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The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#51

Post by Foggy »

"Sentience is the next phase of universal organisation. First came primitive stars to turn simple molecules into complex ones, then came more complex stars with planetary systems, then came life, and finally sentience — first in primitive organic form, then advanced synthetic form." - Joel Shepherd
In other words, there's a higher level of sentience than our pitiful and primitive "organic" sentience, and that's ... the sentience of machines.

Which, as you know, there are many thousands of sentient organic beings right here on this planet who are working feverishly to develop artificial intelligence, also known as machine-based sentience.

So when we do find intelligent life on other planets, it may be a race - or a group of races - of fully sentient machines, whose intelligence might eclipse ours in unknown ways. And since they don't reproduce organically, there might could be a lot more of them than there are of us.

:shock:
Edit: And I suppose the next question would be, among a race of sentient machines, what religion would they practice? :o
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#52

Post by pipistrelle »

Foggy wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:19 am
"Sentience is the next phase of universal organisation. First came primitive stars to turn simple molecules into complex ones, then came more complex stars with planetary systems, then came life, and finally sentience — first in primitive organic form, then advanced synthetic form." - Joel Shepherd
In other words, there's a higher level of sentience than our pitiful and primitive "organic" sentience, and that's ... the sentience of machines.

Which, as you know, there are many thousands of sentient organic beings right here on this planet who are working feverishly to develop artificial intelligence, also known as machine-based sentience.

So when we do find intelligent life on other planets, it may be a race - or a group of races - of fully sentient machines, whose intelligence might eclipse ours in unknown ways. And since they don't reproduce organically, there might could be a lot more of them than there are of us. :shock:
Coincidentally, I just watched The Science of Doctor Who.
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#53

Post by Foggy »

Here's where I see a contradiction - I've always been taught that the ultimate machine has no moving parts, because friction and stuff. Moving parts require lubrication, and they break.

So maybe a sentient machine would just kinda sit there maybe.

Lots of fun at parties.

:groupdance:

:whisper: I don't know if those are sentient M&Ms.
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#54

Post by RTH10260 »

Foggy wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:19 am
"Sentience is the next phase of universal organisation. First came primitive stars to turn simple molecules into complex ones, then came more complex stars with planetary systems, then came life, and finally sentience — first in primitive organic form, then advanced synthetic form." - Joel Shepherd
► Show Spoiler
:shock:
Edit: And I suppose the next question would be, among a race of sentient machines, what religion would they practice? :o
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#55

Post by northland10 »

Foggy wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:38 am Here's where I see a contradiction - I've always been taught that the ultimate machine has no moving parts, because friction and stuff. Moving parts require lubrication, and they break.

So maybe a sentient machine would just kinda sit there maybe.

Lots of fun at parties.

:groupdance:

:whisper: I don't know if those are sentient M&Ms.
Stephen Hawking would just sit there at parties. He had friends who would tell him he needs to mingle more (mingle in a way that was possible for him, of course) though they knew he was having a great time. He was sitting in the corner thinking physics. He was in his happy place.
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#56

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

When quoting C. S. Lewis, one must keep in mind that many of his works preceded his relationship and marriage to a divorcee which challenged his previous proselytizing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joy_Davidman
While an atheist and after becoming a member of the American Communist Party, she met and married her first husband and father of her two sons, William Lindsay Gresham, in 1942. After a troubled marriage, and following her conversion to Christianity, they divorced and she left America to travel to England with her sons.

Davidman published her best-known work, Smoke on the Mountain: An Interpretation of the Ten Commandments, in 1954 with a preface by C. S. Lewis. Lewis influenced her work and conversion and became her second husband after her permanent relocation to England in 1956. She died from metastatic carcinoma involving the bones in 1960.

The relationship that developed between Davidman and Lewis has been featured in a television BBC film, a stage play, and a theatrical film named Shadowlands. Lewis published A Grief Observed under a pseudonym in 1961, from notebooks he kept after his wife's death revealing his immense grief and a period of questioning God.
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#57

Post by RTH10260 »

Foggy wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:38 am Here's where I see a contradiction - I've always been taught that the ultimate machine has no moving parts, because friction and stuff. Moving parts require lubrication, and they break.

So maybe a sentient machine would just kinda sit there maybe.

Lots of fun at parties.

:groupdance:

:whisper: I don't know if those are sentient M&Ms.
That's why SciFi (or is it horror) films suggest a slimy gooy substance penetrating the world :lol:
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#58

Post by realist »

RTH10260 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:56 am
Foggy wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:38 am Here's where I see a contradiction - I've always been taught that the ultimate machine has no moving parts, because friction and stuff. Moving parts require lubrication, and they break.

So maybe a sentient machine would just kinda sit there maybe.

Lots of fun at parties.

:groupdance:

:whisper: I don't know if those are sentient M&Ms.
That's why SciFi (or is it horror) films suggest a slimy gooy substance penetrating the world :lol:
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#59

Post by Foggy »

Harrumph! Harrumph, I say! :oldman: Fiddlesticks and darnation!

We're talking about sentient life.

The Blob is off-topic. :fingerwag:

:lol:
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#60

Post by realist »

Foggy wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:58 am Harrumph! Harrumph, I say! :oldman: Fiddlesticks and darnation!

We're talking about sentient life.

The Blob is off-topic. :fingerwag:

:lol:
yabut, RTH stated That's why SciFi (or is it horror) films suggest a slimy gooy substance penetrating the world :lol: so that was merely showing an example of same.

And The Blob was sentient. It didn't just willy-nilly go down the street to the movie theater. :fingerwag:
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#61

Post by RTH10260 »

:thumbsup: :rotflmao:
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#62

Post by humblescribe »

realist wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:02 pm
Foggy wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:58 am Harrumph! Harrumph, I say! :oldman: Fiddlesticks and darnation!

We're talking about sentient life.

The Blob is off-topic. :fingerwag:

:lol:
yabut, RTH stated That's why SciFi (or is it horror) films suggest a slimy gooy substance penetrating the world :lol: so that was merely showing an example of same.

And The Blob was sentient. It didn't just willy-nilly go down the street to the movie theater. :fingerwag:
Didn't the Air Force deposit The Blob in the arctic to be frozen solid for all eternity? If I recall, the movie ended with a giant question mark.

Methinks that with climate change and the gradual thawing of the arctic that we may yet again be subjected to this menace. :shh:
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#63

Post by northland10 »

realist wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:02 pm
Foggy wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:58 am Harrumph! Harrumph, I say! :oldman: Fiddlesticks and darnation!

We're talking about sentient life.

The Blob is off-topic. :fingerwag:

:lol:
yabut, RTH stated That's why SciFi (or is it horror) films suggest a slimy gooy substance penetrating the world :lol: so that was merely showing an example of same.

And The Blob was sentient. It didn't just willy-nilly go down the street to the movie theater. :fingerwag:
A quick scan through those humans discussed on TFB shows that the definition of "sentient life" here on earth is a very low bar. The blob more than qualifies. I render a full apology to blobs for my callous defamation of them by comparing their intelligence to poots.
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#64

Post by Foggy »

Yeah well The Blob is clearly an organic alien from another planet, sentient or not, moving parts or not, opposing thumbs or not. One has to imagine that the flight controls on their spacecraft are simple to operate, or it might have been really difficult to drive travel here.

But that's not sentient machine life. Let's not get distracted, because that's the real threat. Freakin' sentient machines don't even care that they can't go faster than the speed of light. They don't need gravity. They don't need food and water, or oxygen, or heat. They just get on a spaceship that's just a big engine and if it takes centuries to get anywhere, well they can play canasta with each other on the trip.
Edit: If it takes 4,000 years to travel to another planet, then many generations of organics will have to survive before the trip is complete. And organics are messy. Whereas if sentient machines take 4,000 years to go somewhere, it's the same people who arrive at the destination.
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#65

Post by Suranis »

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:17 am The relationship that developed between Davidman and Lewis has been featured in a television BBC film, a stage play, and a theatrical film named Shadowlands.
I've seen Shadowlands. Good movie if you haven't seen it.
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#66

Post by Sam the Centipede »

On my Fogbog unread forums page, this one:
The case for intelligent life on other planets ...
immediately above:
GIL: Klayman

I don't know whether that juxtaposition should induce hope or despair.
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#67

Post by humblescribe »

Foggy wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:19 am Yeah well The Blob is clearly an organic alien from another planet, sentient or not, moving parts or not, opposing thumbs or not. One has to imagine that the flight controls on their spacecraft are simple to operate, or it might have been really difficult to drive travel here.

But that's not sentient machine life. Let's not get distracted, because that's the real threat. Freakin' sentient machines don't even care that they can't go faster than the speed of light. They don't need gravity. They don't need food and water, or oxygen, or heat. They just get on a spaceship that's just a big engine and if it takes centuries to get anywhere, well they can play canasta with each other on the trip.
Edit: If it takes 4,000 years to travel to another planet, then many generations of organics will have to survive before the trip is complete. And organics are messy. Whereas if sentient machines take 4,000 years to go somewhere, it's the same people who arrive at the destination.
Then, how about HAL?

"You can trust me, Foggy. I mean no harm, Foggy. And, by the way, I am going out concealed, so that is another 100 points."
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#68

Post by Foggy »

HAL turned out not to be as smart as he thought he was, remember?

The organics got him. My mind is going. I can feel it.

But he was a primitive soul, about as sentient as my Alexa device. Programmed to hold a simple conversation with access to some relevant facts, ho hum. They never should have trusted him with any controls, knobs, or dials.

When real machine-based sentients come along, they'll make the Terminator look like a moron. :daydreaming:
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#69

Post by humblescribe »

Oh yes, but that was 1965ish.

Lotsa things have changed in the past five-six decades. I mean I search for vegetable seed online, and the next thing I know, I have ads embedded in other websites for vegetable seed. Or humblewife looks for curtain fabric and voila! enter your discount code to save 15% at My Curtains.com when she is perusing her garden blog.

And Alexa is straight-out creepy.

:biggrin:
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#70

Post by Foggy »

Oh no, I love Alexa. She does math. She has a lot of facts. She reminds me to move a load from the washer to the dryer. She does timers and alarms and bird calls. My kittehs like bird calls.

She's limited, but I limit what I tell her to do.
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#71

Post by realist »

Foggy wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:39 pm HAL turned out not to be as smart as he thought he was, remember?

The organics got him. My mind is going. I can feel it.

But he was a primitive soul, about as sentient as my Alexa device. Programmed to hold a simple conversation with access to some relevant facts, ho hum. They never should have trusted him with any controls, knobs, or dials.

When real machine-based sentients come along, they'll make the Terminator look like a moron. :daydreaming:
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#72

Post by keith »

Has everybody heard about the bird?
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#73

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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#74

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

Isn't Fogbow another planet? Clearly there is intelligent life here!
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Re: The case for intelligent life on other planets ...

#75

Post by RTH10260 »

Are we The Experiment, and MAGA is the control group ? :cantlook: :doh:
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