Assault on the Capitol (DC)

[sugar magnolia]

This isn’t a trial, though, is it?

Yes, it is.

I thought the whole purpose of a plea deal was to avoid a trial? Or is any proceeding considered a "trial" in this context?

[Maybenaut]

This isn’t a trial, though, is it?

Yes, it is.

I thought the whole purpose of a plea deal was to avoid a trial? Or is any proceeding considered a "trial" in this context?

We shouldn’t get hung up on the word “trial.” The guilty plea proceedings are done in open court. That means open to the public.

Edit: I should add: In my world, trial is all-encompassing, to include arraignment, motions practice, guilty pleas or trial on the merits, and sentencing.

“Trial” also has a specific meaning in some circumstances, and might be different for each. But I think of a guilty plea as a trial because it is where the defendant’s guilt is adjudicated.

[slq]

To me, the mesh mask debacle is the result of the social media echo chamber. If you post something snarky and rude and people applaud you, it's all good. Contempt of court be damned. But, oh! The judge saw what I did and cared! Why!?!?

Edit: Typo, clarity

[LM K]

Cancer doesn't stop him from rioting in DC, but it does limit his ability to spend time in jail.

Got it. I had no idea cancer was selective like that. Such an insidious disease.

And, Worrell is all upset about getting covid in jail. He didn't appear concerned about covid on Jan 6, even though he had cancer.

Damn government!

*Jails and prisons are nightmares for those with chronic illnesses. Significant reform is critical. Under covid, I'd like to see all non-violent inmates released to some form of safer environments.

Worrell's argument is that he shouldn't face pre-trial consequences for his violent actions on Jan 6 because he's sick. I don't know enough about him to know if he should, in my opinion, continue being detained at this time. But the evidence that he attacked a law enforcement office certainly makes pre-trial detention quite reasonable.

It's possible that Worrell participated on Jan 6 knowing that he'd never see trial.

[sterngard friegen]

I believe a lot of these deluded cult members stormed the Capitol on January 6 thinking there would be no serious consequences because their cult leader would pardon them. If the cult leader could shoot someone on 5th Avenue without consequence what's a few beaten cops at the Capitol?

[Slim Cognito]

I think these yahoos stormed the Capitol never dreaming they'd be arrested. Hell, they probably thought trump would give them medals for saving the election.

[fierceredpanda]

"It's our house." "We pay your salary." These were things people said on 1/6.

They think they own it.

[neonzx]

"It's our house." "We pay your salary." These were things people said on 1/6.

They think they own it.

Technically, we ( the collective "we" ) do own it, but there is no covenant granting individuals or groups access on demand.

[noblepa]

"It's our house." "We pay your salary." These were things people said on 1/6.

They think they own it.

This is the same nonsense that some people will try when a cop pulls them over for speeding.

[northland10]

"It's our house." "We pay your salary." These were things people said on 1/6.

They think they own it.

This is the same nonsense that some people will try when a cop pulls them over for speeding.

Birthers liked to use the "we're your boss" phrases to state that various government people had to do their bidding and also that they could, individually, fire the President. In most businesses or other organizations, an individual cannot fire the chief executive, only the board, collectively. These folks don't get that. Granted, in some organizations, a single person may control enough board seats to make it happen, but it is still, officially, the board.

Birthers, Poots, and insurrections do not hold enough board seats in America.

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

I believe a lot of these deluded cult members stormed the Capitol on January 6 thinking there would be no serious consequences because their cult leader would pardon them. If the cult leader could shoot someone on 5th Avenue without consequence what's a few beaten cops at the Capitol?

[noblepa]

I believe a lot of these deluded cult members stormed the Capitol on January 6 thinking there would be no serious consequences because their cult leader would pardon them. If the cult leader could shoot someone on 5th Avenue without consequence what's a few beaten cops at the Capitol?

I seriously doubt that any of them gave even a passing thought to potential consequences. The were on a glorious mission, led by their golden-haired, orange-skinned demi-god.

It was only after the police regained some semblance of control and they were herded out of the building and they saw the way it was being covered on the news, that the "Oh shit, I'm in trouble" realization set in for some (not all) of them.

BTW, any thoughts on how many of the 400 or so that have been charged will plead guilty and how many will go to trial and roll the dice? I suspect that a lot of them will plead guilty, if only to reduce the prison time they have to serve. A few diehards will "fight the system" and try to use the "stolen election" as their defense in court, but not many. I think that most will chicken out and beg for mercy. I'm not inclined to be merciful.

[Maybenaut]

I believe a lot of these deluded cult members stormed the Capitol on January 6 thinking there would be no serious consequences because their cult leader would pardon them. If the cult leader could shoot someone on 5th Avenue without consequence what's a few beaten cops at the Capitol?

I seriously doubt that any of them gave even a passing thought to potential consequences. The were on a glorious mission, led by their golden-haired, orange-skinned demi-god.

It was only after the police regained some semblance of control and they were herded out of the building and they saw the way it was being covered on the news, that the "Oh shit, I'm in trouble" realization set in for some (not all) of them.

BTW, any thoughts on how many of the 400 or so that have been charged will plead guilty and how many will go to trial and roll the dice? I suspect that a lot of them will plead guilty, if only to reduce the prison time they have to serve. A few diehards will "fight the system" and try to use the "stolen election" as their defense in court, but not many. I think that most will chicken out and beg for mercy. I'm not inclined to be merciful.

I think almost all of them will plead guilty.

[Jim]

Judge to revoke bail for Proud Boy leaders involved in Capitol riot

Kelly said new evidence presented by prosecutors showing Nordean and Biggs’ men’s central role in orchestrating the incursion was a decisive factor in his ruling. He delivered a painstaking retelling of the case against the two men, reciting their profanity-laden social media posts vowing violence against lawmakers and others preparing to certify the results of the 2020 election, as well as their private communications revealed by prosecutors as the investigation unfolded.

Prosecutors say Nordean took on an expanded leadership role in the group on Jan. 4, after the Proud Boys’ national leader Enrique Tarrio was arrested upon arrival in Washington, D.C. on charges stemming from violence at an earlier pro-Trump protest. They say he helped craft the group’s tactical strategy for Jan. 6, encouraging them to divide into smaller groups and overwhelm outmatched Capitol Police. Prosecutors also spelled out efforts by the group to cover their tracks after Tarrio’s arrest, dropping earlier private messaging channels and opening up new ones.

Nordean and Biggs, according to prosecutors, are also on the hook for significant damage to the Capitol caused by fellow Proud Boy Dominic Pezzola, who smashed a window with a riot shield early in the siege. Pezzola’s action, a central feature of many of the Capitol prosecutions, led to one of the earliest breaches of the Capitol.

[northland10]

Judge to revoke bail for Proud Boy leaders involved in Capitol riot

Kelly said new evidence presented by prosecutors showing Nordean and Biggs’ men’s central role in orchestrating the incursion was a decisive factor in his ruling. He delivered a painstaking retelling of the case against the two men, reciting their profanity-laden social media posts vowing violence against lawmakers and others preparing to certify the results of the 2020 election, as well as their private communications revealed by prosecutors as the investigation unfolded.

Prosecutors say Nordean took on an expanded leadership role in the group on Jan. 4, after the Proud Boys’ national leader Enrique Tarrio was arrested upon arrival in Washington, D.C. on charges stemming from violence at an earlier pro-Trump protest. They say he helped craft the group’s tactical strategy for Jan. 6, encouraging them to divide into smaller groups and overwhelm outmatched Capitol Police. Prosecutors also spelled out efforts by the group to cover their tracks after Tarrio’s arrest, dropping earlier private messaging channels and opening up new ones.

Nordean and Biggs, according to prosecutors, are also on the hook for significant damage to the Capitol caused by fellow Proud Boy Dominic Pezzola, who smashed a window with a riot shield early in the siege. Pezzola’s action, a central feature of many of the Capitol prosecutions, led to one of the earliest breaches of the Capitol.

This is a big reason why I don't mind the prosecutors slapping the hand of some of the lower-level ones. The Proud Boys and the Oathkeepers are the two largest, violence-focused, terrorist groups. It's long past time to drive a stake through the heart of their sedition. Sorry Oathkeepers, but your claim to uphold your oath to the Constitution was laid bare on January 6th (not like most of us already realized they were a sham).

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

Judge Timothy Kelly, who revoked bail, is a Trump appointee.

From the same Politico article:

During his lengthy ruling, Kelly joined a chorus of judges who have criticized the former acting U.S. Attorney in Washington — Michael Sherwin — over an interview last month in which he said he believed the evidence in the Capitol riot cases justified sedition charges that have not yet been filed.

“Obviously, this was a highly unprofessional interview that Mr. Sherwin gave,” Kelly said. He noted that the comments by Sherwin, who was replaced last month as head of the Capitol riot probe, have been referred to Justice’s Office of Professional Responsibility for investigation.

“I am going to warn all sides here that comments that violate the local rules of this court — I’m certainly not going to put up with anything like that from the attorneys who have entered their appearance in this case from this point forward,” the judge added.

[filly]

WAPO is reporting that DC medical examiner says Officer Sicknick died of”natural causes” I.i. two strokes!

[Frater I*I]

WAPO is reporting that DC medical examiner says Officer Sicknick died of”natural causes” I.i. two strokes!

[expletive deleted] you've got to be [expletive deleted] [expletive deleted] kidding me [expletive deleted].

[Slim Cognito]

Stroke as in couldn't get oxygen to his brain because of a violent reaction to bear spray? What was the mechanism that caused the stroke?

That's like saying a car crashed because it hit a wall. Why did it hit the wall?

[filly]

Stroke as in couldn't get oxygen to his brain because of a violent reaction to bear spray? What was the mechanism that caused the stroke?

That's like saying a car crashed because it hit a wall. Why did it hit the wall?

A blood clot. Ironic that he happened to have a blood clot resulting in two strokes after doing battle with the Seditionists. Can't help but make the parallels to the George Floyd case.

[sugar magnolia]

Stroke as in couldn't get oxygen to his brain because of a violent reaction to bear spray? What was the mechanism that caused the stroke?

That's like saying a car crashed because it hit a wall. Why did it hit the wall?

A blood clot. Ironic that he happened to have a blood clot resulting in two strokes after doing battle with the Seditionists. Can't help but make the parallels to the George Floyd case.

Except they can find a blood clot during an autopsy.

[roadscholar]

He did also cite the stress of the riot as a contributing factor. But Sicknick died the next day, so I’m guessing that means he had to say “natural causes.”

[filly]

Stroke as in couldn't get oxygen to his brain because of a violent reaction to bear spray? What was the mechanism that caused the stroke?

That's like saying a car crashed because it hit a wall. Why did it hit the wall?

A blood clot. Ironic that he happened to have a blood clot resulting in two strokes after doing battle with the Seditionists. Can't help but make the parallels to the George Floyd case.

Except they can find a blood clot during an autopsy.

I don't think we disagree. I just said it was ironic.

[Lani]

OAN Fires Producer Who Confessed Network Staffers Didn’t Believe Election Lies
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/oan-fires-p ... tion-lies/

The Times story interviewed 18 current and former employees of OAN that condemned the network’s dedication to misinformation. One former producer at the network said more than a dozen staffers left after the Jan. 6 attack, in which a horde of Trump supporters ransacked the Capitol building because they believed the 2020 election was fraudulent.

While most spoke on condition of anonymity, Golingan gave an on the record interview.

Golingan also said that he had been reprimanded by OAN’s news director for referring to Joe Biden as “president” since the inauguration.

From the Times and quoted in the article:

He added that he and others at OAN disagreed with much of the channel’s coverage. “The majority of people did not believe the voter fraud claims being run on the air,” Mr. Golingan said in an interview, referring to his colleagues.

He recalled seeing a photo of someone in the Capitol mob holding a flag emblazoned with the OAN logo. “I was like, OK, that’s not good,” Mr. Golingan said. “That’s what happens when people listen to us.”

[bob]