreciate it more than you could know.

The repository was very artfully collated. :biggrin:
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#16

Post by Foggy »

Now I'm getting all weepy for those golden days of yesteryear, cue the music, Larry!

🎵 🎶 Somewheeeeeeere over the Fogbow! 🎶 🎵

I was younger then, too also. :dance:
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#17

Post by Luke »

A nice reminder that we missed an entry in the "The Distinguished Fogbow Glossary / Dictionary / Lexicon / Snarksauraus - What Do Fogbow's Inside Jokes Mean?" topic at viewtopic.php?p=142962#p142962

SECR = Suck Egg Court Reporter

(Ask Realist) :lol: :dance: :thumbsup:


And, as always and forever...

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#18

Post by Foggy »

Yeah, here's the thing I was thinking about whilst strolling with my lovely bride today on the North Raleigh Greenway:

As y'all can plainly see on the Fogbow Calendar, January 23rd is the 14th anniversary of Politijab opening for membership (Brian and Justin brought it online the day before, but they did some improvements before telling us by email). Politijab is the direct ancestor of Fogbow.

Fourteen years, and also on January 23rd I will be 70 years old, plus a little more than a month. So, a fifth of my entire life. One of every five days of my entire life, I have been a member of this awesome community.

That's pretty cool. 8-)
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Major Changes to PACER for Realist et al ⚖️ - Public Access to Court Electronic Records - $125M Settlement

#19

Post by Luke »

It's about the same for Sharon Bess Hanjian Wirth Rondeau 8-) ... Foggy, you definitely got the better deal!* :lol:


* Although you missed beautiful friendships with Rev Dr Laity Esq, Miki Booth, Mike Zullo, Carl Gallups, Mike Volin, Pornstache, and so many more of America's Funniest Birthers.
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#20

Post by northland10 »

realist wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:08 pm
northland10 wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:29 pm The killer, in my opinion, is the 10 cents a page just to search. That adds up just as easily as the docs. The most you will pay for a single doc is $3 as they do not charge beyond 30 pages (not sure how that works if you bundle the main doc and the appendices together).

I try to only pull stuff from my personal laptop, which has Recap installed so anything I do gets posted for others on Court LIstener.
They say that, but it certainly is not always adhered to. It certainly was not during the majority of the time I was downloading birther case docs. Perhaps they are now better at making sure that's the case.
At least for my last statement, nothing was over 3.00 for documents. I avoid getting those unless I think it is may be useable to share so it is not a huge thing.

Those docket runs are the killer. And even if you run a very limited time, if you go back from the doc to the docket, you get the whole thing, and the many pages to go with it (something to remember with GIL v JW 2006).

My usage went down after most of the birther stuff went out. I don't touch the big ones in the media and Trump stuff. I figure so many will have been there that CourtLIstener will have everything and others will post here.

So, I guess my Pacer bill is GIL's fault (and the slow 9th circuit who won't finish the Constitution Association case).
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Major Changes to PACER for Realist et al ⚖️ - Public Access to Court Electronic Records - $125M Settlement

#21

Post by chancery »

Judge approves $125 million PACER fees settlement with US judiciary

:snippity:
The settlement will provide automatic reimbursements of up to $350 in fees for anyone who used PACER from April 2010 to May 2018. Anyone who paid more than $350 during that time can also receive a pro rata share of the remaining settlement funds.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/governmen ... 024-03-20/

The official site for the action is here: https://www.pacerfeesclassaction.com/
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#22

Post by Reality Check »

realist wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:23 pm :snippity:
I don't wish to take away from Stern's, Tes' and a couple others contributions to obtaining birther court docs and transcripts for PJ/Fogbow but those only came once I announced I could no longer front all the costs (which had by then run into five figures (left of the decimal :biggrin: ) and I would then require some funds up front to continue.
You are entirely justified in pointing out how much you contributed at great financial burden to Politijab and the Fogbow. It added to the knowledge base and to the value to the forums. Your posts with links to the Jack Ryan SCRIBD library were terrific. I recall so many times opening up documents as soon as they hit the forum.
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