King Charles III and Queen Consort Camilla (Scorpio/Cancer) + Queen Elizabeth II

[Kriselda Gray]

Thanks much, Gregg!

[Gregg]

Interesting note I thought of...

Trooping the Color is Officially a celebration of the Monarch's Birthday, so it would be reasonable to say "Well, they have done it the second Saturday in June but Charles does not have the same birthday as The Queen so maybe they might move it".

And that is a perfectly reasonable thing to say, it might even be right, but although it is indeed the King's birthday party, for the last 70 years the Queen has had 2 birthdays, one on her real birthday, which was 21st April and one on or around the Second Saturday in June, when the weather was better.

So Charles whose birthday is 14th November, when the weather is even more spotty, is likely to stick the the mid June birthday party.

Which makes me think the Coronation will be in August of next year, because doing it before Trooping the Color would be rushing it. But just my two cents. I'm sure the plans are already mostly made and they might want to do it in the spring.

[Kriselda Gray]

Interesting stuff

Wow, Charles' b-day is only 2 days (and 16 years) ahead of mine

[Gregg]

We need to set up a pool.

A few things I would assume. It will be on a Monday. It's a state holiday and people are gonna expect it to be a working day they will get off (with pay) or they'll feel cheated. It won't be in the middle of a week. It'll be when the weather is nice, they'll want to make it attractive for as many people as possible to be in London for the actual coronation and the surrounding events. It's also likely to be the culmination a very long weekend of events, probably starting with Receptions and stuff on Thursday night and going all the way through putting the crown on Charlie's noggin at 3 PM on Monday.

I am gonna change my mind and say April or May, I think doing it in August will be too hot for Brits and September is back to school season which is a bigger deal than you'd think.

My bet, April 24th, subject to change, but as good a place to aim as any.

[Volkonski]

August is the month when many Brits take their holidays.

Most of the month of April 2023 will occur during Ramadan. Western Easter 2023 will be April 9th.

Scheduling a big event like the coronation will require avoiding a lot of major events that have been scheduled years in advance.

[Gupwalla]

Such disrespect! A distinctly British celebration should be spelled with all of the vowels, especially the superfluous ones.

Trooping the Colour celebrates the monarch’s official birthday, which is currently set at an early June Saturday. It can be changed by royal proclamation, and in fact was changed previously by QE2.

Charles can pick whatever day he wants for his official birthday - and consequently when Trooping the Colour will occur - and he’ll also have some input into his coronation date. So there will be no conflict.

The powers of monarchy have waned over the years, but the King’s birthday and horse parade are whenever he good and well wants them to be.

[Sam the Centipede]

August is the month when many Brits take their holidays.

Most of the month of April 2023 will occur during Ramadan. Western Easter 2023 will be April 9th.

Scheduling a big event like the coronation will require avoiding a lot of major events that have been scheduled years in advance.

I'm not sure how large a factor that is. The Coronation itself is only a one day event, there's no equivalent of lying in state. Of course it's more than one day for the participants and guests traveling in, and the local politicians, diplomats, etc. who must glad-hand the guests.

And if it's scheduled for a Monday (or indeed any other non-weekend day) they will avoid sporting finals.

[Gregg]

August is the month when many Brits take their holidays.

Most of the month of April 2023 will occur during Ramadan. Western Easter 2023 will be April 9th.

Scheduling a big event like the coronation will require avoiding a lot of major events that have been scheduled years in advance.

Absolutely true and no way will it be during Ramadan, Britain has a significant Muslim population.

Checked, Ramadan ends May 20th, so the 24th still works for that.... the 23rd is St George's day so that might actually work well,

Trooping the Color is probably 10th June....

Hmm, I have a new game

[keith]

Have they announced when the coronation will be yet? That's something I'd really like to see.

My betis 3 June 2023

[noblepa]

I have a question.

Many news outlets have been referring to William as the Prince of Wales.

Does he automatically become Prince of Wales when the previous PoW ascends to the throne. I always thought that it took a royal proclamation, or at least the issuing of letters patents, as the monarch does when granting a member of the royal family the honorific "His/her Royal Highness".

I remember that Prince (now King) Charles did not become PoW until 1969. I was in high school and I remember distinctly that the Queen had to take some official action to install him as PoW. There was a big ceremony marking the occasion. And, there was no previous PoW who ascended to the throne, as Charles has now done.

According to Wikipedia, there is a formal investiture that happens, similar to a scaled-down coronation.

So, are the news media simply jumping the gun in referring to William as PoW.

All that being said, I have no doubt that the King will invest William as PoW when a suitable period of mourning has passed.

ETA. Never mind. I read the Wikipedia article more fully and it said that William was made PoW on Sept. 9, the day after the Queen died. Perhaps there will a formal investiture ceremony later. I wonder why Charles had to wait until he was 21.

[RTH10260]

ETA. Never mind. I read the Wikipedia article more fully and it said that William was made PoW on Sept. 9, the day after the Queen died. Perhaps there will a formal investiture ceremony later. I wonder why Charles had to wait until he was 21.

Coming of age. Else the Crown would have had to nominate a representative. It's not just the title. Along goes a small fortune that needs to be managed.

[much ado]

ETA: Sorry, missed your ETA up there...

ETA. Never mind. I read the Wikipedia article more fully and it said that William was made PoW on Sept. 9, the day after the Queen died. Perhaps there will a formal investiture ceremony later. I wonder why Charles had to wait until he was 21.

King Charles has formally declared William to be the new Prince of Wales.

Prince William and Kate Middleton Are Officially Prince and Princess of Wales

In his first official speech as monarch, King Charles III created a new Prince and Princess of Wales.

Kate Middleton and Prince William are now officially Prince and Princess of Wales. In his first speech as British monarch, King Charles III bestowed the title of Prince of Wales on his son, Prince William, and Princess of Wales on his daughter-in-law, Kate Middleton.

"As my Heir, William now assumes the Scottish titles which have meant so much to me. He succeeds me as Duke of Cornwall and takes on the responsibilities for the Duchy of Cornwall which I have undertaken for more than five decades," the King said.

He continued, "Today, I am proud to create him Prince of Wales, Tywysog Cymru, the country whose title I have been so greatly privileged to bear during so much of my life and duty. With Catherine beside him, our new Prince and Princess of Wales will, I know, continue to inspire and lead our national conversations, helping to bring the marginal to the centre ground where vital help can be given."

The Prince of Wales is not a title that William automatically inherited, unlike the Duke of Cornwall. Charles took the title Prince of Wales very seriously over the course of his tenure, including making a home in Wales, and advocating for Welsh issues. Queen Elizabeth announced her intention to make Charles Prince of Wales in 1958, and his investiture ceremony took place in 1969. He was the longest-serving Prince of Wales in history.

[Gregg]

I have a question.

Many news outlets have been referring to William as the Prince of Wales.

Does he automatically become Prince of Wales when the previous PoW ascends to the throne. I always thought that it took a royal proclamation, or at least the issuing of letters patents, as the monarch does when granting a member of the royal family the honorific "His/her Royal Highness".

I remember that Prince (now King) Charles did not become PoW until 1969. I was in high school and I remember distinctly that the Queen had to take some official action to install him as PoW. There was a big ceremony marking the occasion. And, there was no previous PoW who ascended to the throne, as Charles has now done.

According to Wikipedia, there is a formal investiture that happens, similar to a scaled-down coronation.

So, are the news media simply jumping the gun in referring to William as PoW.

All that being said, I have no doubt that the King will invest William as PoW when a suitable period of mourning has passed.

ETA. Never mind. I read the Wikipedia article more fully and it said that William was made PoW on Sept. 9, the day after the Queen died. Perhaps there will a formal investiture ceremony later. I wonder why Charles had to wait until he was 21.

No, William did not automatically become Prince of Wales, he was "Created" Prince of Wales by King Charles last week but the King did not need to do that right away, he just did. Titles of inherited nobility happen different ways, and William has a slew of titles, some he got automatically when the Queen died (and he became among others Duke of Cornwall as heir to the throne) and others the Monarch "Creates" which involves Letters Patent (a thing only the King can do) and that is how he became Prince of Wales. Being Created Prince of Wales is different than being Invested as Prince of Wales, which as you said is akin to a Coronation, but of someone not the Monarch. (Dukes and Earls can also be invested in their Titles)

Your memory of Charles becoming PoW in 1969 is confused, Prince Charles was Created Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester by letters patent on 26 July 1958, but the official investiture was not held until 1 July 1969. His Investiture was held off until he completed college and also a year of language training so he could give his speech in Welsh, the only Prince of Wales to ever do so.

William was Created Prince of Wales immediately because of his age, he is not a child, and will be invested into the Title sometime after Charles' Coronation. Probably, there is talk in Wales ditching the whole thing, they don't mind Wills so much but the whole "Prince of Wales" thing is after all a punishment for pissing off Edward I 700 years ago and for some reason they think they've done the time for that. We will see.

[raison de arizona]

Off Topic

Wow, Charles' b-day is only 2 days (and 16 years) ahead of mine

My wife is November 12th, and my mother was the 13th. She was actually born on Friday, the 13th, making Friday the 13ths lucky days in our household.

[much ado]

Off Topic

Wow, Charles' b-day is only 2 days (and 16 years) ahead of mine

My wife is November 12th, and my mother was the 13th. She was actually born on Friday, the 13th, making Friday the 13ths lucky days in our household.

Off Topic

My wife and I were married on Friday, November 13th in St. John's, Newfoundland. My wife considers any Friday the 13th our anniversary.
I guess we eloped.

[Mr brolin]

It's interesting how some of the newspapers on both sides of the pond (NY Times and Guardian as examples) just can't help themselves and are already reverting to type with snide comments about the King and Royal Family.

Typical ones both have jumped on are finances with much clutching of handkerchiefs and "How could this be!" isms

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ing-eating

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... d-the-knee

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/13/worl ... ealth.html

In a nutshell it reflects how journalists seem more interested in their personal opinions and prejudices, ridiculous equivalences presented as argument and rather less facts and evidence

As an example, on the above..... "OMG When the Queen died and Charles became King the Duchy of Cornwall passed to William WTHOUT INHERITANCE TAX!!!!" ..... "OMG the UK government still pays the CIVIL LIST!!!" (the Civil List (now Sovereign Grant) being the grant the government pays for The Firm to do its duties various as Sovereign, Head of State and their working delegates)

What is conveniently glossed over is that unlike corporations and companies (most of which the Duchy of Cornwall is) it actually pays actual tax, unlike Ohhhh, I don't know..... Amazon, Facebook, Google etc.

Then there is the minor fact that in exchange for the Sovereign Grant the Crown handed over to the Government the massive assets, revenues and rights of the Crown Estate. A property portfolio of about 15 billion GBP, rights to more than half the UK's foreshore, virtually all of the UK's seabed from mean low water to the 12-nautical-mile as well as Sovereign rights of the UK in the seabed and its resources vested by the Continental Shelf Act 1964

Multi Billions in exchange for ...... 86 million this year which also goes to the maintenance of the palaces various....All of which are property of the Crown NOT the Royal Family.

Ahh, they then may say but what about security, police, stuff like that....... I mean "WHY am I paying for this funeral and stuff". Conveniently forgetting that the same and waaaaay larger costs are paid out by other G7 countries for the security etc of THEIR heads of state......

And all before the old gal is even in the ground.

[Sam the Centipede]

[Probably, there is talk in Wales ditching the whole thing, they don't mind Wills so much but the whole "Prince of Wales" thing is after all a punishment for pissing off Edward I 700 years ago and for some reason they think they've done the time for that. We will see.

Certainly there is talk from Plaid Cymru, the Welsh nationalist party, both for patriotic reasons and because they are on the left wing of mainstream British politics, so naturally republican (not in the USA party sense!). Their leader in the Senedd (the parliament of Wales) grumbled about Wales having no say in the creation of a new Prince.

Further to your point about Edward I etc.: medieval Wales was a loose collection of fiefdoms, each ruled by a Prince, some now acknowledged in the names of some modern countries: Gwynedd, Powys, etc. There has never been (correct me if I'm wrong!) a King of Wales or of parts of it. The princes of Wales quarreled but sometimes cooperated against their common enemy, the English, and near the end a native Prince of Wales emerged as the most powerful of those princes (Llywelyn, possibly others, I don't recall, I can't recall whether revolutionary leader Owain Glyndwr claimed the title).

So the current monarchy's Prince of Wales title is, as Gregg states, one imposed on Wales and it's people by an external power, not one by and for Wales.

A smaller version of Queen Victoria's title of Empress of India.

[busterbunker]

[Luke]

If you are having trouble remembering all the English Kings and Queens here’s a little ditty to sing along to..



Needs updating to include Charley 3..

That was great, thanks, Dave! Have been watching The Chasers on ITV, a super fun trivia show. Lots of monarch questions, that video helps a lot. One of the Chasers is Anne Hagerty, known as The Governess or "Frosty Knickers" ... we've tweeted to each other several times, she's great fun. You have to be in the UK to see it or use a VPN, link is (to one of the episodes) https://www.itv.com/hub/the-chase/1a7842a1379. I remember more British history than I thought though in some cases just guess the only answer I recognize... often turns out to be right, it's funny.

[Luke]

We need to set up a pool.

A few things I would assume. It will be on a Monday. It's a state holiday and people are gonna expect it to be a working day they will get off (with pay) or they'll feel cheated. It won't be in the middle of a week. It'll be when the weather is nice, they'll want to make it attractive for as many people as possible to be in London for the actual coronation and the surrounding events. It's also likely to be the culmination a very long weekend of events, probably starting with Receptions and stuff on Thursday night and going all the way through putting the crown on Charlie's noggin at 3 PM on Monday.

I am gonna change my mind and say April or May, I think doing it in August will be too hot for Brits and September is back to school season which is a bigger deal than you'd think.

My bet, April 24th, subject to change, but as good a place to aim as any.

My Dad and King Charles have the same birthday, not sure if he knows but will tell him later

Queen Elizabeth's coronation was June 2, 1953. In several documentaries, they talked about that date because it was the beginning of the social season and before people left the city. So the coronation was another social function for the upper class. No reason it has to be June, but seems the tradition of things is being followed so early June wouldn't surprise me. Of course, it also has to match the 699th's schedule for security reasons. Lt Col Root Beer and Lt Biscuit have to be fitted for the royal costumes (can't wait to see them) etc. It's possible the Palace and the 699th have already agreed on April 24, but of course the 699th wouldn't comment. Scores of Dachshunds have been spotted around the royal events but no one has taken responsibility or been willing to discuss it.

[keith]

Oh! I got tricked by the date li e and I'm usually careful about that.

Aussies say she was crowned on June 3, but it would have been June 2 on top on the Stone of Scone.

Anyway, that's my bet.

[RTH10260]

(no, not about Brexit)

Made in France: the only recording of God Save the King to be had
Parisian opera singer’s 2017 version corners the market with hundreds of thousands of plays online

Jim Waterson Media editor
Wed 14 Sep 2022 18.55 BST

If you want to play a recording of the UK’s revamped national anthem then you will probably have to rely on an unlikely source: a French opera singer.

The accession of Charles III has made recordings of God Save the Queen redundant, with the official lyrics updated to reflect the fact that a man is on the throne and pay tribute to a “gracious King”.

Yet because Queen Elizabeth II became monarch in 1952 there has been little or no reason for anyone to release a version of God Save the King for the last 70 years. A handful of older recordings were made, but they used more basic technology with old-style gramophone records in mind.

The only high-quality version of the current British national anthem easily available on streaming services such as Spotify is by Arnaud Kientz, 51, an opera singer and teacher from Paris.

He said he made his version in 2017 while recording other anthems. “I’m an opera singer and I was asked to record La Marseillaise,” he said. “Maybe the only anthems more famous in the world are God Save the Queen and the American one. The year after they asked me to record God Save the Queen – and God Save the King.”

Kientz said there was no particular plan to have a version ready for Charles’s accession. “We weren’t thinking at all about the Queen’s death and we are very sorry about that, all the world is,” he said. “The woman was so important in our life.”

Kientz’s recording of God Save the King had been largely ignored, but it has recently been played hundreds of thousands of times as people look for a version with the correct words. Many public events simply play the unchanged instrumental version, but for now it is a Frenchman who has the market for the lyrical version of the British national anthem to himself.



https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... -to-be-had

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

(no, not about Brexit)

Made in France: the only recording of God Save the King to be had
Parisian opera singer’s 2017 version corners the market with hundreds of thousands of plays online

Jim Waterson Media editor
Wed 14 Sep 2022 18.55 BST

If you want to play a recording of the UK’s revamped national anthem then you will probably have to rely on an unlikely source: a French opera singer.

The accession of Charles III has made recordings of God Save the Queen redundant, with the official lyrics updated to reflect the fact that a man is on the throne and pay tribute to a “gracious King”.

Yet because Queen Elizabeth II became monarch in 1952 there has been little or no reason for anyone to release a version of God Save the King for the last 70 years. A handful of older recordings were made, but they used more basic technology with old-style gramophone records in mind.

The only high-quality version of the current British national anthem easily available on streaming services such as Spotify is by Arnaud Kientz, 51, an opera singer and teacher from Paris.

He said he made his version in 2017 while recording other anthems. “I’m an opera singer and I was asked to record La Marseillaise,” he said. “Maybe the only anthems more famous in the world are God Save the Queen and the American one. The year after they asked me to record God Save the Queen – and God Save the King.”

Kientz said there was no particular plan to have a version ready for Charles’s accession. “We weren’t thinking at all about the Queen’s death and we are very sorry about that, all the world is,” he said. “The woman was so important in our life.”

Kientz’s recording of God Save the King had been largely ignored, but it has recently been played hundreds of thousands of times as people look for a version with the correct words. Many public events simply play the unchanged instrumental version, but for now it is a Frenchman who has the market for the lyrical version of the British national anthem to himself.



https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... -to-be-had

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

RTH: but for now it is a Frenchman who has the market for the lyrical version of the British national anthem to himself.

Is this the definition of irony?

[RTH10260]

RTH: but for now it is a Frenchman who has the market for the lyrical version of the British national anthem to himself.

Is this the definition of irony?

A millenium ago, the French did reign Britain with a row of Kings