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Russia Invades Ukraine

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Frater I*I
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Russia Invades Ukraine

#1626

Post by Frater I*I »

pipistrelle wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:01 pm Is this where Napoleon has entered the chat?
And Hitler....
"He sewed his eyes shut because he is afraid to see, He tries to tell me what I put inside of me
He's got the answers to ease my curiosity, He dreamed a god up and called it Christianity"

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Russia Invades Ukraine

#1627

Post by Frater I*I »

Gregg wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:53 pm :snippity:

You would think that Russians, of all people, would know this.
I posted earlier in the thread, that you would think that the Russians, of all people, would understand that home ice advantage really means something in war...
"He sewed his eyes shut because he is afraid to see, He tries to tell me what I put inside of me
He's got the answers to ease my curiosity, He dreamed a god up and called it Christianity"

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Russia Invades Ukraine

#1628

Post by Dave from down under »

Russia forges ahead with annexation plan despite military retreats, Kyiv distributes anti-radiation pills

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-05/ ... /101501816
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Russia Invades Ukraine

#1629

Post by Gregg »

Frater I*I wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:38 pm
Gregg wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:53 pm :snippity:

You would think that Russians, of all people, would know this.
I posted earlier in the thread, that you would think that the Russians, of all people, would understand that home ice advantage really means something in war...
and Hockey.

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Russia Invades Ukraine

#1630

Post by Mr brolin »

Back in "the day", loh these many moons ago when the Russian and Warsaw Pact hordes were seen as perpetually on the cusp on rolling through the Fulda Gap, Nuclear, Biological and Chemical weapons would be wielded like party favours etc, one was a more junior officer in the Forces of Good..... :mrgreen:

An interesting part of that was that one was, as part of professional development, "encouraged" or more accurately "voluntold" to attend "Getting to know your opponent" instructions, lectures and the like.

As part of that, one very, very early fine day a few of us boarded a military bus at the autobahn crossing at Helmstedt (Checkpoint Alpha) driving the long and somewhat surreal route to the West Berlin entry point (Checkpoint Bravo) and de-bussed at the classic Cold War location Checkpoint Charlie. We were escorted through CC and but on another bus to take us to (IIRC) the Hotel Stadt Berlin where we ended up in a conference room where we were being hosted by the East German military for a liaison/exchange for the next few days.

I won't go through the tedious litany of propoganda, post meeting debriefings and the like but would like to touch on one point at the end of the 3 day get together when it was an informal dinner and cocktail party.

During this that a rather drunken Russian major (almost certainly GRU) was regaling us with stories of the then very hot topic of the Russian adventures in Afghanistan.

The interesting point was at one stage he drew a suprisingly accurate map on the tablecloth and showed HIS perspective. From the Russian perspective, THEY were protecting Europe from the evil asian forces and Russia was surrounded on all sides by those who would attack it without provocation. He truly couldn't see whay everyone was pointing sharp nasty stuff at Russia and that they were the good guys. Shortly thereafter he was rolled out of the room and we alls were bussed back across the border.

The point is that fom the Russian perspective EVERYONE is out to get them, it will ALWAYS get worse, attack is the only form of defense and EVERYONE wants to put Russia into the ground.

Unless that changes......
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Russia Invades Ukraine

#1631

Post by Danraft »

Yeah, that’s how I see it.
And, that’s why, IMO, the only sane answer is for Russia to join NATO.
(There would be a LOT of complications to that path)
But, it is such a novel idea that the populations of Russia and Western Europe are like we all were pre-Covid— naive to the new idea and therefore have little pre-existing defenses against it.

And, from Russia’s viewpoint, the need to know their borders would be sacrosanct is even more important with China looming over them on the East.
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Russia Invades Ukraine

#1632

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Russia Invades Ukraine

#1633

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Russia Invades Ukraine

#1634

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Russia Invades Ukraine

#1635

Post by p0rtia »

Volkonski wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:58 pm
I adore J. Taub, but what the hell does she expect Putin to say? JHC.
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#1636

Post by Gregg »

...because his military is you might say, significantly underperforming.”
Send Viagra, STAT!
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Russia Invades Ukraine

#1637

Post by Foggy »

Just for the record, I'm in the "never capitulate to Putin's threats" column.

Even if he starts a war and we all die. (I'm against that.)

If Putin can dictate American foreign policy by threatening to nuke us, every nuclear power will join the fun. Starting with Iran.

Trump would have turned tail and run long before now. We are really lucky to have Joe Biden.
Out from under. :thumbsup:
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Russia Invades Ukraine

#1638

Post by Sam the Centipede »

Whisper it quietly but US foreign policy might be less of a leader than usual and more of a follower than usual. Northern and eastern European countries that feel threatened by Russia, typically the Baltic countries, neighbors, ex-Soviet countries, are very keen that Russia gains no traction from its aggression. They have skin in this game, and more countries have been dragged in, such as Sweden deciding that it would like to be holding hands with allies in deterring future Russiann threats.

Of course the US is a huge factor as the major player in Nato and the largest weapons supplier with huge deployable stockpiles. Ukraine's progress would have been slower without the materiel, but remember when France supplied its Caesar guns, highly mobile accurate weapons a few months back? They had a large impact (!!) which was eclipsed when HIMARS arrived to change the game in a different direction. The tide was already turning pre-HIMARS.

Putin's unconstrained Trumpian nature is the big problem. He knows best, anyone who slightly disagrees or brings bad news is an enemy. All advice and information is distrusted, he knows best, nothing matters except his imperial ambitions. It's possible others will move against him, but I don't anyone can predict that confidently.

So will Putin try to use weapons of mass destruction, nuclear, biological, etc.? Possibly. Will other powerful Russians try to prevent that? Who knows? Will they succeed? Can't predict.

Obviously Nato/US have plans for a variety of scenarios, all war-gamed. My guess is that these involve massive conventional responses, not like-for-like retaliation. I'd expect Russian military facilities to be flattened and probably precision strikes on leaders, especially in Putin himself.

Others will understand the situation better than I do; my analysis is only guesswork and optimism, so other opinions are welcome!
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Russia Invades Ukraine

#1639

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Russia Invades Ukraine

#1640

Post by p0rtia »

Foggy wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 7:35 am Just for the record, I'm in the "never capitulate to Putin's threats" column.

:snippity:
No other columns. Except for Putin allies. Period.
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Russia Invades Ukraine

#1641

Post by johnpcapitalist »

There is a big fire on the rail portion of the Kerch Strait bridge. Some reports claim fuel tank cars are on fire.

Not clear if this is a missile strike, Ukrainian special forces operation (planting explosives in the fuel card or something like that), or just a derailment due to the usual incompetence.

Too bad that it happened the day after Putin's 70th birthday.

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Russia Invades Ukraine

#1642

Post by keith »

Foggy wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 7:35 am Just for the record, I'm in the "never capitulate to Putin's threats" column.

Even if he starts a war and we all die. (I'm against that.)

If Putin can dictate American foreign policy by threatening to nuke us, every nuclear power will join the fun. Starting with Iran.

Trump would have turned tail and run long before now. We are really lucky to have Joe Biden.
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#1643

Post by johnpcapitalist »

Update: looks like the automobile portion of the Kerch Strait bridge has collapsed. Not sure what happened if the railroad portion, a separate parallel structure is where the fire started.

This is a really big deal.


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Russia Invades Ukraine

#1644

Post by Dave from down under »

Belated birthday present to Putin from some concerned individuals ;)
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#1645

Post by Volkonski »


Videos and photos posted by official Ukrainian accounts on social media on Saturday appeared to show the aftermath of an explosion, with plumes of smoke rising above the water.

At least one section of the bridge appeared to have partially fallen into the Kerch Strait, the waterway between the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea.

A railway bridge running alongside the vehicle bridge also appeared to be damaged.
“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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#1646

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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#1647

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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#1648

Post by Volkonski »

Too bad this didn't happen weeks ago when the Crimea was full of Russian vacationers. Still better late than never. :thumbsup:
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#1649

Post by Foggy »

Out from under. :thumbsup:
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#1650

Post by RTH10260 »

Obviously the target was the road bridge. By lucky coincident, burning debirs hit a train on the higher tracks and blocks them too


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